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Callahan's Agent Thinking Offer Sheet; Gap in Negotiations; Pot Shot at Richards

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Old
06-30-2011, 08:27 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by thewaitingisover View Post
8 years, around $40 mil sounds good to me. He needs to stay here, everybody including Glen Sather knows that. If Sather doesn't get Cally signed he knows there will be millions of people calling for his head.
$5 million per year? You're joking with this right?

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06-30-2011, 08:28 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by thewaitingisover View Post
8 years, around $40 mil sounds good to me. He needs to stay here, everybody including Glen Sather knows that. If Sather doesn't get Cally signed he knows there will be millions of people calling for his head.
That would be a terrible deal for the team...

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06-30-2011, 08:35 PM
  #128
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6 years 26 million is what I think he'll get.

Sather will be willing to overpay to keep him around for half a decade.

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06-30-2011, 08:49 PM
  #129
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Ehrhoff just got 10 years 40 mil. Give Cally the same deal. Done and done.

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06-30-2011, 09:15 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Ehrhoff just got 10 years 40 mil. Give Cally the same deal. Done and done.
Would love it if we could lock him for that, but Erhoff's ails out from ages 33-38. cally's would tail out during the prime of his career, which i'm sure he has no interest in.

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06-30-2011, 09:18 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Would love it if we could lock him for that, but Erhoff's ails out from ages 33-38. cally's would tail out during the prime of his career, which i'm sure he has no interest in.
Offer him the max for a few years and then have it decrease. Pay him till he's 40.

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06-30-2011, 09:23 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Offer him the max for a few years and then have it decrease. Pay him till he's 40.
I love callahan just as much as the next guy but signing him to any contract that would take him to anywhere between age 36-40 would be asinine. The guy plays the same type of game that Drury used to. Look how that played out for drury, the guy broke down earlier than expected. Dont be shocked if the same thing happens to callahan. Sign Callahan, but like someone else stated dont let your love for him cloud your reasoning.

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06-30-2011, 09:34 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by SML View Post
I really like Callahan, but I will not let my emotions cloud my reason. He is not a first line player. We cannot pay him like one. If some team comes in and wants to overpay him, I would cut ties with him in a second. It sucks, but it's the reality of the game now. Getting value for your cap space is almost more important than getting production on the ice. We just saw what happens when you pay a guy for qualities like "leadership". Eventually you wind up paying for only that. Callahan plays a reckless style physically. I don't think he's going to be a guy who plays at this level late into his thirties. I can accept paying him a little too much, but a I cannot accept paying him for too long. I think he's going to go the way of Adam Graves, who left it all on the ice, but ran out of "it" early. I don't want to see him getting one of these ridiculous 10 year deals. And for the love of God, can we please make it tail off at the end the way everyone else does instead of these assinine deals where the guy makes the same outrageous salary from beginning to end?
That's my mantra. Player value/importance to a team is directly tied to his cap hit. Value can swing different directions based on a player's salary, in the salary cap world. A player like Wolski at $3.8 mil may be a bit of a cap headache at times, but a player like Wolski at a $1.75 mil would be considered a 'good value' addition to your roster.

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06-30-2011, 09:48 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by SML View Post
I really like Callahan, but I will not let my emotions cloud my reason. He is not a first line player. We cannot pay him like one. If some team comes in and wants to overpay him, I would cut ties with him in a second. It sucks, but it's the reality of the game now. Getting value for your cap space is almost more important than getting production on the ice. We just saw what happens when you pay a guy for qualities like "leadership". Eventually you wind up paying for only that. Callahan plays a reckless style physically. I don't think he's going to be a guy who plays at this level late into his thirties. I can accept paying him a little too much, but a I cannot accept paying him for too long. I think he's going to go the way of Adam Graves, who left it all on the ice, but ran out of "it" early. I don't want to see him getting one of these ridiculous 10 year deals. And for the love of God, can we please make it tail off at the end the way everyone else does instead of these assinine deals where the guy makes the same outrageous salary from beginning to end?
But the whole point is you aren't paying him for leadership. You're paying him because he's a DAMN good player. You never pay a guy just for leadership. Leadership is a bonus, never a starting point. Ryan Callahan will get paid because he deserves to get paid, because he's an excellent hockey player.

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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
That's my mantra. Player value/importance to a team is directly tied to his cap hit. Value can swing different directions based on a player's salary, in the salary cap world. A player like Wolski at $3.8 mil may be a bit of a cap headache at times, but a player like Wolski at a $1.75 mil would be considered a 'good value' addition to your roster.
But some guys, certain type of players, I don't want at ANY price. Usually, players that have a lot of offensive talent, but play with a lot of flaws and inconsistency. Of course, some guys, are so good that you can see how overpaying them might not be ideal, but still necessary.

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06-30-2011, 09:59 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
But some guys, certain type of players, I don't want at ANY price. Usually, players that have a lot of offensive talent, but play with a lot of flaws and inconsistency. Of course, some guys, are so good that you can see how overpaying them might not be ideal, but still necessary.
Well yeah, you would always need to consider the whole package when evaluating a player's value or the desirableness to add a particular player to your team, but it's quite interesting to note how the salary cap has changed the way that fans and even teams value players. Prior to the lock-out, we would probably not even be discussing salaries (cap hits) in most of these discussions when evaluating players. Back then, whether a 3rd line forward made $3.75 mil a season or $1.75 mil a season, probably wasn't even an afterthought for fans of teams with well to do owners. These days it's one of the more important elements to consider. Personally, I love how the salary cap has changed everything. The business of the game is so much more complicated and exciting now. It went from being a game of solitaire played by several GM's to a 30 man chess match with methodical and calculated moves that require planning and forethought. I also loved how it's placed a new emphasis (or mandate) on the utilization of young talent and made the trade market so much more treacherous. It's really changed the landscape for GM's and demanded much more attention to detail. Good stuff.

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06-30-2011, 10:06 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Well yeah, you would always need to consider the whole package when evaluating a player's value or the desirableness to add a particular player to your team, but it's quite interesting to note how the salary cap has changed the way that fans and even teams value players. Prior to the lock-out, we would probably not even be discussing salaries (cap hits) in most of these discussions when evaluating players. Back then, whether a 3rd line forward made $3.75 mil a season or $1.75 mil a season, probably wasn't even an afterthought for fans of teams with well to do owners. These days it's one of the more important elements to consider. Personally, I love how the salary cap has changed everything. The business of the game is so much more complicated and exciting now. It went from being a game of solitaire played by several GM's to a 30 man chess match with methodical and calculated moves that require planning and forethought. I also loved how it's placed a new emphasis (or mandate) on the utilization of young talent and made the trade market so much more treacherous. It's really changed the landscape for GM's and demanded much more attention to detail. Good stuff.
Very interesting, insightful observation

Completely agreed.

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Old
06-30-2011, 10:19 PM
  #137
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I agree, I'm a fan of the salary cap when I look at it and how it's done what you say.

However, as a Rangers fan, imagine no cap and Sather finally realizing how to build a winning team?


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06-30-2011, 10:21 PM
  #138
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Kovalchuk - Richards - Gaborik
Dubinsky - Anisimov - Callahan
Jokinen - Stepan - MZA
Fedotenko - Boyle - Prust

Staal - Girardi
McDonagh - Ehrhoff
Erixon - Sauer


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06-30-2011, 10:24 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by New York RKY View Post
Kovalchuk - Richards - Gaborik
Dubinsky - Anisimov - Callahan
Jokinen - Stepan - MZA
Fedotenko - Boyle - Prust

Staal - Girardi
McDonagh - Ehrhoff
Erixon - Sauer

Nice mix of Twins style and Yankees style

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06-30-2011, 10:24 PM
  #140
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But the whole point is you aren't paying him for leadership. You're paying him because he's a DAMN good player. You never pay a guy just for leadership. Leadership is a bonus, never a starting point. Ryan Callahan will get paid because he deserves to get paid, because he's an excellent hockey player.



But some guys, certain type of players, I don't want at ANY price. Usually, players that have a lot of offensive talent, but play with a lot of flaws and inconsistency. Of course, some guys, are so good that you can see how overpaying them might not be ideal, but still necessary.
Look, I like the guy a lot. But I'm not getting attached to a sign at all costs type of plan. He's a great Ranger. But he's a high end 3rd/lower second liner who plays his ass off every night. Any talk of anything near 5M is just crazy talk. For the long term good of the team you just can't get too emotionally connected, and I know that's difficult. But I root for the logo on the front of the sweater, not the name on the back. And you don't hamstring yourself for years out of loyalty right now. You'd think we, of all fans, would see that.

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06-30-2011, 10:27 PM
  #141
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Look, I like the guy a lot. But I'm not getting attached to a sign at all costs type of plan. He's a great Ranger. But he's a high end 3rd/lower second liner who plays his ass off every night. Any talk of anything near 5M is just crazy talk. For the long term good of the team you just can't get too emotionally connected, and I know that's difficult. But I root for the logo on the front of the sweater, not the name on the back. And you don't hamstring yourself for years out of loyalty right now. You'd think we, of all fans, would see that.
LOW end 2nd liner? He's a legitimate 2nd line RWer right now, I don't see how you can say differently. His GPG average over 82 games this season would have clocked him in at 30 goals and 55+ points. Add in all the other stuff he does; such as relentlessly forecheck and backcheck, hit like a freight train, and kill penalties; and you cannot deny that he is a top-6 forward on every team in the NHL.

(Excuse the choppy English. )

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06-30-2011, 10:29 PM
  #142
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I think he gets 25 for 6 as 6-5-4-4-3-3

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06-30-2011, 10:30 PM
  #143
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I think there's a limit on every player. Noone should be allowed to pickpocket you. That being said, I don't think Callahan intends to pickpocket anyone.

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07-01-2011, 01:05 AM
  #144
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LOW end 2nd liner? He's a legitimate 2nd line RWer right now, I don't see how you can say differently. His GPG average over 82 games this season would have clocked him in at 30 goals and 55+ points. Add in all the other stuff he does; such as relentlessly forecheck and backcheck, hit like a freight train, and kill penalties; and you cannot deny that he is a top-6 forward on every team in the NHL.

(Excuse the choppy English. )
He's definitely a low end 2nd liner at best right now. He didn't play enough last year to pencil him in for 30 goals and 60 pts a year. Plus last year was the first time he showed us any kind of hands at all, so he'll have to do more to erase the memories of stone hands. I'd love for him to be that guy, but I sure wouldn't put money on it.

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07-01-2011, 01:57 AM
  #145
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He's definitely a low end 2nd liner at best right now. He didn't play enough last year to pencil him in for 30 goals and 60 pts a year. Plus last year was the first time he showed us any kind of hands at all, so he'll have to do more to erase the memories of stone hands. I'd love for him to be that guy, but I sure wouldn't put money on it.
I'm not penciling him in for anything, but Ryan Callahan is more to this team than a "low end second liner"—he's more than that to any team in the NHL. There are very few players in this league that impact his team's game in a positive light on a shift-by-shift basis as Callahan does—yeah, he's not the most talented player in the league, but he's one of the most effective. He knows where the puck is going to be, he knows WHERE to be on the ice, and he knows what to do with the puck. He's a fantastic forechecker, backchecker, PKer, and net-front presence—his deflection skills are severely underrated. He had nearly half of his goals last year on the powerplay, 3 more than Gaborik, the next best, and 6 more than Dubinsky, the 3rd best.

He isn't a 1st liner, but he is most certainly a legitimate 2nd line winger on every team in the NHL.

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07-01-2011, 02:12 AM
  #146
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No one will go after Sather...despite what fans may think of him Sather is a guy that other GMs just will not mess with.
be careful or sather will sign someone to a more stupid contract than you would!!!!!!!!!!

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07-01-2011, 02:18 AM
  #147
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Ehrhoff just got 10 years 40 mil. Give Cally the same deal. Done and done.
I love Cally, but it's too risky to give a guy with his injury history and playing style a 10 year contract. 6 years at the max.

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07-01-2011, 06:08 AM
  #148
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I hate agents. They sound like tools. One day Bartlett is banging the drum about an offer sheet for one of his clients and then sounding like he wants to make a deal for a player who will make more on the open market than staying in Pittsburgh

Quote:
"We're continuing to feel like we're making slow, steady progress," Bartlett said. "My gut tells me we'll find a way to close the gap."

Bartlett did not elaborate on just how large the gap between what the Penguins are offering and Kennedy is seeking is, but said it has shrunk over the past few days.

"I wouldn't be optimistic if there was a large gap," he said. "We're trying to grind through some ideas about [the length of the deal] and other things that affect the [salary]."

Shero and Bartlett are longtime friends and onetime associates -- Shero worked for Bartlett before getting his first front-office job in Ottawa -- and their relationship certainly is an asset in the negotiations. While it doesn't guarantee there will be an agreement, it keeps the talks from becoming contentious.
Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11182...#ixzz1Qqo3Nfy6

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07-01-2011, 06:34 AM
  #149
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5 years@20 mil is my guess. And as much as I love Cally, >4mil/year is overpayment considering what he is and what he have done, not what he will become. Can't see him signing anywhere else, he's here for life.

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07-01-2011, 07:19 AM
  #150
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The max length of contract I'd sign anyone for is 6 years. There may be a couple exceptions like Crosby, Ovechkin both of whom are still pretty young. The thing is you just don't know how long a player is going to last or continue at the pace he's on. And just because the cap has risen every year does not mean that some day it might not stop rising or even come crashing down. Eventually I suspect it's going to link itself to our economy as a whole.

Anyway signing Erhoff for 10 years. C'mon! He's a good player but he'll be practically 40 when that expires. Or even Bryzgalov for 9 years. He will be 40 by the time that expires. Bryzgalov has not played a single game for the Flyers and what if something happens or he simply doesn't work out? We've seen DiPietro and Yashin on the Island. We've seen New Jersey, Detroit etc. trying to circumvent the contract. And younger players are one thing but giving long term contracts to middle aged players is frankly IMO just idiotic. Benefit now--pay the piper later. Chris Pronger is signed until he's about 43. Hello? And that's a 35+ contract. The Flyers with their 9 year contract to Richards--which they more or less gave to Bryzgalov and what was it a an 11 year contract to Carter who they moved to Columbus.

There's a point where if Callahan were to sign an offer sheet you'd have to let him go. I can see maybe making at most a $20 mil investment for 4 years--and that's if push came to shove. But that would be about it. But value wise he's in the $4 mil per range--maybe a little less.

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