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Gomez trade in the works? LEGIT SOURCES ONLY (Part II)

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Old
06-30-2011, 11:13 PM
  #326
Hugo Sham
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Originally Posted by Goldthorpe View Post
The big difference between now and then, is that Plekanec has developped into a legit top 6 forward, arguably a better player than Gomez. Two years ago, after Koivu, we had absolutely nobody.
not true. pleks, 4 years ago with kovy and andrei made up one of the most dominant lines in the NHL - remember when we finished first i the east?

i think Gomez was signed because gainey wanted a SC winner who could help change the culture of the team - AND was supposed to be a no.1 center, problem is our pro scouting had and still has its head up its ass and doesn't assess players properly...as you will see by many of our trades

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06-30-2011, 11:24 PM
  #327
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Is it me or are there tooo many Gomez supporters? THe guy maybe the worst player in the NHL for what he brings compared to his salary. he is awful. I have nothing against him as a person, Im sure hes a fabulous human being but the man has nothing left. He wont produce. Moslon should do the right thing and bury him in Hamilton

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06-30-2011, 11:25 PM
  #328
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Is it me or are there tooo many Gomez supporters? THe guy maybe the worst player in the NHL for what he brings compared to his salary. he is awful. I have nothing against him as a person, Im sure hes a fabulous human being but the man has nothing left. He wont produce. Moslon should do the right thing and bury him in Hamilton
People around here have short memories...

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06-30-2011, 11:26 PM
  #329
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People around here have short memories...
Im trying to figure out what you meant by that

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06-30-2011, 11:42 PM
  #330
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In the current context, with a bunch of teams looking to reach the cap floor, coupled with the fact that Gomez' cap hit is much higher than his actual salary, I could see many teams being interested in adding him to their line-up.

He's a great veteran presence, isn't a detrimental presence on the ice, unlike some of you are claiming, and he could even bounce back (not by much, but better than last year at least).
I think that is possible. He's still a valuable contributor to a team. I'd like to see them move him, and sign Richards as a replacement. Or maybe they move Gomez to Tampa as part of a Lecavalier swap. The new Stamkos contract would replace it.

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06-30-2011, 11:43 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by Zorba View Post
Is it me or are there tooo many Gomez supporters? THe guy maybe the worst player in the NHL for what he brings compared to his salary. he is awful. I have nothing against him as a person, Im sure hes a fabulous human being but the man has nothing left. He wont produce. Moslon should do the right thing and bury him in Hamilton
He has a bad salary, but I'm not paying him, and it's not like there was a lot of other options to spend that cap on last year anyway. He's really, REALLY not as bad as some are making him out to be.

I wouldn't be sad if he was traded. I won't be disappointed if he ends up staying another season.

Edit: signing Richards would be a mistake IMO. It would just be more of the same. He'll command too great of a salary for a player who's been great at times, and disappointing other times. I said it before, but people asking for Gomez' head right now and hoping that Richards sign with us are the ones that would (or will) ask for Richards' head after a few seasons because he won't be as productive in 2-3 years but will have a 10 years contract in hand at a ridiculous salary.

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07-01-2011, 12:23 AM
  #332
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No offence but keep dreaming. He has a diminished skill set. Gomez over the last 4 years is on a steep decline in every category. THeres no way he gets 45 assists next year and Isay that cause theres almost no chance he get 10 goals. He will probably end up between 40-45 points
Hmmm...How sure are you of that?
Prior to last year, he had 60-70-59-58 pts. Seems to me like a pretty darn stable production, and one of those year (the 70pts one), he benefited from an increased PP production rate.
During those same years, his Even Strength Production was as consistent as one can ask with 37-40-40-40 point totals.
So, where is this constant decline you're talking about?? Even if you want to include last year instead of the 06-07 one, his ES totals are 40-40-40-20. So again, where's the constant decline?

What's really more probable here, that Gomez suddenly forgot to play hockey and is on a huge decline at 31, or, after scoring 37-40-40-40 ES points, he simply had a tough season with only 20???..Don't you agree that bad years, like the one Plekanec had a couple years back, happen?? You can dislike Gomez all you want, I personally never really liked him, but at least be fair. If he has trouble racking up 40pts again next year, then I'll have no choice but to agree. Until then however, the Stats I read point towards it simply being an anomaly year.

You can draw your own conclusion from this, but you're going to have to explain to me where this steep decline is.

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07-01-2011, 12:30 AM
  #333
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Outsider question (maybe it's been covered but don't want to read all the pages):

When the Habs traded for Gomez, trading for one of the worst contracts in the NHL was explained away because he brought Gionta and Cammalleri with. I have to wonder, if that's the case, what message would trying to shed him so soon after send?
I think the message would be that players are expected to play their role. Gomez has never been asked to be a ppg player here (which would justify his salary considering his defensive capabilities), but the expectation would be that he would continue to produce the way he has his entire career. Averaging out around 65pts or so is likely closer to the expectation and he hasn't done that in two years. He did have a stretch in the 2nd half of his first season where he produced at the level but followed it up with a career worst season.

I think players like Gomez might want to expect a longer leash than Gomez has given (if he was moved now) but I don't think any player (including players that said they signed here in part because of the Gomez trade) would think the Habs were being unreasonable if he was moved at this point.

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07-01-2011, 12:37 AM
  #334
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Hmmm...How sure are you of that?
Prior to last year, he had 60-70-59-58 pts. Seems to me like a pretty darn stable production, and one of those year (the 70pts one), he benefited from an increased PP production rate.
During those same years, his Even Strength Production was as consistent as one can ask with 37-40-40-40 point totals.
So, where is this constant decline you're talking about?? Even if you want to include last year instead of the 06-07 one, his ES totals are 40-40-40-20. So again, where's the constant decline?

What's really more probable here, that Gomez suddenly forgot to play hockey and is on a huge decline at 31, or, after scoring 37-40-40-40 ES points, he simply had a tough season with only 20???..Don't you agree that bad years, like the one Plekanec had a couple years back, happen?? You can dislike Gomez all you want, I personally never really liked him, but at least be fair. If he has trouble racking up 40pts again next year, then I'll have no choice but to agree. Until then however, the Stats I read point towards it simply being an anomaly year.

You can draw your own conclusion from this, but you're going to have to explain to me where this steep decline is.
To support your point I refer to this article I wrote here.

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/20...ed-next-summer

Gomez plays the same game with the same talent as he has always done. As a result he produces for himself and his teamates as many shots on net as he always has. He had a bad run on him and his teammates converting chances into goals but that means at best he has to make some adjustments and get better luck. His talent hasn't left him.

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07-01-2011, 12:49 AM
  #335
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If you look at Gomez's stats, in depth, over the past few years, you would notice how last season clearly stands out as an anomaly. It has nothing to do with teammates or what not. If he gets carried by Gionta+MaxPac+PMDs, then he will get far more than just his usual 55pts. I would think he'd get upwards of 70pts if he really does get taken on for a ride by the rest of the talented squad.
He wasn't carried by his linemates or PMDs in his first year here as we lost Markov and Gio-Cammy to injuries while Pouliot went cold after his post trade hot streak, and he managed his usual total. So, I think Gomez is likely to get around 55pts with average contribution from the rest of his linemates.
You have a point there. Lets hope last season was an anomaly. I'd be hard pressed to think he is already on the decline. He just needs to play with two solid wingers. If we keep Gomez we need to get another elite top 6 forward. When he played with Patch and Gionta he got 21 points in 26 games. As soon as Patch got hurt Gomez was invisible because we didn't have anyone to fill that role. If we bolster our depth at the wings I think Gomez will have a decent season. We should only trade him if we get a serious centerman back. Otherwise, we'll have much bigger problems with Plekanec, DD, and Eller as our top 3 centermen. THe latter two have a lot of potential but not yet ready to take on a 'top 6' role. At least Gomez has a track record of proven success.

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07-01-2011, 01:21 AM
  #336
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I like Gomez, but I agree with the posters who say he's on a downward trend. I'd say a steep trend, but can he really get much worse than last year?

I also agree that he could easily have a good year in 11-12, maybe 12-13. But that will be a blip on an otherwise downward trajectory.

Some guys' skills just give out earlier. Not everyone is Sakic or Yzerman, and let's be honest, Gomez wasn't one of those guys at the best of times.

I think we need to jettison that contract by whatever means necessary. This isn't a charity, and the Habs make enough money as an organization to eat the contract. The Habs don't owe Gomez anything. If there's opportunity we need to strike. This isn't really a young team. It's a mixed bag of youth and vets, but a couple of big guns (Richards, etc.) could make all the difference.

I would personally love to see some boldness from Habs' management for a change. I'm starting to think that winning Cups isn't a real priority for this organization.


Last edited by Guy Caballero: 07-01-2011 at 01:27 AM.
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Old
07-01-2011, 01:30 AM
  #337
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I'd be happy man if I woke up tomorrow to Gomez traded and Hannan/Hejda signed and Flash/Jagr signed.

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07-01-2011, 06:12 AM
  #338
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Originally Posted by Guy Caballero View Post
I like Gomez, but I agree with the posters who say he's on a downward trend. I'd say a steep trend, but can he really get much worse than last year?

I also agree that he could easily have a good year in 11-12, maybe 12-13. But that will be a blip on an otherwise downward trajectory.

Some guys' skills just give out earlier. Not everyone is Sakic or Yzerman, and let's be honest, Gomez wasn't one of those guys at the best of times.

I think we need to jettison that contract by whatever means necessary. This isn't a charity, and the Habs make enough money as an organization to eat the contract. The Habs don't owe Gomez anything. If there's opportunity we need to strike. This isn't really a young team. It's a mixed bag of youth and vets, but a couple of big guns (Richards, etc.) could make all the difference.

I would personally love to see some boldness from Habs' management for a change. I'm starting to think that winning Cups isn't a real priority for this organization.
Why would Gomez have steeply declined by 20+ points in one year? It's not like he is 38, he's 31 and lots left in the tank, he got off to a bad start and started pressing and made it worse...sort of a snowball effect, I'm sure he'll be ultra motivated this year with something to prove.

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07-01-2011, 06:54 AM
  #339
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Originally Posted by Guy Caballero View Post
I like Gomez, but I agree with the posters who say he's on a downward trend. I'd say a steep trend, but can he really get much worse than last year?

I also agree that he could easily have a good year in 11-12, maybe 12-13. But that will be a blip on an otherwise downward trajectory.

Some guys' skills just give out earlier. Not everyone is Sakic or Yzerman, and let's be honest, Gomez wasn't one of those guys at the best of times.

I think we need to jettison that contract by whatever means necessary. This isn't a charity, and the Habs make enough money as an organization to eat the contract. The Habs don't owe Gomez anything. If there's opportunity we need to strike. This isn't really a young team. It's a mixed bag of youth and vets, but a couple of big guns (Richards, etc.) could make all the difference.

I would personally love to see some boldness from Habs' management for a change. I'm starting to think that winning Cups isn't a real priority for this organization.
You have to be funniest person alive

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07-01-2011, 07:18 AM
  #340
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You have to be funniest person alive
The bolded part is actually true though.

Some guys do decline faster than others. Sometimes it's mentally, other times they get figured out, other times it's their health and there's also the will to compete that goes when a player gets all of his money early on due to insane UFA contracts at 27. Sometimes it's a combination of all that.

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07-01-2011, 07:19 AM
  #341
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Why would Gomez have steeply declined by 20+ points in one year? It's not like he is 38, he's 31 and lots left in the tank, he got off to a bad start and started pressing and made it worse...sort of a snowball effect, I'm sure he'll be ultra motivated this year with something to prove.
Gomez got a ton of money early on, and has always been a guy that had to be pushed to compete. He has 2 cup rings, and doesn't have much incentive to compete hard. He's an old 31

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07-01-2011, 07:24 AM
  #342
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not true. pleks, 4 years ago with kovy and andrei made up one of the most dominant lines in the NHL - remember when we finished first i the east?
Yeah, I remember that. I also remember that half the board was saying Plek had been leaching out of Kovy, and wanted Gainey to trade his ass out of town. Plek was anything but the sure thing.

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07-01-2011, 08:10 AM
  #343
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The bolded part is actually true though.

Some guys do decline faster than others. Sometimes it's mentally, other times they get figured out, other times it's their health and there's also the will to compete that goes when a player gets all of his money early on due to insane UFA contracts at 27. Sometimes it's a combination of all that.
Yeah.... that probably explains why Gomez had 56 points in the 113 games he played with the Habs (0,50 PPG), without Markov, yet got 41 points in the last 44 games he played with Markov in the 09-10 season (0,93 PPG).

You and that other guy are gonna sound really dumb in a few months if he gets back to form, and I can tell you that he will get back to form if Markov plays the whole season.

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07-01-2011, 08:12 AM
  #344
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Yeah.... that probably explains why Gomez had 56 points in the 113 games he played with the Habs (0,50 PPG), without Markov, yet got 41 points in the last 44 games he played with Markov in the 09-10 season (0,93 PPG).

You and that other guy are gonna sound really dumb in a few months if he gets back to form, and I can tell you that he will get back to form if Markov plays the whole season.
A seven million dollar player shouldnt need other players to make him better, he should be making the players around him better.

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07-01-2011, 08:20 AM
  #345
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Gomez got a ton of money early on, and has always been a guy that had to be pushed to compete. He has 2 cup rings, and doesn't have much incentive to compete hard. He's an old 31
And yet, after winning his last cup, he had 45 points in 42 playoff games before getting traded to the Habs.

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07-01-2011, 08:33 AM
  #346
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Yeah.... that probably explains why Gomez had 56 points in the 113 games he played with the Habs (0,50 PPG), without Markov, yet got 41 points in the last 44 games he played with Markov in the 09-10 season (0,93 PPG).

You and that other guy are gonna sound really dumb in a few months if he gets back to form, and I can tell you that he will get back to form if Markov plays the whole season.
I'd love to work for you. Low expectations and no accountability.

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07-01-2011, 08:49 AM
  #347
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Gomez is going to stay a hab, have a good (not great) season & then pick up his game in the playoffs & be a big part of a deep playoff run.

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07-01-2011, 08:55 AM
  #348
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I'd love to work for you. Low expectations and no accountability.
Please tell me how you came to that conclusion? Because I am the total opposite of that. The difference might be that I don't think Gomez owes me anything, because I'm not his boss.

And as far as expectations go, your deductive skills reek, because if you read any of what I said, you'd know I expect Gomez to get close to PPG clip next season if he can play the whole season with Markov and Pac. Yup, those are pretty low expectations indeed....





If I were you're boss, I'd fire you, hell I wouldn't even hire you, for the simple fact that you can't even get pass simplistic reasoning. As a boss, I don't want tools, I would want people who are actually able to get a pulse on things.

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A seven million dollar player shouldnt need other players to make him better, he should be making the players around him better.
Ok, Mr Molson, since you're the one paying, I'll agree with you.


Now, if you'll take a step back, and take your head out of your own a-hole, you'll realize that I was never arguing over how much money Gomez makes, or the expectations I have of him, or what Gomez owes to me as a fan.

I posted those stats to show that it is ridicule to say a player "lost his skills because of age" when he just hit 31.

If you want to talk about this, fine, let's.

Otherwise, go do the Ralph Wiggum routine to someone else


Last edited by PyrettaBlaze*: 07-01-2011 at 10:58 AM.
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07-01-2011, 09:30 AM
  #349
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Yeah.... that probably explains why Gomez had 56 points in the 113 games he played with the Habs (0,50 PPG), without Markov, yet got 41 points in the last 44 games he played with Markov in the 09-10 season (0,93 PPG).

You and that other guy are gonna sound really dumb in a few months if he gets back to form, and I can tell you that he will get back to form if Markov plays the whole season.
I never came out and said that Gomez has declined. I said Gomez would get carried by Patch+our PMDs to 60 pts. So the joke is on you for putting words in my mouth.

If you wanna know my real opinion of Gomez I can tell you.

I think the guy is physically capable of doing a heck of a lot better but I don't think he tries very hard, and he got figured out a lot. He really needs actual good players to dish the puck to because he's somewhat useless on his own and can't create anything with his patented rush up the ice and pass the puck back to a dman or a streaking forward. That's all he seems inclined to want to do lately. No imagination, no heart to do more. But he's definitely capable of more. Let's see if he acts on his parting words from last season. I'm actually kinda 50/50 on whether he'll bounce back and play better. I'm pretty sure that he'll get more points no matter what simply because of Markov/Pacioretty, but that doesn't mean he'll be better.

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And yet, after winning his last cup, he had 45 points in 42 playoff games before getting traded to the Habs.
And yet rarely ever got out of first round.

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07-01-2011, 09:32 AM
  #350
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Please tell me how you came to that conclusion? Because I am the total opposite of that. The difference might be that I don't think Gomez owes me anything, because I'm not his boss.

And as far as expectations go, your deductive skills reek, because if you read any of what I said, you'd know I expect Gomez to get close to PPG clip next season if he can play the whole season with Markov and Pac. Yup, those are pretty low expectations indeed....





If I were you're boss, I'd fire you, hell I wouldn't even hire you, for the simple fact that you can't even get pass simplistic reasoning. As a boss, I don't want tools, I would want people who are actually able to get a pulse on things.
Of course you'd fire someone who doesn't agree with you. Yet you dont want tools. What is your opinion of his performance as a Hab? Why are you so forgiving? Do you think we could do worst if we had that $7.3M to invest right now? If Plekanec had signed a $7.3M contract we'd all be on his back right now. Yet he outperforms Gomez in every aspect of the game.

He can only bounce back. He cant have a worst season. But there is no way he brings what $7.3M should.

So yeah.... you'd keep the highly overpaid under performing guy and fire the guy who questions that. Tool indeed...

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