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Gomez trade in the works? LEGIT SOURCES ONLY (Part II)

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07-01-2011, 09:45 AM
  #351
Ozymandias
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
And yet rarely ever got out of first round.
Yeah, he got to 42 playoff games in 4 seasons by only going to the first round...

Which is irrelevant as a #1 Centerman going PPG can't really be blamed for a loss in a TEAM sport. You're using the same argument that was used against Koivu, which has been debunked a long time ago.


It is clear that your POV is based on nothing more than hate, you INVENT anything from the top of your head, without even knowing the facts.

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07-01-2011, 09:55 AM
  #352
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Yeah, he got to 42 playoff games in 4 seasons by only going to the first round...

Which is irrelevant as a #1 Centerman going PPG can't really be blamed for a loss in a TEAM sport. You're using the same argument that was used against Koivu, which has been debunked a long time ago.


It is clear that your POV is based on nothing more than hate, you INVENT anything from the top of your head, without even knowing the facts.
03-04 : 1st round with beast team
05-06 : 2nd round with beast team
06-07 : 2nd round with beast team
07-08 : 2nd round
08-09 : 1st round
09-10 : 3rd round on Halak's back
10-11 : 1st round

Excuse me, he sometimes got past the first round. You're right. He's a beast. I'm so dishonest. Damn...

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07-01-2011, 09:56 AM
  #353
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
The bolded part is actually true though.

Some guys do decline faster than others. Sometimes it's mentally, other times they get figured out, other times it's their health and there's also the will to compete that goes when a player gets all of his money early on due to insane UFA contracts at 27. Sometimes it's a combination of all that.
Sure it is, some people decline quicker than others, and sometimes it happens quickly, like Higgins. That's rarely the case (I can't really think of any right now) for skilled players such as Gomez, that have put up 50+pts consistently throughout their careers.

When the Stats CLEARLY show an abnormal drop, then it hints more towards an anomaly than a decline. I think the hate some people have over Gomez and his contract prevents them from seeing what's right in front of their eyes. Stats point toward it simply being a bad year.

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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
I never came out and said that Gomez has declined. I said Gomez would get carried by Patch+our PMDs to 60 pts. So the joke is on you for putting words in my mouth.

If you wanna know my real opinion of Gomez I can tell you.

I think the guy is physically capable of doing a heck of a lot better but I don't think he tries very hard, and he got figured out a lot. He really needs actual good players to dish the puck to because he's somewhat useless on his own and can't create anything with his patented rush up the ice and pass the puck back to a dman or a streaking forward. That's all he seems inclined to want to do lately. No imagination, no heart to do more. But he's definitely capable of more. Let's see if he acts on his parting words from last season. I'm actually kinda 50/50 on whether he'll bounce back and play better. I'm pretty sure that he'll get more points no matter what simply because of Markov/Pacioretty, but that doesn't mean he'll be better.
I don't know why people on these boards either ignore posts or jump over them.
There shouldn't be many doubts that he'll bounce back and that's because he just had a bad year, like Plek did a few years back. I won't re-write the same post I did just last page, but here's an article that pretty much sums it up (thanks to Talks to GoalPosts) http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/20...ed-next-summer

I also have a hard time seeing the problem in Gomez producing more with better players. Isn't that pretty much the case for everybody in the NHL? You think Crosby would produce more with Doan and Nash or Dupuis/Kunitz? He'll still produce a great amount because he's arguably the best in the NHL. You think Plek will produce more with Cammy/AK or Cammy/Halpern?..
I don't really see what's wrong with that. It's a team's game. There isn't one player in the NHL that doesn't benefit from playing with better players.

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Old
07-01-2011, 10:03 AM
  #354
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post


I also have a hard time seeing the problem in Gomez producing more with better players. Isn't that pretty much the case for everybody in the NHL?
Let's get Jonathan Cheechoo, 50 goals scorer man. He did it with Thornton feeding him but who cares about that. We should just find players to feed him the puck so he can get 50 goals. Flawless plan IMO.

And yes I just went to an extreme to prove a point that when a player does better because of the players around him, it doesn't mean that player is good... even if he scored 50 goals. That's even more the case if we're talking about Gomez getting 55 pts next season.

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Old
07-01-2011, 10:16 AM
  #355
Ozymandias
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Originally Posted by znk View Post
Of course you'd fire someone who doesn't agree with you.
And yet I gave you many other reasons. I'll give another, I asked you a question, you still haven't answered it. I want employees who are forthcoming, and you still haven't explained HOW you came to those conclusions in your first post.

*Boss notes lack of respect, notes complete ignorance of the reasons stated before*

Quote:
Yet you dont want tools.
You made a false assumption to then make this conclusion. If the first one is wrong, than the second one is too.

*Boss notes employee's further lack of deductive skills*

Quote:
What is your opinion of his performance as a Hab?
I've answered this already. If you want me to answer it again, you'll start by answering my initial question.

*Boss notes stubborness at avoiding the real question*

Quote:
Why are you so forgiving?
Forgiving for what? Who did I forgave? Where did I write any of that

*Boss notes that the employee tries to change the subject, and stick false intentions to his employer, and is pretentious to the point of concluding things for his own boss*

Quote:
Do you think we could do worst if we had that $7.3M to invest right now?
I never said the opposite, I've even been in this thread saying that if we trade Gomez we need someone to replace him. I've even, like most fans, made a big prayer so that PG can trade him and we can sign Richards.

Quote:
If Plekanec had signed a $7.3M contract we'd all be on his back right now.
Don't take decisions for me.

*Boss notes yet again that the employee 'decides' what other people think, without actually knowing what they think. Notes tendency at generalizing everyone as though everyone thinks like him.*

I don't care how much Plex makes. I've never been on a player's back because he doesn't perform (except Theo, but that's personal, and another story for another time), and especially not in regards to how much he makes. To me the cap is an allowance, and that allowance has spots to be filled.

Quote:
Yet he outperforms Gomez in every aspect of the game.
Yeah, I know, I love Plex, he's very good.

Quote:
He can only bounce back. He cant have a worst season. But there is no way he brings what $7.3M should.
And that has to do with....?

Quote:
So yeah.... you'd keep the highly overpaid under performing guy and fire the guy who questions that. Tool indeed...
That's your own faulty conclusion based on so much BS assumptions. Please answer my first question. How did you come to this conclusion? You said "I'd love to work for you. Low expectations and no accountability."

Please provide quotes from me that prove this regarding Gomez. You won't be able because you don't even know what the conversation was about.

Why are you talking about Gomez's salary? when the post you quoted was an argumentation against someone who said "Some guys' skills just give out earlier" In reference to Gomez, who is 31. That was the subject I was argumenting. So how did you come to the conclusion that I have low expectations for Gomez (false, you need to just look at the previous page), and that part about accountability... that's your own desire. If you have emotional problems and get frustrated when professional athletes do not perform to your expectations, then I would suggest you seek professional help. To me, it's just entertainment, and I don't feel any of the players owes anything to me. That's just childish.


I'd fire the guy who's unable to actually know what the post he quoted was referring to. And that's you. Performance-wise, you completely fail and that's why you'd get fired.

Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
03-04 : 1st round with beast team
05-06 : 2nd round with beast team
06-07 : 2nd round with beast team
07-08 : 2nd round
08-09 : 1st round
09-10 : 3rd round on Halak's back
10-11 : 1st round

Excuse me, he sometimes got past the first round. You're right. He's a beast. I'm so dishonest. Damn...
Yes you are. Do you even see what you did?

You start by saying "Gomez has won a cup and has money, he doesn't have desire to perform"

I respond by showing this is false, as the 4 seasons after he signed his contract, long after his last cup, he had 45 points in 42 playoff games.

Instead of recognizing your error, you just try to veer off and switch that to something else, you say "yet he rarely got out of the first round" That's in response to the 4 seasons I mention.

I respond that your math skills are very weak because 4 1st round of 7 games makes 28. Just math-wise, your assertion is ridicule.

After I note this, you post the rounds he's made (passed the first round 3 times out of 4, in the period you said "yet rarely passed the 1st round" and also completely ignored that this argument (1st round) is irrelevant as this is a team sport, and the 45 points in those 42 games clearly show he was performing.

I'd cry myself to sleep if I had your brain.


Last edited by PyrettaBlaze*: 07-01-2011 at 10:58 AM.
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Old
07-01-2011, 10:30 AM
  #356
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Old
07-01-2011, 10:41 AM
  #357
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i love Gomez apologists

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Old
07-01-2011, 10:53 AM
  #358
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Yes you are. Do you even see what you did?

You start by saying "Gomez has won a cup and has money, he doesn't have desire to perform"

I respond by showing this is false, as the 4 seasons after he signed his contract, long after his last cup, he had 45 points in 42 playoff games.

Instead of recognizing your error, you just try to veer off and switch that to something else, you say "yet he rarely got out of the first round" That's in response to the 4 seasons I mention.

I respond that your math skills are very weak because 4 1st round of 7 games makes 28. Just math-wise, your assertion is ridicule.

After I note this, you post the rounds he's made (passed the first round 3 times out of 4, in the period you said "yet rarely passed the 1st round" and also completely ignored that this argument (1st round) is irrelevant as this is a team sport, and the 45 points in those 42 games clearly show he was performing.

I'd cry myself to sleep if I had your brain.
The problem is that we're arguing different things. How is it relevant that you cherry picked the 4 years after the cup ?

Also Ozy with the personal attacks again. You're so much smarter than everyone. I bow down to your mighty intellect.

I'd have stopped posting on the boards after the Boucher thing if I were you but I'm not you and you're not me.

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Old
07-01-2011, 11:02 AM
  #359
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Originally Posted by Zorba View Post
How is it riduclous? Please explain? 398 pts and and 7.5 million. Hes a drag on this team professionally and finacially
Ridiculous because it only covers the last season - which is the typical "what have you done to me yesterday" fallacy. Ridiculous because when you take a look at the underlying stats, it's crystal clear Gomez problems are driven by shot% (which has always been highly volatile) and not by puck possession (which tend to remain the same over the years - and has remain more or less the same last year).

This has been explained time and time again. Everyone have read it. The numbers are easily accessible to anyone. You include. Yet, you still come up with the one-liner, thinking that it makes look smart for some reason. Would you like GMs to analyse players only from what they did in the last season? That would make very losy GMs. Everybody understand that. You seem to be eager to show that you don't.

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Old
07-01-2011, 11:11 AM
  #360
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so in your mind Gomez is a number one centre who is not a drain to this team? he hassnt even scored a combined 20 goals over 2 years for the Habs. Bringing him back is just plain stupid. Gionta did nt start scoring last year till he was moved with Pleks. Im gonna predict that Pacs and Gionta will both struggle playing with Gomez

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07-01-2011, 11:24 AM
  #361
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We're done here.

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