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Old
07-01-2011, 11:15 PM
  #26
OttawaRoughRiderFan
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[QUOTE=Pantokrator;34509121]For the record, two years ago we made the playoffs on the last day of the season and did not have to play the two best teams in the conference (Washington and Pittsburgh). So, while we nearly won the Cup last year, the team was not dominant. This year, we got destroyed by the Bruins.[QUOTE]

Must be nice to have standards that high. I live in Leaf country where those kind of accomplishments when result in the canonization of Brian Burke. I guess we are looking at the world from two different perspectives.

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Old
07-01-2011, 11:16 PM
  #27
Ilkka Sinisalo
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what is so worrying about simmonds not signing in the first week or whatever after being traded? you think he's going to head over to the khl or something?

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Old
07-01-2011, 11:18 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
Holmgren just doesn't seem to get it. For the past two seasons all Philly needed was a good goalie. So, what does he do? He gets rid of super star talent to bring in rookies with potential, an aging veteran who hasn't played NHL hockey in 3 years and a top goalie while getting rid of a lot of depth and strength. Why would he let Richards, Carter, Leino, Versteeg, Carcillo, Walker, all go in order to sign a goalie and change the entire roster when all he had to do was get rid of an Versteeg and Walker to have enough room to sign Bryz?!?! I am soooo happy Holmgren is the GM in Philly, and have said so for some time.
Haha, did you really include Walker in that group, was he ever part of the equation???

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Old
07-01-2011, 11:22 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Ilkka Sinisalo View Post
what is so worrying about simmonds not signing in the first week or whatever after being traded? you think he's going to head over to the khl or something?
Just would think him and voracek would be priorities before you head into free agency. Not worried, the night train will be wrecking shop come october.

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Old
07-01-2011, 11:39 PM
  #30
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per Dreger:

Quote:
Kris Versteeg doesn't have a twitter acct, so he asked me to post this quote," I'm takin my toe drag to south beach". Not much else to say.
What did we just do? We got rid of that ^

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07-01-2011, 11:44 PM
  #31
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per Dreger:



What did we just do? We got rid of that ^
Bigger toolbag: Carter or Versteeg?

My vote still goes to Carter.

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Old
07-01-2011, 11:54 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by PycckuuRocket10 View Post
Bigger toolbag: Carter or Versteeg?

My vote still goes to Carter.
I heard Zherdev was the biggest ****ing toolbag the Flyers have ever had.

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Old
07-02-2011, 12:01 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by usahockey22flyers View Post
Well if you think about it, theres unproven NHL talent on this team. (Schenn and Couterier), and then theres 2nd/3rd year guys about to take the next step (Giroux, JvR, Voracek, Simmonds).

So what we did today, brought in Jagr for one year at a decent cap hit (3.3), which guarentees around 45-60 points and makes our team that much more stable with proven talent.

Brought in Talbot, one of the best "locker room" guys in the entire NHL. We all know what he does in the playoffs and he's fantastic on the PK.
Being a Pens fan I don't know what to think of the Flyers offseason moves. The team was built to compete for the Cup every year for the past several years just like the Pens. Now they trade a good bit of the core and other top 6 type forwards in Richards and Carter who are both all star type players and Leino and Versteeg who are top 6 type forwards. So you lose 4 proven top 6 forward with 2 being all star types. The forwards you bring in are not close to that level with Jagr on his last legs but still could put up top 6 forward points this year. Voracek who is also a top 6 forward but more in the class of Versteeg and Leino at this point in his development. I see Jagr and Voracek taking the point total place of Leino and Versteeg type production but not playing at the all around level of Carter and Richards.

Guys like Talbot and Simmonds are grinders to play on 3rd and 4th lines and that is it. Honestly everyone in the burgh really did not think highly of Talbot as a player. Talbot is loved for his playoff performance the year we won the Cup but besides that brief 20 game stretch Talbot has really never produced more than a 4th liner type. He honestly became our 6th option at center behind Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Letestu, and Jeffrey. When Crosby and Malkin went down Letestu and Jeffrey played the 2nd and 3rd line center spots ahead of Talbot. I love the guy because of his off ice personality but I would of been pissed if we payed him anything more than $1 million a year and felt Letestu and Jeffrey are better cheaper options.

The thing I was getting at though about not understanding what your GM is doing is you have these great young players who will be good in a few years just when your most important dmen are declining (Pronger and Timonen will both be 37 this year). So in two years when guys like Shenn, JVR, Voracek, and others start getting close to top form your top 2 dmen which is your strength will be 39 years old. I just don't see how this makes sense for a team that was trying to win now. So just when your team's forwards get back to the level they have been the past 3-4 years when you had 3 #1 lines and either a weakness in goal or D or both depending on the year kept you from winning the Cup. In a few years your elite Dmen will be out of gas just as the forward depth gets near what it used to be. How's this supposed to work for the now or the future?

5 years at $1.8 million per year is brutal for Talbot. I would rather have Letestu, Jeffrey, Asham, or Adams and they all are under $.8 million a year.

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Old
07-02-2011, 12:05 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrosbyMalkin View Post
Being a Pens fan I don't know what to think of the Flyers offseason moves. The team was built to compete for the Cup every year for the past several years just like the Pens. Now they trade a good bit of the core and other top 6 type forwards in Richards and Carter who are both all star type players and Leino and Versteeg who are top 6 type forwards. So you lose 4 proven top 6 forward with 2 being all star types. The forwards you bring in are not close to that level with Jagr on his last legs but still could put up top 6 forward points this year. Voracek who is also a top 6 forward but more in the class of Versteeg and Leino at this point in his development. I see Jagr and Voracek taking the point total place of Leino and Versteeg type production but not playing at the all around level of Carter and Richards.

Guys like Talbot and Simmonds are grinders to play on 3rd and 4th lines and that is it. Honestly everyone in the burgh really did not think highly of Talbot as a player. Talbot is loved for his playoff performance the year we won the Cup but besides that brief 20 game stretch Talbot has really never produced more than a 4th liner type. He honestly became our 6th option at center behind Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Letestu, and Jeffrey. When Crosby and Malkin went down Letestu and Jeffrey played the 2nd and 3rd line center spots ahead of Talbot. I love the guy because of his off ice personality but I would of been pissed if we payed him anything more than $1 million a year and felt Letestu and Jeffrey are better cheaper options.

The thing I was getting at though about not understanding what your GM is doing is you have these great young players who will be good in a few years just when your most important dmen are declining (Pronger and Timonen will both be 37 this year). So in two years when guys like Shenn, JVR, Voracek, and others start getting close to top form your top 2 dmen which is your strength will be 39 years old. I just don't see how this makes sense for a team that was trying to win now. So just when your team's forwards get back to the level they have been the past 3-4 years when you had 3 #1 lines and either a weakness in goal or D or both depending on the year kept you from winning the Cup. In a few years your elite Dmen will be out of gas just as the forward depth gets near what it used to be. How's this supposed to work for the now or the future?

5 years at $1.8 million per year is brutal for Talbot. I would rather have Letestu, Jeffrey, Asham, or Adams and they all are under $.8 million a year.
Neither do we.

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Old
07-02-2011, 12:21 AM
  #35
Ilkka Sinisalo
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you'd rather have craig adams and arron asham than max talbot? is that a joke?

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Old
07-02-2011, 12:28 AM
  #36
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Yeah, about that. There's this thing called a "salary cap". Just because our GM pays no mind to it doesn't mean the fans can ignore it as well.
Yeah, about that. There's this thing called a "sign and trade". I heard we were gonna do that for Yandle

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Old
07-02-2011, 01:04 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by PycckuuRocket10 View Post
This Jagr:



NO!

But this Jagr:



YES!

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Old
07-02-2011, 01:08 AM
  #38
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I heard Zherdev was the biggest ****ing toolbag the Flyers have ever had.
nope.. the new biggest toolbag signed today
..not jagr

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Old
07-02-2011, 01:36 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Ilkka Sinisalo View Post
you'd rather have craig adams and arron asham than max talbot? is that a joke?
I value them the same and I bet if you ask most Pens fans they would agree. Like I said Talbot who is a natural center went all the way down to our 6th center when everyone is healthy. So Talbot would have to play 4th line wing because Dupuis and Cooke are better and I think you will find all Pens fans on with that. Both are just as good of PK guys and bring more offense to the table.

Honestly going into this offseason I wanted the Pens to keep two of these 4 players in Rupp, Adams, Talbot, and Asham. I valued them all about the same as far as 4th line value goes. Adams is better on the PK than Talbot and I really believe Talbot would be a healthy scratch on many nights if he would of been signed by the Pens. Jeffrey is another guy that can also play wing that I think has surpassed Talbot. So no it is not a joke. I think it would of been tough for the coaches to decide who to play on that 4th line wing spots between Adams, Jeffrey, Asham, and Talbot or for that matter Rupp. I like Talbot but to me he is a dime a dozen and I rather the Pens pay under $800,000 for 4th line wingers I think will do just as well and in Jeffrey's case better.

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Old
07-02-2011, 01:41 AM
  #40
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I'd rather have Craig Adams. He's a good player.

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Old
07-02-2011, 12:16 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrosbyMalkin View Post
Being a Pens fan I don't know what to think of the Flyers offseason moves. The team was built to compete for the Cup every year for the past several years just like the Pens. Now they trade a good bit of the core and other top 6 type forwards in Richards and Carter who are both all star type players and Leino and Versteeg who are top 6 type forwards. So you lose 4 proven top 6 forward with 2 being all star types. The forwards you bring in are not close to that level with Jagr on his last legs but still could put up top 6 forward points this year. Voracek who is also a top 6 forward but more in the class of Versteeg and Leino at this point in his development. I see Jagr and Voracek taking the point total place of Leino and Versteeg type production but not playing at the all around level of Carter and Richards.
Guys like Talbot and Simmonds are grinders to play on 3rd and 4th lines and that is it. Honestly everyone in the burgh really did not think highly of Talbot as a player. Talbot is loved for his playoff performance the year we won the Cup but besides that brief 20 game stretch Talbot has really never produced more than a 4th liner type. He honestly became our 6th option at center behind Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Letestu, and Jeffrey. When Crosby and Malkin went down Letestu and Jeffrey played the 2nd and 3rd line center spots ahead of Talbot. I love the guy because of his off ice personality but I would of been pissed if we payed him anything more than $1 million a year and felt Letestu and Jeffrey are better cheaper options.


I agree. The hope must be that others will step up and replace some of the value of Carter and Richards. Also, the hope must be that Bryzgalov will help the team enough to help counter the value of Carter and Richards. But like you, I think this team's group of forwards are lesser than last season's.

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Old
07-02-2011, 12:34 PM
  #42
Chuck Downie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyerfan808 View Post
OUT:

Richards
Carter
Leino
O'Donnell
Boucher
Carcillo
Versteeg
Powe
Bordson
Clackson
Boynton

IN:

Schenn
Simmonds
Voracek
Couturier
Jagr
Lilja
Bryzgalov
Talbot
FLA 2nd and 3rd 2012
MIN 3rd 2012

Before the trades my expectations going into 2012 were "Stanley Cup." My expectations now are "????." We will have to wait and see if this new group can gel together this season and get it done. Chemistry will be the determining factor.
You're missing LA's 2nd 2012.

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Old
07-02-2011, 12:40 PM
  #43
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We clearly have put all of our eggs in the JVR/Giroux basket.

Giroux will keep on keeping on.. but this season is riding on JVR (and Voracek to a degree) taking the next step.

It's like the 06-07 rebuild. We got rid of names, signed some players, and we put our eggs in the Richards/Carter basket. They both took it to another level that season.

I hope Giroux keeps progressing and prey that JVR takes it to the next level. We cannot have 40 point JVR anymore. We need 60+ point JVR. I know 20 point increase is a lot to ask, but we need him to take it up a notch. I feel he's ready and the front office does as well.

I really am fine with all of the moves. I am extremely excited to see Schenn and Couturier. We potentially have 4 aces with Giroux/JVR/Schenn/Couturier and we will see in the next 3-5 years. Gets me drooling if everything goes as planned.

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Old
07-02-2011, 12:40 PM
  #44
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nope.. the new biggest toolbag signed today
..not jagr
fine. whatever. I wanted to get a shot on to the morons who wont let go of the Carter blind hate.

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Old
07-02-2011, 12:52 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flipadelphia View Post
We potentially have 4 aces with Giroux/JVR/Schenn/Couturier and we will see in the next 3-5 years. Gets me drooling if everything goes as planned.
Same thing people were saying about Richards, Carter, Giroux, JVR.

Maybe we'll see JVR and Giroux getting sent packing in four years.

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Old
07-02-2011, 01:15 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Ilkka Sinisalo View Post
what is so worrying about simmonds not signing in the first week or whatever after being traded? you think he's going to head over to the khl or something?
Well, there was big talk of a Mez trade the other day. Maybe Mez + Simmo + picks (of the 1st round nature, maybe 2 of) to Tampa for Stamkos rights?

DISCLAIMER - I sincerely hope this would not happen, and don't for a second believe it would. But to say that Simmonds not being signed isn't worrying might be a bit premature.

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Old
07-02-2011, 01:30 PM
  #47
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I think if we make the playoffs we'll be "WILDCARDD *****ES!!!!!!!!" And actually be more of a pain in the ass to play against then, than in the regualr season.

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Old
07-02-2011, 01:54 PM
  #48
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For the record, two years ago we made the playoffs on the last day of the season and did not have to play the two best teams in the conference (Washington and Pittsburgh). So, while we nearly won the Cup last year, the team was not dominant. This year, we got destroyed by the Bruins. So, I don't know how close in reality we were to being a true Cup challenger.

I don't think we are any further away from being a Cup contender, but until we see how chemistry works out, I think we are still behind at least a healthy Pittsburgh and the Bruins (and perhaps Buffalo and Washington as well). Right now I'd put us in the 3rd to 7th spot in the conference.
I don't get this argument. Sure, this team got lucky with its match-ups, but you have to get lucky to a certain extent to win the Cup. The Bruins played the Habs, Flyers, and Lightning (missing out on the Pens and Caps, while also playing an injury-ridden Flyers team). The Canucks played the Blackhawks (probably the best bottom-4 team in the West), the Preds (best defense in the league and an extremely hot goalie, should've been the 4th seed), and the Sharks (#2 seed). They proved to be pretty dominant in the West. "Dominance" doesn't give you the Stanley Cup; consistency, health, and good match-ups do.

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Old
07-02-2011, 02:01 PM
  #49
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I don't get this argument. Sure, this team got lucky with its match-ups, but you have to get lucky to a certain extent to win the Cup. The Bruins played the Habs, Flyers, and Lightning (missing out on the Pens and Caps, while also playing an injury-ridden Flyers team). The Canucks played the Blackhawks (probably the best bottom-4 team in the West), the Preds (best defense in the league and an extremely hot goalie, should've been the 4th seed), and the Sharks (#2 seed). They proved to be pretty dominant in the West. "Dominance" doesn't give you the Stanley Cup; consistency, health, and good match-ups do.
I don't get it because a big part of the problem was the combination of Emery getting hurt (that team was one of the best in the league the first 20 games) and the fact that Stevens was a **** wad of a head coach.

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Old
07-02-2011, 02:15 PM
  #50
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I think if we make the playoffs we'll be "WILDCARDD *****ES!!!!!!!!" And actually be more of a pain in the ass to play against then, than in the regualr season.
This, considering everyone we picked up so far has had past playoff success.

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