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Old
07-02-2011, 03:24 PM
  #51
Inferno
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
We could not have afforded to sign Kovalchuk with Drury on the books for 2 remaining years and Redden's summer cap hit.... Plus we would not be able to re-sign all our UFA's this summer if we were spending $21 mil+ on those 3 forwards.
sure we could have. just dont sign Frolov, Prospal and Christensen. theres your Kovalchuk cap hit and then some.

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07-02-2011, 03:26 PM
  #52
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Only thing that matters is the results on the ice. That is the only standard by which Sather should be judged. So we'll see how it turns out.

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07-02-2011, 03:37 PM
  #53
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I'd go so far as to say, pretty adamently, that in the last 12 years, he has gone from arguably the worst GM in history to one of the most brilliant. I like him, he has pulled off some remarkable things--even this, getting Richards, the major piece on the market, who undoubtedly had quite a few SERIOUS suitors, in a very unique NHL climate. This is a BIG deal.

As for the contract, we might get 3-4 80+ pt. seasons from Richards, at which point he can still lead a 2nd line and Stepan (or Anisimov, unlikely), his protige, can take the reigns as no. 1. If he's abysmal, Drury-esque, chances are that's 5-6 seasons from now (soonest), and you can buy him out. Would you take 5 seasons of Brad Richards at his best for maybe 2 not so good and 2 maybe really bad... I sure as **** would.

So I'm personally not too worried, we have a GM that can take a 50-year-old grape juice stain off a white rug. Keep up the good work, Slats!

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07-02-2011, 03:45 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by BobMarleyNYR View Post
I'd go so far as to say, pretty adamently, that in the last 12 years, he has gone from arguably the worst GM in history to one of the most brilliant. I like him, he has pulled off some remarkable things--even this, getting Richards, the major piece on the market, who undoubtedly had quite a few SERIOUS suitors, in a very unique NHL climate. This is a BIG deal.

As for the contract, we might get 3-4 80+ pt. seasons from Richards, at which point he can still lead a 2nd line and Stepan (or Anisimov, unlikely), his protige, can take the reigns as no. 1. If he's abysmal, Drury-esque, chances are that's 5-6 seasons from now (soonest), and you can buy him out. Would you take 5 seasons of Brad Richards at his best for maybe 2 not so good and 2 maybe really bad... I sure as **** would.

So I'm personally not too worried, we have a GM that can take a 50-year-old grape juice stain off a white rug. Keep up the good work, Slats!

Not even close. Is he the worst GM in the league, no. But i can think of a bunch of guys i would easily have over him.

For starter, Ken Holland.

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07-02-2011, 03:53 PM
  #55
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Bingo. Long way to go before I consider him anything but poor overall.
IMO, Sather has to build a cup winner to be deemed a success here. And thats still over 10+ years, where a majority of them we missed the playoffs. So even if this team the next 2-3 years brings it home, it kinda evens things out.

But if that happens and thats a big IF, then i'll probably be pretty happy and praise him.

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07-02-2011, 04:07 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
IMO, Sather has to build a cup winner to be deemed a success here. And thats still over 10+ years, where a majority of them we missed the playoffs. So even if this team the next 2-3 years brings it home, it kinda evens things out.

But if that happens and thats a big IF, then i'll probably be pretty happy and praise him.
At the end of the day, a cup's a cup. And with the Rangers lack of them in their history, he will and dare i say, should be considered a success if he gets one here. Obviously not if it takes him 30 years but 10-15 i can live with.

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07-02-2011, 04:39 PM
  #57
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On top of all the other great stuff he's been doing since the lockout, now he manages to get his UFA without overpaying him. Anyone still think he's no different than he was pre-lockout?
great?

The only thing thats been better since the lockout is drafting and thats hardly at all him.

9 yrs to anyone is ludacris.

He's no different.

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07-02-2011, 04:46 PM
  #58
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If you can't see the improvement in the way he's been working, you're simply not paying attention.

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07-02-2011, 04:49 PM
  #59
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sure we could have. just dont sign Frolov, Prospal and Christensen. theres your Kovalchuk cap hit and then some.
That's just for 1 year though....

Gaborik
Richards
Kovalchuk
Lundqvist

= not enough cap space to retain all of our key young players over the coming years (Callahan, Staal, Girardi, Dubinsky, and soon to be Stepan, AA, McDonagh, etc)

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07-02-2011, 05:48 PM
  #60
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great?

The only thing thats been better since the lockout is drafting and thats hardly at all him.

9 yrs to anyone is ludacris.

He's no different.
So you want to give credit to the guy who did the drafting but not the guy that hired the guy who does the drafting? Ookkkk then.

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07-02-2011, 06:04 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
That's just for 1 year though....

Gaborik
Richards
Kovalchuk
Lundqvist

= not enough cap space to retain all of our key young players over the coming years (Callahan, Staal, Girardi, Dubinsky, and soon to be Stepan, AA, McDonagh, etc)
its doable, play with the numbers on capgeek. remember, whats kovalchuks cap hit? like 5.5 mil or something?

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07-02-2011, 06:16 PM
  #62
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No, they just shouldn't have signed Gaborik, and instead waited the following season and pursued Kovalchuk, who would have preferred to play here than NJ.

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07-02-2011, 06:19 PM
  #63
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The only thing I like more about Kovalchuk is his durability and his slightly (and I mean slightly better goal-scoring ability).

Gaborik is a better defensive player, a harder worker and a better professional in every way.

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07-02-2011, 06:22 PM
  #64
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Looks like Sather gave Richards a NMC for the duration of the contract, unbelievable.

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07-02-2011, 06:45 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
The only thing I like more about Kovalchuk is his durability and his slightly (and I mean slightly better goal-scoring ability).

Gaborik is a better defensive player, a harder worker and a better professional in every way.
Gaborik is better defensively, does work harder, and is more professional. The difference in terms of offense is more than slight, however. Gaborik is ineffective with the puck on his stick. He can't beat good defenders one-on-one. He needs help creating time and space, and he's at his best when he only touches the puck when it's time to shoot. And he's very good in that situation, but that makes him easier to shut down.

Kovalchuk creates his own time and space. He's bigger and a lot stronger than Gaborik. He runs right through defenders. He creates his own offensive opportunities, and when he gets help, he is responsible for excellent scoring opportunities more shifts than not.

At his best, he's an unstoppable offensive force. He's just as dynamic, if not more, than Ovechkin, but as much of a bull as he is physically, he still doesn't match Ovechkin's sheer brute force and physical will. I actually think he has higher hockey sense than Ovi, too.

And I believe that Kovalchuk is a lot like Kovalev. In games that are big, he steps up his effort. The guy has spent his entire career on **** teams. Never great goaltending behind him. Never great defenses behind him. Never any teams that featured roster-wide depth at the forward positions. In a couple of years, when the Devils get a good defense and possibly move on from Marty with an adequate replacement (and one or two are available every off-season), they'll be very good (assuming they hold on to Parise, which I think they will).

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07-02-2011, 06:45 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Svenhart2008 View Post
Looks like Sather gave Richards a NMC for the duration of the contract, unbelievable.
Like that has really stopped us before... Remember Chris Drury? He was disposed of about a week ago, NMC and all.

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07-02-2011, 06:47 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Gaborik is better defensively, does work harder, and is more professional. The difference in terms of offense is more than slight, however. Gaborik is ineffective with the puck on his stick. He can't beat good defenders one-on-one. He needs help creating time and space, and he's at his best when he only touches the puck when it's time to shoot. And he's very good in that situation, but that makes him easier to shut down.

Kovalchuk creates his own time and space. He's bigger and a lot stronger than Gaborik. He runs right through defenders. He creates his own offensive opportunities, and when he gets help, he is responsible for excellent scoring opportunities more shifts than not.

At his best, he's an unstoppable offensive force. He's just as dynamic, if not more, than Ovechkin, but as much of a bull as he is physically, he still doesn't match Ovechkin's sheer brute force and physical will. I actually think he has higher hockey sense than Ovi, too.

And I believe that Kovalchuk is a lot like Kovalev. In games that are big, he steps up his effort. The guy has spent his entire career on **** teams. Never great goaltending behind him. Never great defenses behind him. Never any teams that featured roster-wide depth at the forward positions. In a couple of years, when the Devils get a good defense and possibly move on from Marty with an adequate replacement (and one or two are available every off-season), they'll be very good (assuming they hold on to Parise, which I think they will).
Kovalchuk is a great player, no doubt. I never said he wasn't. I just would prefer not to deal with the floating and the petulance. And honestly, so would our coach. Kovalchuk is just not a fit for Tortorella.

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07-02-2011, 06:48 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
Like that has really stopped us before... Remember Chris Drury? He was disposed of about a week ago, NMC and all.
Guess you're right. Still a great deal for us. The fact that he only makes 3 mill in the last 3 years may be a good window for retirement.

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07-02-2011, 06:56 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Kovalchuk is a great player, no doubt. I never said he wasn't. I just would prefer not to deal with the floating and the petulance. And honestly, so would our coach. Kovalchuk is just not a fit for Tortorella.
Hypothetically, I don't think he'd be a problem because with him, this team would be a top 3 team in the Eastern Conference, and thus his effort would improve. Difference between him and Gaborik offensively is so great that it's worth a lesser effort, especially since team defense and goaltending are both superb with this squad. Tortorella has to be smart enough to figure out that sometimes you have to sacrifice a bit in one area to get the necessary result in another.

Essentially, I think there is a pretty big difference between Gaborik and Kovalchuk, and I think it was a very shortsighted move by Sather to sign Gaborik. It was incredibly obvious, even more so than the Richards/Rangers scenario, that Kovalchuk was going to be a free agent; that he would not re-sign with the Thrashers. The Rangers would have easily been the top destination. It would have cost them, but when has that ever stopped them before? The cap hit is manageable. Kovalchuk-Richards would have been an absurdly dangerous offensive duo on the power play, and you could easily have split them up even strength. Richards with Callahan and whichever LW, and Kovalchuk with Anisimov or Stepan and whichever LW, as opposed to the current situation, where Richards and Gaborik (IMO) must be together.

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07-02-2011, 06:59 PM
  #70
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Look, despite what his expert critics on here say, the cupboard was bare of prospects and the organization lacked the professionals in the scouting and developmental departments. All of that has changed now. UFAs were necessary for several reasons the least of which was putting a product on the ice to put fannies in the seats. This is not Pittsburgh, NJ or LI where you can tank it and nobody cares. Sather is no different than any of his 29 peers. Sometimes you swing and hit a HR, sometimes you whiff.

Through it all he's still retained his trade capabilities. Seldom has he been on the wrong side. Now witht he right coach and quality personnel people decisions and direction are made easier. Sure he's made some really bad signings, but so have the guys across the rivers and no one says squat about them. One of them has had more coaches than carter has pills.

In the end you win some you lose some. Along the way you hope you've gotten smarter. The Cap has made a huge difference and I think he's learned. We've never been cap impaired but the one guy thought to be a genius finds himself once again in cap hell for the 3rd time! We've yet to lose a draft pick let alone a couple of 1st rounders for screwing up signings.

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07-02-2011, 07:00 PM
  #71
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Sather still overpaid him, just not in dollars. 9 years is a ridiculous length.

That being said, I still like the job he's done in the offseason for the last 3 years running now beginning with the Gomez-Gaborik moves.

Also, we still need to see what the NMC/NTC structure is.
Its market value. That's the market trend, long term contracts.

In fact, we got Richards at BELOW market value. Anything under 7 per is below market value for a player of Richards caliber.

Its an outstanding contract. Heavily front loaded so moving him later isn't as difficult.

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07-02-2011, 07:05 PM
  #72
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I think when Maloney was Assistant GM he kept Slats in check. And now that Torts has been here a few years, he is keeping Slats in check.

If you notice, when Maloney left, the 2007/08 off seasons were kinda a disaster with the Gomez/Drury/Naslund/Redden signings and getting rid of Jagr. If we didn't do all those stupid signings, we could've signed Jagr easily to a 4 year deal, and I think that would've helped the kids come along a lot nicer and we probably wouldn't have missed the playoffs 2 seasons ago.

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07-02-2011, 11:58 PM
  #73
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sather is a terrible gm. torts should be given more credit for richards than sather. everyone thinks he has improved... we missed the playoffs 2 seasons ago, then finished 8th and then lost in the 1st round... again. sorry, but that is not improving. we could win the cup next season and i would still want sather gone. signing brad richards and drafting better is not going to make me forget how ****** he is.

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07-03-2011, 12:07 AM
  #74
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sather is a terrible gm. torts should be given more credit for richards than sather. everyone thinks he has improved... we missed the playoffs 2 seasons ago, then finished 8th and then lost in the 1st round... again. sorry, but that is not improving. we could win the cup next season and i would still want sather gone. signing brad richards and drafting better is not going to make me forget how ****** he is.
Who hired Torts? And then you go on to basically say that if Sather does everything perfectly from now on you'll still want him gone. I really don't know why I even bothered to respond to such a stupid post. Unless Sather personally ****ed you or your family over somehow you're more an anti-Sather fan than a Ranger fan, assuming you weren't lying in this post.

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07-03-2011, 12:22 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
Who hired Torts? And then you go on to basically say that if Sather does everything perfectly from now on you'll still want him gone. I really don't know why I even bothered to respond to such a stupid post. Unless Sather personally ****ed you or your family over somehow you're more an anti-Sather fan than a Ranger fan, assuming you weren't lying in this post.
horrible. who hired torts? that response makes me sick. brad richards didnt come here because of glen sather stupid. also, sather didnt hire torts to get richards here. while were at it, do you want to go down the list of everyone else sather has hired? drury, gomez, redden. and oh yea the classy move of dropping betts and signing brashear. 2 series wins in 10 years, yea glen is doing a great job.

the guy is an embarrasment, as is your who hired torts remark. going back and fixing the terrible mistakes he has made is not improving. making a deep playoff run and winning is improving. he has done such a bad job that even if he improved, he still sucks.

and dont spin my hatred for sather into im not a ranger fan.


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