HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Glen Sather

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-03-2011, 12:40 AM
  #76
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
 
Tawnos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 12,057
vCash: 500
I get the people who think Sather has done and even is currently doing a bad job. The vitriol is way over the top though.

Tawnos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2011, 12:56 AM
  #77
MSG the place to be*
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,783
vCash: 500
nevermind

MSG the place to be* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2011, 12:59 AM
  #78
broadwayblue
Registered User
 
broadwayblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 15,749
vCash: 500

broadwayblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2011, 01:22 AM
  #79
Vito Andolini
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 923
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
No, they just shouldn't have signed Gaborik, and instead waited the following season and pursued Kovalchuk, who would have preferred to play here than NJ.
I'm no Gaborik fan, but it's hard for me to complain about his acquisition. In my eyes, he essentially replaced Gomez. If Sather doesn't decide to sign Gaborik that off-season, he very well may have not seen the need to trade Gomez either...which of course would have been a huge disaster.

Vito Andolini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2011, 01:38 AM
  #80
Kel Varnsen
Below: Nash's Heart
 
Kel Varnsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,108
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by devito1192 View Post
horrible. who hired torts? that response makes me sick. brad richards didnt come here because of glen sather stupid. also, sather didnt hire torts to get richards here. while were at it, do you want to go down the list of everyone else sather has hired? drury, gomez, redden. and oh yea the classy move of dropping betts and signing brashear. 2 series wins in 10 years, yea glen is doing a great job.

the guy is an embarrasment, as is your who hired torts remark. going back and fixing the terrible mistakes he has made is not improving. making a deep playoff run and winning is improving. he has done such a bad job that even if he improved, he still sucks.

and dont spin my hatred for sather into im not a ranger fan.
Either my "Who hired torts?" comment went straight over your head or you're intentionally misunderstanding it because you have no good counter point to make. I never said Sather hired torts only because he coached richards before. That wasn't even remotely the point of asking, "Who hired torts?" You were saying Torts deserves the credit I'm attributing to Sather. So now comes my comment, "Who hired Torts?" If you give an employee credit for something, you also must recognize that the man who hired him pick a good person for the job. Torts reports to Sather. The buck stops here. Here being GM Glen Sather.

Now about your true allegiances, you said even if Sather led this team to a cup you would still want him gone. And you call yourself a Rangers fan? Have you no sense of decency sir? Have you no decency?


Last edited by Kel Varnsen: 07-03-2011 at 01:43 AM.
Kel Varnsen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2011, 01:53 AM
  #81
chip chipperson*
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 2,033
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
Either my "Who hired torts?" comment went straight over your head or you're intentionally misunderstanding it because you have no good counter point to make. I never said Sather hired torts only because he coached richards before. That wasn't even remotely the point of asking, "Who hired torts?" You were saying Torts deserves the credit I'm attributing to Sather. So now comes my comment, "Who hired Torts?" If you give an employee credit for something, you also must recognize that the man who hired him pick a good person for the job. Torts reports to Sather. The buck stops here. Here being GM Glen Sather.

Now about your true allegiances, you said even if Sather led this team to a cup you would still want him gone. And you call yourself a Rangers fan? Have you no sense of decency sir? Have you no decency?
i said torts deserves more credit than sather. get it right.

and i completly understand your who hired torts comment but lets take it further. who hired torts, sather, who hired sather and let him get away with murder... dolan. so by your logic dolan is a good owner. so once again your who hired torts comment remains stupid.

gms do not lead teams to cups. i guess according to you messier didnt lead us to a cup in 94, neil smith did. sather is an ******* and a bad gm, i realize it, you dont. lets look at the best players on the team. henrik... drafted by accident. sather became the luckiest guy in the world drafting him. gabby.. sather picked him up even with his injury history because he was in panic mode and had to do something. and now brad richards who i attribute more to torts than sather. if this team wins, it is more by luck/ coincidence when it comes to sather. the credit goes to players/coaches. sather can go **** himself. we could win the cup next day sather retires and we would be an even better team.

chip chipperson* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2011, 01:59 AM
  #82
chip chipperson*
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 2,033
vCash: 500
he sucks and if anyone defends him, they are defending losing. if torts wasnt our coach richards wouldnt be here. and when torts was hired sather wasnt thinking if i hire torts he could attract richards. going back and fixing mistakes is not improving. again he has been so ****** that he can improve and still suck.


Last edited by chip chipperson*: 07-03-2011 at 02:16 AM.
chip chipperson* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2011, 02:03 AM
  #83
nyr2k2
Can't Beat Him
 
nyr2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 23,732
vCash: 910
Awards:
His job isn't to put together an organization that looks good on paper, but rather one that wins games. We seem to be well on our way to winning games, yes, but until we put together a deep playoff run, I'll temper my praise.

nyr2k2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2011, 03:24 AM
  #86
NYR Sting
Heart and Soul
 
NYR Sting's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 9,506
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laces out Dan View Post
Your words in bold are describing a sniper. You have a guy like that, you get them a play making center. Kovalchuk is a completely different player than Gaborik, not sure why you're going to great lengths to compare apples and grapefruits. Even still, as phenomenal as Kovalchuk's skill is, and it is, I still wouldn't want him anywhere near this team.
Well, that's my point. They are two different types of players, and I'd much rather have the more versatile, more dangerous, and more difficult to stop of the two, and that is Kovalchuk.

Quote:
Kovalev is, was, and always will be garbage. The guy was super skilled, but garbage nonetheless... selfish and somewhere between half-interested and completely disinterested. But you are correct, Kovalev and Kovalchuk are similar: without winners around them neither guy will ever win anything.
But that doesn't change the fact that when they are surrounded by winners, they play. So, realistically, their lack of interest in playing when there is nothing on the line shouldn't be a problem, as long as the team paying them is serious about winning. Most players who don't give enough effort are not worth the trouble. Some mega talents, however, are. If I was a contending team looking for skill, I would sign Kovalev in a heart beat. Maybe not so much anymore because at this point he is quite old, but 2 or 3 years ago? No hesitation. Even today, at 38 years of age, he's a better passer than 95% of the league.

Quote:
Skill alone does not win championships. Winning is a mindset and a culture, something that skill compliments. There's a reason winning magically followed guys like Messier, Trottier and Roy around. There's also a reason VERY skilled teams - San Jose, Ottawa a few years back - don't win when it matters. Losing is a mindset and a culture also.
Yeah, the reason is they were all incredible players and they all won while playing with other, usually even more, incredible players.

Quote:
And all those excuses you're making for Kovalchuk, I would ask which season exactly was Gaborik playing on a star-studded team where he had any real support? Because I must've missed it.
I must have missed when Gaborik won anything. Neither have ever had much support, and not surprisingly, neither has ever won anything. That, however, doesn't change the fact that Kovalchuk is better than Gaborik.

Quote:
And for all the comparison of Kovalchuk's and Gaborik's play styles, the end results aren't all too different. Since Kovalchuk entered the league, he is .53 GPG and .47 APG and Gaborik is .47 GPG and .47 APG in that time frame. Not seeing almost any difference. Yes, Kovalchuk is much less a health risk, but he has a loser, me-me-me cloud on him and I never see the guy ever winning anything. Gaborik is always an injury waiting to happen, for sure, but he plays a much more complete game and is a team player. I will take Gaborik, injury risks and all, over Kovalchuk any day of the week. But that's just me.
It's hard not to be seen as a loser when you've only played on terrible teams. Also, Gaborik had the benefit of playing most of his career under Lemaire, a great coach who tailored a system that was perfect for Gaborik. Kovalchuk has spent the bulk of his career playing for some horrendously coached, not to mention managed, Atlanta teams.

We'll see how big of a loser Kovalchuk is in a few years. My guess is he'll shake that loser tag pretty quickly once the Devils finish restocking. I don't know that playing more defense means that Gaborik plays a more complete game, since offensively, Kovalchuk's arsenal > Gaborik's. I don't really care that Gaborik can play adequate defense. That's not really what I'm looking for from him. Great all-around teams can afford to have one or even two weak links defensively. Great goaltending and great team defense can make up for that, and sometimes the chance to gain phenomenal offense is worth that. Pavel Bure and Jaromir Jagr never played any defense, either.

NYR Sting is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2011, 04:17 AM
  #87
Kwayry
Take the damn deal
 
Kwayry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Plano
Country: United States
Posts: 2,914
vCash: 500
Sather has done a better job recently, but he had some doozies. I understood the logic begind Gomez and Drury's contracts, but I never understood the Redden signing and he is still there, buried in the minors. The Brashear signing was an insult to the fans after the blindside hit to Betts. He has few more magic tricks to perform before he gets the thumbs up from me.

Kwayry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2011, 04:20 AM
  #88
mrjimmyg89
'13-'14 East Champs
 
mrjimmyg89's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,871
vCash: 500
This seems to be a different Sather getting to listen to him talk about the FA signings, the guys on the team last season, and the guys who could make the team. Never would I have thought that Sather would be someone to say that we might have a solution for a spot on the top line within the organization (That means you Dubi and Wolski, and at some point Kreider).

He seems to be becoming more shrewd when it comes to making FA signings that he was even just a few years ago when he signed Redden. Saying we won't look to sign another big FA to fill in a hole on the roster is a big movement forward for him.

If we limit the FA signings, and let Glen work his magic on the phone with other GM's, this team will be heading in the right direction with him at the helm, as weird as that might sound.

Is the cap in the NHL making him become this type of GM? Sure, it changed the way all the other GMs have to operate. You think if there was no cap that a team like Vancouver wouldn't try and get another impact player from the market or via trade to get them over the small hump they need to get over?

Sather ****ed up royally after the lockout. We could be 2 years further into this "retooling" phase as I like to call it, but you can't change the past. Now, I think it's pretty safe to say we can trust Sather with signing players who are UFA's. He doesn't want to overpay them. He wants players that want to be in NY. Part of this is Torts philosophy, but he's as big of a part of it. I think Mike Rupp is worth the 1.5 million, for what he does and the cap where it is, he a good investment at 1.5 million. He also wanted to play in NY. As long as he KEEPS some of the cap that he'd save from not getting that LW to play with Gaborik and Richards UNTIL a vital need opens up again OR someone is due a raise, will we finally know that he's completely changed his philosophy.

Right now, he's done all the right things in the past 2 off-seasons. As long as he doesn't **** up with any of the RFA's, he'll get an A in terms of how he handled this offseason. It's only taken him 5 years to figure out the cap, which is a pretty long time. Luckily for the future, it seems like we'll see a lot less Reddens and Drurys than we will Richards and Gaboriks

mrjimmyg89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2011, 04:24 AM
  #89
NYR Sting
Heart and Soul
 
NYR Sting's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 9,506
vCash: 500
I feel that a lot of it is Tortorella, and that Sather has stopped following through on some of his own ideas.

NYR Sting is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2011, 04:26 AM
  #90
Kwayry
Take the damn deal
 
Kwayry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Plano
Country: United States
Posts: 2,914
vCash: 500
As long as we are on the hook for Redden's contract. Sather is on the other side of the tracks.

Kwayry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2011, 05:00 AM
  #91
Swept In Seven
Disciple of The Zook
 
Swept In Seven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 9,391
vCash: 500
Is Sather been terrible throughout his tenure as the NYR GM? The answer to that would be yes.

Has Sather started to turn it around and actually build a winner instead of buying one? The answer to that would be yes as well.

I dislike Sather as much as everyone else, but he should get some praise for being able to fix his mistakes and build his team with homegrown talent and good FA aquisitions.

Swept In Seven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2011, 07:41 AM
  #92
GAGLine
Registered User
 
GAGLine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 9,316
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
sure we could have. just dont sign Frolov, Prospal and Christensen. theres your Kovalchuk cap hit and then some.
So Kovalchuk would have filled 3 roster spots?

GAGLine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2011, 08:55 AM
  #93
jas
Unsatisfied
 
jas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 13,195
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjimmyg89 View Post
This seems to be a different Sather getting to listen to him talk about the FA signings, the guys on the team last season, and the guys who could make the team. Never would I have thought that Sather would be someone to say that we might have a solution for a spot on the top line within the organization (That means you Dubi and Wolski, and at some point Kreider).

He seems to be becoming more shrewd when it comes to making FA signings that he was even just a few years ago when he signed Redden. Saying we won't look to sign another big FA to fill in a hole on the roster is a big movement forward for him.

If we limit the FA signings, and let Glen work his magic on the phone with other GM's, this team will be heading in the right direction with him at the helm, as weird as that might sound.

Is the cap in the NHL making him become this type of GM? Sure, it changed the way all the other GMs have to operate. You think if there was no cap that a team like Vancouver wouldn't try and get another impact player from the market or via trade to get them over the small hump they need to get over?

Sather ****ed up royally after the lockout. We could be 2 years further into this "retooling" phase as I like to call it, but you can't change the past. Now, I think it's pretty safe to say we can trust Sather with signing players who are UFA's. He doesn't want to overpay them. He wants players that want to be in NY. Part of this is Torts philosophy, but he's as big of a part of it. I think Mike Rupp is worth the 1.5 million, for what he does and the cap where it is, he a good investment at 1.5 million. He also wanted to play in NY. As long as he KEEPS some of the cap that he'd save from not getting that LW to play with Gaborik and Richards UNTIL a vital need opens up again OR someone is due a raise, will we finally know that he's completely changed his philosophy.

Right now, he's done all the right things in the past 2 off-seasons. As long as he doesn't **** up with any of the RFA's, he'll get an A in terms of how he handled this offseason. It's only taken him 5 years to figure out the cap, which is a pretty long time. Luckily for the future, it seems like we'll see a lot less Reddens and Drurys than we will Richards and Gaboriks
I think part of the reason for that was the unexpected success of the Jagr-led teams coming straight out of the lockout. The Rangers caught lightning in the bottle, and Sather saw a chance to build upon that success, which led to the awful signings of Gomez, Drury and Redden. The ultimate reason for those signings, though, comes down to the poor drafting that took place from 2000-3. If there were legitimate prospects ready to join the lineup in 2005-6, by the time the Rangers reached that point when the pursued Gomez and Drury, they likely don't have to gamble on such signings. Yes, Staal, Girardi, Callahan and Dubinsky were filtered in, but, aside from Staal, you don't have players that were ready-made NHLers.

jas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2011, 09:07 AM
  #94
Levitate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 20,985
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
Sather has done a better job recently, but he had some doozies. I understood the logic begind Gomez and Drury's contracts, but I never understood the Redden signing and he is still there, buried in the minors. The Brashear signing was an insult to the fans after the blindside hit to Betts. He has few more magic tricks to perform before he gets the thumbs up from me.
I agree in general. I like a lot of what Sather has done lately, but some of those UFA signings are just bad. I railed against signing Redden before it happened because I knew it would be one we would regret, but no he goes and gives Redden huge money.

But....he did revamp the Rangers scouting and bring in guys who are doing a good job now. Yes there were some bad drafting years, but it takes some time to rebuild the scouting system and really start hitting things well with your scouting.

After last season, I see a team that's been built around young drafted players with Sather trying to add in the missing pieces via free agency, which I think is how it should be done.

He's doing alright these days. Still not perfect and still makes some wild signings and such, but I like a lot o fwhat he does

Levitate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2011, 10:02 AM
  #95
bobbop
Henrik's Pop
 
bobbop's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Suburban Phoenix
Country: United States
Posts: 4,839
vCash: 500
The Sather era breaks into two distinct sections. When he first arrived, he seemed convinced the team was a quick fix or two away from returning to glory and managed accordingly. Free agents, high profile trades and free spending were in vogue. Finally in 2004, he realized it wasn't going to work and he blew the thing up. A clever rebuild with the Czechs surrounding Jagr helped save a few years of misery.

Since the day he arrived in New York, he has always valued building through the draft. It took him a while to get the right scouting and developement hierarchy in place but once he did, that's been a strong area too. And it took a while for the team to adjust to the realities of the new NHL.

Look, a year ago I was fed up with Sather but last years team restored a lot of confidence for me. He has built a strong system. The Rangers may not have a high ceiling talent in their system but no team has a deeper and better stocked pipeline. As I have quoted here in other threads, an NHL scout has told me that no team has more NHL talent coming than the Rangers. For once, the Rangers have built from within and added key pieces in free agency to get them over the top. These are "Our Guys".

I am fully convinced this team will seriously contend for the Stanley Cup in the next two years. They may still lack 1-2 pieces but the odds are very good those pieces are in the system and not far away.

Well done, Sather.

bobbop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2011, 10:20 AM
  #96
eco's bones
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Elmira NY
Country: United States
Posts: 12,672
vCash: 500
The last few years has been a lot of good drafting--very good player development and damage control for the UFA mistakes he's made. He's pulled off some good deals but the signings of Redden, Gomez, Kotalik, Drury have tarnished it all. Prior to the lockout he was an absolute disaster.

eco's bones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2011, 10:25 AM
  #97
jas
Unsatisfied
 
jas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 13,195
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
The Sather era breaks into two distinct sections. When he first arrived, he seemed convinced the team was a quick fix or two away from returning to glory and managed accordingly. Free agents, high profile trades and free spending were in vogue. Finally in 2004, he realized it wasn't going to work and he blew the thing up. A clever rebuild with the Czechs surrounding Jagr helped save a few years of misery.

Since the day he arrived in New York, he has always valued building through the draft. It took him a while to get the right scouting and developement hierarchy in place but once he did, that's been a strong area too. And it took a while for the team to adjust to the realities of the new NHL.

Look, a year ago I was fed up with Sather but last years team restored a lot of confidence for me. He has built a strong system. The Rangers may not have a high ceiling talent in their system but no team has a deeper and better stocked pipeline. As I have quoted here in other threads, an NHL scout has told me that no team has more NHL talent coming than the Rangers. For once, the Rangers have built from within and added key pieces in free agency to get them over the top. These are "Our Guys".

I am fully convinced this team will seriously contend for the Stanley Cup in the next two years. They may still lack 1-2 pieces but the odds are very good those pieces are in the system and not far away.

Well done, Sather.

That is very encouraging to hear. And, I agree...this team got a lot closer to winning a Cup with this signing. For now, I'm willing to sit back and let the team coalesce, see where the flaws are, and then make necessary additions nearer the trade deadline. No need to start trading off assets now, when some of these could very well be in house.

I like this observation from Spector at the Daily News -

Spector

Quote:
The Rangers still need more scoring from the left side and more size on the blue line. In another year, they may have both with their impressively developing 2009 and 2010 first-round picks, Chris Kreider and Dylan McIlrath. Richards is not the last piece of the championship puzzle for the Rangers, but he fits, and that already sets him apart from so many of the well-paid men who preceded him
.

jas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2011, 10:34 AM
  #98
cenas*
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Country: Finland
Posts: 1,388
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Also, Gaborik had the benefit of playing most of his career under Lemaire, a great coach who tailored a system that was perfect for Gaborik.
Trap teams really do bring out the best in dynamic offense first guys.. wait, no they don't. Stop the trolling, you devils fans are intolerable..

cenas* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2011, 10:39 AM
  #99
Blue Line Monster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 241
vCash: 500
Sather hasn't done anything notable besides finding a bunch of different ways to barely squeak into the playoffs. And this with more resources than most GM's in the league.

Blue Line Monster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2011, 10:45 AM
  #100
Maineice11
Registered User
 
Maineice11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Maine
Country: United States
Posts: 6,386
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Maineice11
Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
The last few years has been a lot of good drafting--very good player development and damage control for the UFA mistakes he's made. He's pulled off some good deals but the signings of Redden, Gomez, Kotalik, Drury have tarnished it all. Prior to the lockout he was an absolute disaster.
I just want to analyze those signings you pointed out, and i know there are some others but those few are probably the worst.

Redden awful, agreed.

Gomez, traded to montreal for mcd wow, how did sather pull that off, great dman that is a great young dman, and with that open space from trading gomez we got gabby, who had a great first season, and a rocky second, but should bounce back big time this upcoming season.

Kotalik (and higgins), traded to calgary for jokinen(bust, not helpful down the stretch, puck on his stick at the end of the season in a shootout, which lost the rangers the chance at playing in the playoffs) and PRUST(who has been an unbelievable addition to this team)

Drury, he did have couple first good seasons here, and throughout his entire time as a ranger he taught the young players leadership, sportsmanship, i think those qualities that rubbed off on the young players are huge in how this team moves forward and hopefully succeeds. However, i believe he cost too much. I grew up in the same area he did and started playing hockey in the same rink he started in(I'm over 10 years younger than him tho), so i will have a soft spot for the guy. I feel that he should have retired because it sure sounded like he has injury issues because of his age, but if he still feels he can play then i don't blame him for what he did and hope he gets another chance, if not then the buyout looks awful.

Maineice11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:27 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.