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The reason why the Habs wanted Hamrlik back

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Old
07-03-2011, 12:43 PM
  #26
Ozymandias
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
The OP's argument acknowledges minutes played and the influence of forwards but it neglects (understandably so) other factors: the goaltenders, the defense partners, and the defensive responsibilities (e.g., playing against the opponent's top line). Aside from that, how does the Dman fare after the score gets lopsided either way, in which case he naturally plays with less imotivation compared with a tight game.
Go read it again, you missed a part.

Quote:
I will advise that this list comprises mostly top 4 Ds, but it is normal that there are discrepancies, I leave to the posters to place those players into their context (1st/2nd/3rd pairing replacing, sheltered, supports a pair, things like that, what goalie do they play in front of, the other players that make-up their usual 5 men unit).
This is the end result GAA. I said I left the posters the freedom to discern those things. My main argument was with the Habs, the top 50 for the league are there to show comparing points.

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Old
07-03-2011, 12:45 PM
  #27
coolasprICE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
They only offered one year to Gill too.

Kinda normal when players are pass 35 years old. We've heard so much about how it's so perilous to sign them to multi year contracts.


It's very telling that instead of telling us again how Gill is so much better than Hamrlik, you use a sarcasm to run away from the facts. The only thing Gill is better at is the PK, for the rest, Hamr hands down. Deal with it.
the only thing I have to deal with are the facts that our GM offered a 1 year to Gill, right off the bat...

Hamrlik got 1 year, days prior to the deadline... despite his tenure.


I think it's clear where the priority was.

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07-03-2011, 12:48 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
the only thing I have to deal with are the facts that our GM offered a 1 year to Gill, right off the bat...

Hamrlik got 1 year, days prior to the deadline... despite his tenure.


I think it's clear where the priority was.
They signed Markov at the end of June.

Nice try, but that's just some overly-simplistic assumptions you made. I don't expect any better from you.

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07-03-2011, 12:50 PM
  #29
coolasprICE
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
They signed Markov at the end of June.

Nice try, but that's just some overly-simplistic assumptions you made. I don't expect any better from you.
i like how you're ignoring the fact that Markov has health issues, and insurance implications...

talk about conveniently sneaking around reality

Not to mention, the contract amount is not even in the same league.

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Old
07-03-2011, 12:56 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
i like how you're ignoring the fact that Markov has health issues, and insurance implications...

talk about conveniently sneaking around reality

Not to mention, the contract amount is not even in the same league.
Like conveniently sneaking around the reality that you think your assumptions are facts, constantly.

Stats like this don't lie. Gill can't do what Hamr does at ES, he's not even close.

Also, Hamr was reported getting more $ than Gill.... I wonder why...

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07-03-2011, 12:57 PM
  #31
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I think it would have been better to have an $850,000 player in Gill's spot (e.g. Diaz, Weber, Carle), this would have allowed us to keep Hamrlik. He rejected a 1-year contract at (3.5 million?), but it is unlikely he would have rejected a 1-year contract at 5.5 million.

Maybe Gauthier values Gill's size.

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Old
07-03-2011, 12:57 PM
  #32
SAKS AVENUE
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Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
Bouillon?

It's funny with Boullion. I guess because he was a small cube shaped fellow, no one ever really payed attention to him because he didn't fit the mold of a "STUD" as many call them around here, and god forbid a 2 million dollar price tag.

I thought the cube was great. Not once did I ever feel he hurt the team. He was fast, strong in the corners, hard nosed defenseman.

My favorite part was when it came to scraps he would always surprise everyone by beating the piss out of them. Even Colton Orr was left thinking damn this guy has some power.

I guess we were too busy fluffing Komi at the time.

Good on the Cube though. I'd take him back to replace Space goat any day. Even at 2 mill.

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Old
07-03-2011, 01:08 PM
  #33
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Even prior to opening this thread I thought we'd need to go after Kaberle considering losing Wiz and Hammer. That having been said though he may cost a hefty penny. Let's hope his non signing is the sign of no interest rather than a lot of interest

He can step up offensively and play well defensively too. Only problem I see really is how much he'd command. Is Kaberle at 5 million per (4-5 year) really > The Wiz at 5.5-6 over 6? I don't think he is given our style of team. We need a shooter on the back end but heck if we're talking defensively I guess Kaberle would fill that specific role better. That having been said though 5 mil for Kaberle is extreme overpayment imo. Given his age the terms could be a nightmare also. I just hope if we do get him he plays well and it's good dollars and terms.

This thread is very telling though I must say. We definitely need to pay somebody with that cap room anyways.

Cammy-Plek-Cole
Pacioretty-Gomez-Gionta
Darche-DD-Kostitsyn (Eller when he returns)
Moen-Engvist-White

Markov-Emelin
Kaberle-Subban
Gill-Gorges
Weber
Spacek (traded)

EDIT: Hey check it out even the habs official page considers Hammer leaving to be the biggest void :laugh

http://canadiens.nhl.com/club/news.h...id=DL|MTL|home

Out of respect they gave him two lines!

Also yes I'd take Boullion over Spacek even at the same salary. He isn't big but make no mistake he does add toughness.


Last edited by neofury*: 07-03-2011 at 01:18 PM.
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Old
07-03-2011, 01:15 PM
  #34
Whitesnake
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If the Habs would REALLY have wanted Hamrlik back...they would have given him the 2 years he clearly wanted. As I said it already, contrary to most, I know I WOULD.

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07-03-2011, 01:19 PM
  #35
coolasprICE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Like conveniently sneaking around the reality that you think your assumptions are facts, constantly.
What assumptions?

It's fact, that Hamrlik fizzles out come playoff time if we over extend him throughout the season.

It's fact that to get the best out of Hamrlik come playoff time, we better hope to not have injuries and that he's rested otherwise he'll cost us games.

It's fact that in the next 2 years, he'll only get worse, not better... as he relies less on size but more on his declining mobility.

It's fact that his demands for contract were not in line to what our GM was willing to offer.

It's fact that our GM see's better value in Gill, hence why Gill is returning.


Hamrlik is good if used sparingly; but for this role, the value that Gill brings (salary and PK expertise / shutdown expertise / proven playoff performer / leadership) it's really no surprise why he was the 1st to be offered AND signed.

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Old
07-03-2011, 01:20 PM
  #36
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This is a great thread Oz-man, as long as people can take into context.

I was on board with Hammer coming back for one year. We'll find out in a few months if we we're wrong to not bring him back.

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Old
07-03-2011, 01:20 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
If the Habs would REALLY have wanted Hamrlik back...they would have given him the 2 years he clearly wanted. As I said it already, contrary to most, I know I WOULD.
Good post.

Many would rather Hamrlik, many would have wanted him to return for 2 years... however, at least you are objective enough to realize that our MGMT does not share such opinion.

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Old
07-03-2011, 01:22 PM
  #38
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yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
If the Habs would REALLY have wanted Hamrlik back...they would have given him the 2 years he clearly wanted. As I said it already, contrary to most, I know I WOULD.
Agreed! He was the insurance policy of our defense line. He's good at everything and very reliable. Doesn't play much like an old guy.

I would have felt comfortable with him for 2 years. Diaz, Weber and the russian are not ready in my opinion to fill his shoes.

The only positive thing with him leaving is that young players will have more time.

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07-03-2011, 01:49 PM
  #39
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No needs for the fancy stats work to know that Hamrlik was an essential piece of the Habs D in the last few years.

With Markov (twice) and Gorges injured for so many games, he was the anchor of the defence corp.

I dunno know if I should blame the org to not have offered him a two-year contract, or blame Hamrlik for such a demand.

One thing is sure, we gonna miss him dearly.

I have no confidence that Markov and Gorges are 100% healthy;

I have no confidence that Yemelin and Diaz are NHL ready;

I have strong doubts about Weber capabilities to play a full season;

I have next to no confidence in our geriatric Spacek and Gill to be at least as good (or as bad) as last season.

We have no big, experienced ( a guy between 25-30) presence on the blueline.

I hope Subban won't get hurt or annoyed by the constant attention & abuse (verbal and physical) he's gonna get.


Last edited by habitue*: 07-03-2011 at 02:05 PM.
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Old
07-03-2011, 01:52 PM
  #40
MasterDecoy
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the habs will come to regret not signing this guy next season

edit: also, i can't believe i agree with an ozy post that's not condescending to anybody. shocking...


Last edited by MasterDecoy: 07-03-2011 at 01:58 PM.
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Old
07-03-2011, 01:56 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
I agree with Ozy,

they wanted him back so badly, which is why they offered him only 1 year.

It makes sense, yes.
Maybe they thought a 2 year deal would go to his head and he would get lazy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Windymind View Post
Agreed! He was the insurance policy of our defense line. He's good at everything and very reliable. Doesn't play much like an old guy.

I would have felt comfortable with him for 2 years. Diaz, Weber and the russian are not ready in my opinion to fill his shoes.

The only positive thing with him leaving is that young players will have more time.
Really? How about passing and beating the zambonie in a race? Two things he is not good at.

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Old
07-03-2011, 02:24 PM
  #42
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He's a solid, steady d-man, but when you get to the age that he is at, the bottom could fall out at any moment, so I dont blame the habs for not offering him more than 1 year.

His service throughout the contract was generally rock solid, and I think the caps have had their eye on him ever since the job he spacek did on ovechkin's line in the 09/10 playoffs.

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Old
07-03-2011, 02:35 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Lidstrom had the toughest quality of compitition metrics of any defenseman at even strength last season. That largely explains the lackluster defensive numbers.
For that reason, among others, I find this to be a deeply flawed analysis. I don't find it any more telling than +/-. However, kudos to Ozy for compiling the stats nonetheless.

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Old
07-03-2011, 02:40 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
For that reason, among others, I find this to be a deeply flawed analysis. I don't find it any more telling than +/-. However, kudos to Ozy for compiling the stats nonetheless.
To be fair, Ozymidas is also right. Lidstrom isn't as good as he used to be. He's shrunk from league dominant force to top level number one defenseman. IMO Chara probably did more for his team than Lidstrom did last season. Chara had to cover for some terrible defensive depth on the Bruins by playing huge minutes. They don't win the cup without Chara-Seidenberg both playing 29 minutes a game towards the end, their lesser lights would have gotten torched.

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Old
07-03-2011, 02:42 PM
  #45
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I would of offered a 2 year deal at 3M per and not signed Gill if I was the GM.

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Old
07-03-2011, 02:50 PM
  #46
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I Have been saying all along that Hammer will be extremely difficult to replace and Kaberle isn't the right guy for the job. No ty to kabs.

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Old
07-03-2011, 03:00 PM
  #47
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Montreal probably declined giving him a 2 year deal because they probably feel he won't be performing at a high level by then and prefer developing some young guys instead.

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07-03-2011, 03:09 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Gore Habs Go View Post
Montreal probably declined giving him a 2 year deal because they probably feel he won't be performing at a high level by then and prefer developing some young guys instead.
Gill and Spacek have only one more year to go.

Next year (2012-13) they would have had Markov, Gorges, Subban + the youngsters

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Old
07-03-2011, 03:11 PM
  #49
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Anyone else notice Mike Greens numbers... for all the hate he gets about his defensive play his stats are pretty good.

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Old
07-03-2011, 03:30 PM
  #50
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Hamrlik was an excellent player for us. With Markov gone, Hamr was it. He will be missed.

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