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Old
07-03-2011, 02:47 PM
  #751
JoeFlyer
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Trade Schenn? Why the hell do we do that?
Just putting it out there, seems a bit pointless to have Schenn and Couturier (if both could make the team now - and Schenn must be able too) and have Briere and Giroux. All of them are top 2 line centres (eventually)... even when Briere goes you'd have 3... Schenn eats most cap and has more significant trade value... I suppose Giroux could go back to wing? Not a fan or Briere there though... And I only meant trade him for really decent return...

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07-03-2011, 02:47 PM
  #752
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
There is a clear reason why he got limited amount of ice time... and why no body has signed him yet.
I never understood why his ice time was so limited. He has the skill, and he had chemistry with Giroux, Richards and Briere. He's a skilled player, with an unreached potential, imo. He needs to be given the opportunity to prove himself, and I dont think the FLyers ever really gave him that. THe only one thing bad I remember was about his attitude, when he wasn't around to play for a game, when he was with the club, and there was a last minute injury scratch. So, if there is a knock on him, of which I'm aware, it may be his personality as a team player, other than those areas of his game of which needed improvement, which all players have. Even still, some players need more time, patience and assistance (coaching) with their development. I never really felt like the FLyers gave Zherdev a real opportunity to thrive and develop his game, period.... <- period.


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07-03-2011, 02:51 PM
  #753
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Originally Posted by JoeFlyer View Post
Just putting it out there, seems a bit pointless to have Schenn and Couturier (if both could make the team now - and Schenn must be able too) and have Briere and Giroux. All of them are top 2 line centres (eventually)... even when Briere goes you'd have 3... Schenn eats most cap and has more significant trade value... I suppose Giroux could go back to wing? Not a fan or Briere there though... And I only meant trade him for really decent return...
pointless? Briere and Giroux also play wing!

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07-03-2011, 02:57 PM
  #754
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Originally Posted by JoeFlyer View Post
Just putting it out there, seems a bit pointless to have Schenn and Couturier (if both could make the team now - and Schenn must be able too) and have Briere and Giroux. All of them are top 2 line centres (eventually)... even when Briere goes you'd have 3... Schenn eats most cap and has more significant trade value... I suppose Giroux could go back to wing? Not a fan or Briere there though... And I only meant trade him for really decent return...
If Schenn can reach his potenial, he could be as important as Giroux or Briere. The main piece in the Richards trade should not being going anywhere.

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Originally Posted by smacklby View Post
I never understood why his ice time was so limited. He has the skill, and he had chemistry with Giroux, Richards and Briere. He's a skilled player, with an unreached potential, imo. He needs to be given the opportunity to prove himself, and I dont think the FLyers ever really gave him that. THe only one thing bad I remember was about his attitude, when he wasn't around to play for a game, when he was with the club, and there was a last minute injury scratch. So, if there is a knock on him, of which I'm aware, it may be his personality as a team player, other than those areas of his game of which needed improvement, which all players have. Still some players need more time, patience and assistance (coaching) with their development. I never really felt like the FLyers gave Zherdev a real opportunity to thrive and develop his game, period.... <- period.
You mean, never given a opportunity on the Blue Jackets, Rangers, Flyers and his KHL team right? It wasnt that, he just wasnt good enough? He isnt a young kid. He is turning 27 this year. The Flyers play a fast, hard paced style that one needs to play not only offense but defense. Zherdev felt like he didnt need to do that, and it showed in his play when the whole team was back and he was still chilling near center ice waiting for a home run pass. He also tried to do everything himself. I lost count the number of times he would try to dangle around 2-3 players from our blueline to theirs and lose the puck along the way.

Zherdev was given the opportunity on 4 different teams. It isnt the teams' fault that he didnt reach it. You know what they say, has the tools but not the toolbox.

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07-03-2011, 02:58 PM
  #755
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Originally Posted by smacklby View Post
pointless? Briere and Giroux also play wing!
Briere sucks on the wing... Giroux I could deal with... Still not convinced he's as good there though... I just don't think you need that many young centres...

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07-03-2011, 03:01 PM
  #756
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Originally Posted by JoeFlyer View Post
Briere sucks on the wing... Giroux I could deal with... Still not convinced he's as good there though... I just don't think you need that many young centres...
Schenn is important for his defensive play, as he matures, will be greatly needed in the future. Players that put up points but play defense are important.

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07-03-2011, 03:06 PM
  #757
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Schenn is important for his defensive play, as he matures, will be greatly needed in the future. Players that put up points but play defense are important.
Without doubt, but it sounds like Couturier is similar... I'm not saying I want him gone but for the right deal I think it should be considered...

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07-03-2011, 03:06 PM
  #758
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Originally Posted by JoeFlyer View Post
Briere sucks on the wing... Giroux I could deal with... Still not convinced he's as good there though... I just don't think you need that many young centres...
Briere only has four years left on his deal though. Let Couturier develop a bit before you throw him on the team.

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07-03-2011, 03:14 PM
  #759
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Originally Posted by Ghost of Downie View Post
Briere only has four years left on his deal though. Let Couturier develop a bit before you throw him on the team.
And then you have 3 long term centres comanding lots of monies... If Giroux really is as effective on the wing then fine... Just like him to get settled on one poition...

Near future top 6 of something like:
Hartnell-Briere-Voracek/Giroux
JVR-Schenn-Grioux/Voracek

I'm not sold on those lines though for some reason, might just be me though?... If we are rebuilding then I'd like it all done at once

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Old
07-03-2011, 03:34 PM
  #760
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PHX gets:

Carle
Bobrovsky
Fla 2012 2nd rounder

PHI gets:
Yandle

Sign Emery
Sign Madden
Sign O'Brien
__________________________________

Hartnell 4.2 - Briere 6.5 - Jagr 3.3
JVR 1.654 - Giroux 3.75 - Voracek 2.25
Simmonds 1.8 - Schenn 3.11 - Nodl .845
Betts .7 - Madden 1.2 - Talbot 1.8
Sestito .550

Pronger 4.921 - Yandle 3.6
Timonen 6.333 - Coburn 3.2
Meszaros 4.0 - O'Brien 2.0
Lilja .75

Bryzgalov 5.666
Emery .800

62.929M Dedicated
1.371M Free

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Old
07-03-2011, 03:43 PM
  #761
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Originally Posted by JoeFlyer View Post
And then you have 3 long term centres comanding lots of monies... If Giroux really is as effective on the wing then fine... Just like him to get settled on one poition...

Near future top 6 of something like:
Hartnell-Briere-Voracek/Giroux
JVR-Schenn-Grioux/Voracek

I'm not sold on those lines though for some reason, might just be me though?... If we are rebuilding then I'd like it all done at once
That's worked out horribly for Pittsburgh, hasn't it?

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07-03-2011, 03:52 PM
  #762
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
If Schenn can reach his potenial, he could be as important as Giroux or Briere. The main piece in the Richards trade should not being going anywhere.
Absolutely. Unless there was a player with the same potential and the same relative age, coming back.


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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
You mean, never given a opportunity on the Blue Jackets, Rangers, Flyers and his KHL team right? It wasnt that, he just wasnt good enough? He isnt a young kid. He is turning 27 this year. The Flyers play a fast, hard paced style that one needs to play not only offense but defense. Zherdev felt like he didnt need to do that, and it showed in his play when the whole team was back and he was still chilling near center ice waiting for a home run pass. He also tried to do everything himself. I lost count the number of times he would try to dangle around 2-3 players from our blueline to theirs and lose the puck along the way.

Zherdev was given the opportunity on 4 different teams. It isnt the teams' fault that he didnt reach it. You know what they say, has the tools but not the toolbox.
It's amazing isn't it that we still read that Zherdev hasn't been given a chance. I sometimes wonder what some people see, or if they even know what they're watching. Zherdev is a flat out dog.

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07-03-2011, 03:53 PM
  #763
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Originally Posted by Ghost of Downie View Post
That's worked out horribly for Pittsburgh, hasn't it?
Crosby and Malkin are both elite players, a dead swan taped to a hockey stick would still net at least 20 goals playing next to them... It's not a reasonable comparison... The size of their deals has also stopped them putting togther some awesome lines, I can't see all 3 being there long term, would have though they'd move Staal and get some wingers and run with 2 seriously good lines in the end...

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07-03-2011, 03:57 PM
  #764
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
You mean, never given a opportunity on the Blue Jackets, Rangers, Flyers and his KHL team right? It wasnt that, he just wasnt good enough? He isnt a young kid. He is turning 27 this year. The Flyers play a fast, hard paced style that one needs to play not only offense but defense. Zherdev felt like he didnt need to do that, and it showed in his play when the whole team was back and he was still chilling near center ice waiting for a home run pass. He also tried to do everything himself. I lost count the number of times he would try to dangle around 2-3 players from our blueline to theirs and lose the puck along the way.

Zherdev was given the opportunity on 4 different teams. It isnt the teams' fault that he didnt reach it. You know what they say, has the tools but not the toolbox.
Yeah, those are all good points. I thought he was younger, but yeah, if by 27 you' re still trying to cut corners, rather than play the way the team wants, then there does seem to be some issues there. For the right salary, though, I'd still like to give him another try.....

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07-03-2011, 04:00 PM
  #765
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
It's amazing isn't it that we still read that Zherdev hasn't been given a chance. I sometimes wonder what some people see, or if they even know what they're watching. Zherdev is a flat out dog.
We see the skill level and the potential. But, I guess if after a while the player never learns to use his skill to help the team within the team's system, then there does appear to be some issues with that player. I'd still like to give him another chance, maybe with some better coaching strategies, for the right salary -- it is really hard to just ingnore his skill and his potential.

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Old
07-03-2011, 04:16 PM
  #766
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Originally Posted by JoeFlyer View Post
Crosby and Malkin are both elite players, a dead swan taped to a hockey stick would still net at least 20 goals playing next to them... It's not a reasonable comparison... The size of their deals has also stopped them putting togther some awesome lines, I can't see all 3 being there long term, would have though they'd move Staal and get some wingers and run with 2 seriously good lines in the end...
Actually in 08/09, Sykora was the only winger who netted 20 goals, and Guerin and Fedotenko were the only ones to perform at a 20 goal pace in the playoffs that year.

Still, I don't understand why we want to trade Schenn or Couturier now. If we end up getting killed by the cap, sure, but there's no point right now.

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07-03-2011, 04:24 PM
  #767
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Originally Posted by Ghost of Downie View Post
Actually in 08/09, Sykora was the only winger who netted 20 goals, and Guerin and Fedotenko were the only ones to perform at a 20 goal pace in the playoffs that year.

Still, I don't understand why we want to trade Schenn or Couturier now. If we end up getting killed by the cap, sure, but there's no point right now.
Having thought about it more I guess you're right... I'd just rather have an experienced player/s on the 3rd line but I would be happy to see how Schenn did centring the 2nd between JVR and Giroux, leaving Couturier out to develop more for now...

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Old
07-03-2011, 04:46 PM
  #768
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan808 View Post
PHX gets:

Carle
Bobrovsky
Fla 2012 2nd rounder

PHI gets:
Yandle

Sign Emery
Sign Madden
Sign O'Brien
__________________________________

Hartnell 4.2 - Briere 6.5 - Jagr 3.3
JVR 1.654 - Giroux 3.75 - Voracek 2.25
Simmonds 1.8 - Schenn 3.11 - Nodl .845
Betts .7 - Madden 1.2 - Talbot 1.8
Sestito .550

Pronger 4.921 - Yandle 3.6
Timonen 6.333 - Coburn 3.2
Meszaros 4.0 - O'Brien 2.0
Lilja .75

Bryzgalov 5.666
Emery .800

62.929M Dedicated
1.371M Free
Sign me up for that trade. But Yandle will cost more, OB still blows and isn't worth anywhere near that, Emery will cost more and wants to start.

That trade
+
pay Yandle, Simmonds
+
sign Miettinen
+
Griess

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07-03-2011, 04:50 PM
  #769
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Originally Posted by smacklby View Post
We see the skill level and the potential. But, I guess if after a while the player never learns to use his skill to help the team within the team's system, then there does appear to be some issues with that player. I'd still like to give him another chance, maybe with some better coaching strategies, for the right salary -- it is really hard to just ingnore his skill and his potential.
It has nothing to do with Coaching strategies. He was given a golden oppurtunity with the Flyers. He's a flat out dog and he disgusts me as a player. It's really easy to ignore his skills. What potential? When is he going to get it? He's a piece of crap.

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07-03-2011, 09:23 PM
  #770
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It has nothing to do with Coaching strategies. He was given a golden oppurtunity with the Flyers. He's a flat out dog and he disgusts me as a player. It's really easy to ignore his skills. What potential? When is he going to get it? He's a piece of crap.
A dog? Is that really possible? The dude has skill and talent, that should be apparent to anyone who has seen him play. Maybe he is incapable of seeing the ice and using his teammates, but I would find that very unusual, although not out of the ordinary.

Speaking from personal experience, I have played with players who have the tendency to try to do it all themselves. Often those players will score, but more often they will blow scoring chances because they failed to use teamates. BUT, I have also seen those same players mesh with (develop chemistry with) other players and use them to setup scoring chances. Personally, I don't typically play like that, unless I foresee a break and a scoring chance for myself. Mostly, I look to use my teammates or look to give them an outlet pass, when they are carrying the puck. It is usually too hard to try to do it all yourself.

The key thing is to find a way to break through to players who play in their own zone (mental zone), and get them to focus on using their mates and playing wihtin a structured system. If they can't do that, then maybe they are too stuborn to play team sports. I don't think Zherdev is that brain dense, that he cannot learn to use his mates and play within a structured system, given dedicated coaching.

Lastly, I have seen Zherdev trying to work with his mates to setup scoring chances - in small spurts. He even had a few games, against the Rangers (I beleve), where his backchecking was apparent, and for that matter, impressive. I say coaching strategies, because maybe a good coach can work with him to help him over his shortcommings on the ice.

I wouldn't give up on him, yet. A dog? I don't know about that. Maybe he will prove to be incapable of playing team sports, but I'm not convinced of that, yet.


Last edited by smacklby: 07-03-2011 at 10:24 PM.
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Old
07-03-2011, 09:29 PM
  #771
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Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
Sign me up for that trade. But Yandle will cost more, OB still blows and isn't worth anywhere near that, Emery will cost more and wants to start.

That trade
+
pay Yandle, Simmonds
+
sign Miettinen
+
Griess
This plans works for me.

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Old
07-03-2011, 09:39 PM
  #772
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Zherdev isn't a team player. I don't know how many times the team was trying to push up the ice out of their own zone with Z as the carrier, to encounter this problem:

1) Opposing forwards challenge Zherdev. Instead of passing it up ice, Zherdev circles back around to try again.
2) The rest of the team has to stop at the blue line to wait for Zherdev to continue down the ice
3) He either fails to get it across the blue line, or he passes it to someone else who can't get it across because they've lost all momentum and the opposing team is set and ready.

This scenario happened pretty damned often.

Zherdev single handedly destroys rushes and possible scoring opportunities because he wants to do everything himself instead of passing the puck to a teammate. Sure, he has skill, But he can take that skill somewhere else. I'd rather have someone who plays with the rest of the team.

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07-03-2011, 10:03 PM
  #773
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You have Yandle's number very low IMO.

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07-03-2011, 10:06 PM
  #774
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Zherdev isn't a team player. I don't know how many times the team was trying to push up the ice out of their own zone with Z as the carrier, to encounter this problem:

1) Opposing forwards challenge Zherdev. Instead of passing it up ice, Zherdev circles back around to try again.
2) The rest of the team has to stop at the blue line to wait for Zherdev to continue down the ice
3) He either fails to get it across the blue line, or he passes it to someone else who can't get it across because they've lost all momentum and the opposing team is set and ready.

This scenario happened pretty damned often.

Zherdev single handedly destroys rushes and possible scoring opportunities because he wants to do everything himself instead of passing the puck to a teammate. Sure, he has skill, But he can take that skill somewhere else. I'd rather have someone who plays with the rest of the team.
So he's a ****** bag NHL 11 player.

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07-03-2011, 11:33 PM
  #775
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FORWARDS
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Jeff Carter ($5.272m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m)
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Jaromir Jagr ($3.300m)
Simon Gagne ($3.500m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Andreas Nodl ($0.845m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Eric Wellwood ($0.580m)
Tom Sestito ($0.550m)

DEFENSEMEN
Matt Carle ($3.437m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Braydon Coburn ($3.200m) / Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Andreas Lilja ($0.737m)
Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)

GOALTENDERS
Tomas Vokoun ($1.500m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,181,655; BONUSES: $1,700,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $118,345



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