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Old
07-04-2011, 12:14 AM
  #776
mypunkrock
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Important things to remember regarding Vokoun:

- 35+ contract
- He only got paid so low because of how quickly the goalie market dried up.

Let's say we don't sign Bryz when we do, and instead wait it out. Suddenly, we have only two goalies, both who want to get paid. One is about to turn 35 (meaning we then have someone else who were are on the hook for for the foreseeable future, in addition to Pronger, Lilja, and Lappy (any others?)), or a guy a few years younger.

My guess, and it is only a guess, is that we picked the lesser of two evils, and paid more for it. Vokoun is a good goalie, no doubt, but the 35+ contract and the uncertainty of what would happen would have driven his price up, instead of him getting low balled.

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07-04-2011, 12:23 AM
  #777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mypunkrock View Post
Important things to remember regarding Vokoun:

- 35+ contract
- He only got paid so low because of how quickly the goalie market dried up.

Let's say we don't sign Bryz when we do, and instead wait it out. Suddenly, we have only two goalies, both who want to get paid. One is about to turn 35 (meaning we then have someone else who were are on the hook for for the foreseeable future, in addition to Pronger, Lilja, and Lappy (any others?)), or a guy a few years younger.

My guess, and it is only a guess, is that we picked the lesser of two evils, and paid more for it. Vokoun is a good goalie, no doubt, but the 35+ contract and the uncertainty of what would happen would have driven his price up, instead of him getting low balled.
Vokoun wasn't considered a 35+ contract though. The NHL season is considered to start on July 1st. On July 1st, Vokoun was 34.

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07-04-2011, 02:59 AM
  #778
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Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
FORWARDS
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Jeff Carter ($5.272m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m)
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Jaromir Jagr ($3.300m)
Simon Gagne ($3.500m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Andreas Nodl ($0.845m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Eric Wellwood ($0.580m)
Tom Sestito ($0.550m)

DEFENSEMEN
Matt Carle ($3.437m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Braydon Coburn ($3.200m) / Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Andreas Lilja ($0.737m)
Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)

GOALTENDERS
Tomas Vokoun ($1.500m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,181,655; BONUSES: $1,700,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $118,345


Makes you wonder, doesn't it? Even with locker room/office issues, that team is a Stanley cup favorite.

Only issue is we won't have 4 rookies to route for! (Schenn, Couturier, Read, Gustafsson)

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07-04-2011, 08:41 AM
  #779
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Problem is Vokoun wouldn't have signed for $1.5M with two teams in need of a goalie. Woulda shoulda coulda:

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Jeff Carter ($5.272m) / Jaromir Jagr ($3.300m)
Andreas Nodl ($0.845m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Eric Wellwood ($0.580m)
Maxime Talbot ($1.800m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Jody Shelley ($1.100m)
Tom Sestito ($0.550m)

DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Braydon Coburn ($3.200m)
Chris Pronger ($4.921m) / Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.737m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,110,822; BONUSES: $1,700,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $189,178

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07-04-2011, 08:54 AM
  #780
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The lines right now will look like this

JVR Giroux Voracek
Jagr Briere Hartnell
Talbot Schenn Simmonds
Nodl Betts Shelly/Sestito


Pronger Carle
Timmonen Coburn
Meszaros Lilja

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07-04-2011, 09:40 AM
  #781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donnieb View Post
The lines right now will look like this

JVR Giroux Voracek
Jagr Briere Hartnell
Talbot Schenn Simmonds
Nodl Betts Shelly/Sestito


Pronger Carle
Timmonen Coburn
Meszaros Lilja
I see so many people doing this.

Why do some put Jagr on the Left Wing? He's a Right Wing. A lot of Europeans play on the opposite wing of their handedness.

Also I think most will be surprised to see that Jagr will play good enough to play on the first line, not the second.

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07-04-2011, 09:42 AM
  #782
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Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
I see so many people doing this.

Why do some put Jagr on the Left Wing? He's a Right Wing. A lot of Europeans play on the opposite wing of their handedness.

Also I think most will be surprised to see that Jagr will play good enough to play on the first line, not the second.
The number of the line can be pretty fruitless when you're talking about the first three.

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07-04-2011, 09:50 AM
  #783
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Originally Posted by nevermore View Post
Problem is Vokoun wouldn't have signed for $1.5M with two teams in need of a goalie. Woulda shoulda coulda:

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Jeff Carter ($5.272m) / Jaromir Jagr ($3.300m)
Andreas Nodl ($0.845m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Eric Wellwood ($0.580m)
Maxime Talbot ($1.800m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Jody Shelley ($1.100m)
Tom Sestito ($0.550m)

DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Braydon Coburn ($3.200m)
Chris Pronger ($4.921m) / Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.737m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,110,822; BONUSES: $1,700,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $189,178
Exactly why there HAS TO HAVE BEEN a bigger problem than what we are hearing. If us folks at Hfboards were able to figure out how to sign Brzy at 5.6 and keep Carter/Richards, surely the Flyers brass knew that too. Right? Right? Right? I sure the **** hope so.

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07-04-2011, 09:55 AM
  #784
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
Exactly why there HAS TO HAVE BEEN a bigger problem than what we are hearing. If us folks at Hfboards were able to figure out how to sign Brzy at 5.6 and keep Carter/Richards, surely the Flyers brass knew that too. Right? Right? Right? I sure the **** hope so.
I think there was some issue, but was blown way out of proportion like anyone other than Chris Pronger claims.....Likely trading one of them would have woken up the other and I think Snider wanted to place blame somewhere and wasnt going to blame Homer or Lavi

But if you are asking if I have faith that this organization knows what it is doing....the clear answer there is absolutely not.

Funny how Boston didnt blow up its team last year....or Washington isnt blowing up its team this year. Why are we the only one that does this?

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07-04-2011, 10:15 AM
  #785
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Richards & Carter were being dealt regardless.

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07-04-2011, 10:42 AM
  #786
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
The number of the line can be pretty fruitless when you're talking about the first three.
Maybe the first 2 not the 3rd line.

Anyhow I think Jagr will be paired with Giroux.

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07-04-2011, 11:02 AM
  #787
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Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
Maybe the first 2 not the 3rd line.

Anyhow I think Jagr will be paired with Giroux.
Briere, Hartnell, and Jagr will form an elite cycling line as long as Hartnell can stay on his feet...

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07-04-2011, 12:57 PM
  #788
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god this is pipe dream but supposing the we give schenn, bob, carle, and a 1st for stammer.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Jaromir Jagr ($3.300m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Steven Stamkos ($8.250m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m)
Jakub Voracek ($2.250m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.800m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.200m)
Andreas Nodl ($0.845m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Jody Shelley ($1.100m)
Tom Sestito ($0.550m) / Eric Wellwood ($0.580m)

DEFENSEMEN
Braydon Coburn ($3.200m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m)
Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m) / Andreas Lilja ($0.737m)
Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Johan Backlund ($0.800m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,838,095; BONUSES: $850,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $461,905

I no it wont happen but a man can dream right... and i have 400K in space with a full squad. god why couldnt it just be that easy

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07-04-2011, 01:02 PM
  #789
mikedifr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
god this is pipe dream but supposing the we give schenn, bob, carle, and a 1st for stammer.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Jaromir Jagr ($3.300m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Steven Stamkos ($8.250m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m)
Jakub Voracek ($2.250m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.800m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.200m)
Andreas Nodl ($0.845m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Jody Shelley ($1.100m)
Tom Sestito ($0.550m) / Eric Wellwood ($0.580m)

DEFENSEMEN
Braydon Coburn ($3.200m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m)
Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m) / Andreas Lilja ($0.737m)
Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Johan Backlund ($0.800m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,838,095; BONUSES: $850,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $461,905

I no it wont happen but a man can dream right... and i have 400K in space with a full squad. god why couldnt it just be that easy
I would seriously consider Schenn, Bob, Carle and a 1st, since losing Carle and Bob really doesnt matter....still not sure I would do it though.

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Old
07-04-2011, 01:11 PM
  #790
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
I would seriously consider Schenn, Bob, Carle and a 1st, since losing Carle and Bob really doesnt matter....still not sure I would do it though.
i think if tampa presents that deal you take it in a heartbeat. maybe we wouldnt have the defense this year to win it but with the cap steadily rising next year we could go out and get another quality dman. And with the young core that wont be getting huge contracts next year(maybe JVR but doubt he gets over 4 a year if he still has a great season) This would also allow Gust a year to develop probably with Pronger

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07-04-2011, 03:25 PM
  #791
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Originally Posted by mypunkrock View Post
Important things to remember regarding Vokoun:

- 35+ contract
- He only got paid so low because of how quickly the goalie market dried up.

Let's say we don't sign Bryz when we do, and instead wait it out. Suddenly, we have only two goalies, both who want to get paid. One is about to turn 35 (meaning we then have someone else who were are on the hook for for the foreseeable future, in addition to Pronger, Lilja, and Lappy (any others?)), or a guy a few years younger.

My guess, and it is only a guess, is that we picked the lesser of two evils, and paid more for it. Vokoun is a good goalie, no doubt, but the 35+ contract and the uncertainty of what would happen would have driven his price up, instead of him getting low balled.
The Vokoun contract isn't a 35+ contract. It's a one year deal. And Vokoun turned 35 after June 30th.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost of Downie View Post
Vokoun wasn't considered a 35+ contract though. The NHL season is considered to start on July 1st. On July 1st, Vokoun was 34.
It's based on the players DOB in the year the contract is signed. June 30th is the date. Before then, it's a 35+, after then, it's not. And it only applies to multi year deals


Last edited by VanSciver: 07-04-2011 at 03:33 PM.
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Old
07-04-2011, 06:41 PM
  #792
mikedifr
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i think if tampa presents that deal you take it in a heartbeat. maybe we wouldnt have the defense this year to win it but with the cap steadily rising next year we could go out and get another quality dman. And with the young core that wont be getting huge contracts next year(maybe JVR but doubt he gets over 4 a year if he still has a great season) This would also allow Gust a year to develop probably with Pronger
We would have no one to play 3rd line center if we made this deal....and I still dont want to tie up $8 million in one player whether that be trade or offersheet.

Not saying 100% no, but not 100% yes either...

Either way, I dont think TB does anything with us not involving Giroux or JVR

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Old
07-08-2011, 11:41 PM
  #793
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The UFA's are pretty much gone and the RFA's remain a pipedream, but with the reports coming from our prospect camps, I'm really starting to be ok with the team we have now...

Hartnell-Briere-Jagr
JvR-Giroux-Voracek
Nodl-Schenn-Simmonds
Talbot-Holmstrom-Sestito
(Shelley, Betts, Wellwood, Rinaldo, Read, Akeson)

Timonen-Coburn
Gustafsson/Bartulis-Pronger
Carle-Meszaros

Bryzgalov
Bobrovsky

3 playmaking machines at center surrounded by 9 hell-bent wingers with size and/or destructive intentions...and plenty of skill. Our 4th line can be absolutely filthy, and we have prospects knocking at the door who can fill 3rd/4th line roles if needed.

Cross your fingers that the lines click so Lavy isn't juggling all season...if so, we can make a deep run.

edit: forgot Carle


Last edited by sobrien: 07-08-2011 at 11:48 PM.
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Old
07-10-2011, 10:42 AM
  #794
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If Couturier is ready I think you have to move Briere to wing. I don't feel comfortable matching up Giroux/Briere/Schenn with Crosby/Malkin/Staal.

I'd be curious to see how these lines would play out

JVR-Giroux-Jagr
Hartnell-Schenn-Briere
Voracek-Couturier-Simmonds
Talbot-Betts-Sestito

Timonen-Coburn
Carle-Pronger
Gustafsson-Meszaros

Bryzgalov
Bobrovsky

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Old
07-10-2011, 10:59 AM
  #795
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Originally Posted by Girouxxxxx28 View Post
If Couturier is ready I think you have to move Briere to wing. I don't feel comfortable matching up Giroux/Briere/Schenn with Crosby/Malkin/Staal.
It's a cluster**** no matter how you look at it. Schenn and Couturier against Crosby and Malkin? Oh goody.

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07-10-2011, 11:33 AM
  #796
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I personally see this for the forwards.


JVR - Briere - Hartnell
Jagr - Giroux - Voracek
Talbot - Schenn - Simmonds
Nodl - Betts - Shelley/Sestito

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07-10-2011, 03:13 PM
  #797
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worst comes to worst Couturier would at least have the size to matchup with the Malkins and Staals

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07-10-2011, 03:53 PM
  #798
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if there aren't more moves and they still have cap space I see Walker stsrting the season as a #6 dman. i think homer gives him a shot to atleast show other teams he is healthy. Especially if they decide to move/waive Shelley. Unless Gus just blows up in the pre-season.

carle - pronger
mez - kimo
coburn - walker

hartnell - briere - jagr (the"you need to score 2 goals for each one you give up" line)
Jvr - giroux - vorcek (the "really no pressure just because we gave up carter & richards" line)
nodl - talbot - simmonds (the "gang that can't shoot straight" line)
sestito - schenn - holstrom * (the crash line)
betts

* i wouldn't mind schenn cutting his teeth on a high energy crash line. no pressure, just go out and throw his body around. i remember forsberg saying how starting on a
4th line with Simon and Deadmarsh (?) helped him play and not feel the pressure when he first got into the league. after a few months see if he can move up.

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07-10-2011, 03:58 PM
  #799
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Originally Posted by Girouxxxxx28 View Post
worst comes to worst Couturier would at least have the size to matchup with the Malkins and Staals
The center matchup is overated imo. That is why we brought in a solid d corps and pay them big money to shutdown teams top lines, and now pay an elite goalie to stop them when they do penetrate. Look at a team like montreal, who has no size at all up front let alone at the center position, and they shutdown caps, and pens last year and took the stanley cup champs to 7 games this year. We are arguably better at every position compared to them, there is no reason we cannot beat anyone with a system, and good coaching.

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07-10-2011, 04:19 PM
  #800
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Originally Posted by OrangeCrush28 View Post
The center matchup is overated imo. That is why we brought in a solid d corps and pay them big money to shutdown teams top lines, and now pay an elite goalie to stop them when they do penetrate. Look at a team like montreal, who has no size at all up front let alone at the center position, and they shutdown caps, and pens last year and took the stanley cup champs to 7 games this year. We are arguably better at every position compared to them, there is no reason we cannot beat anyone with a system, and good coaching.
This post needs to be stickied.

This "center match up" is getting so blown out of proportion.

As long as we have good coaching, it wont be an issue. This team has the tools to shut down Pittsburgh and Washington and Boston. It's just about execution.

It's always been about execution.

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