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Old
07-04-2011, 09:42 AM
  #101
Andy
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I don't think we need a goon...but a guy that's not afraid of anybody and can still paly a regular shift...Boulton, Winchester etc
I agree, that is why I said I don't mind guys like White and Moen. Winchester is a good player, boulton is a plug.

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07-04-2011, 09:42 AM
  #102
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Let's look in our own backyard here and sign Jimmy Bonneau. He would be cheap and in our system for the past 5 years or so. At 6'3 215+lbs, Im sure he can do it.
I don't see that working, the only guys JM will paly is a guy that can fight and still play hockey.

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I agree, that is why I said I don't mind guys like White and Moen. Winchester is a good player, boulton is a plug.
I think if you have a legit heavyweight, guys like Moen White Subban Yemelin Cole can play their game and not have to constantly look over their shoulder taht somebody will jump them.

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07-04-2011, 09:44 AM
  #103
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I don't see that working, the only guys JM will paly is a guy that can fight and still play hockey.
Maybe he's good enough to take a reg shift

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Old
07-04-2011, 09:51 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
I said goons were useless, not fighting or toughness. I also followed that up by saying guys like Moen and White are not. We need more of the latter mold, less of the former.

Guys like Thornton fight other goons and other pluggers. That's useless. We witnessed this with Laraque. These guys only fight other goons.

Guys like White/Souray/Moen drop the gloves when they feel they're players have been cheapshoted and we've witnessed them stand up for their teammates when it does happen.
How can it be useless? Didn't you watch the finals against Vancouver. They were ******** their pants when he was on the ice. He's no Laraque, he's not only on the ice to fight. He can play hockey, can skate, can hit, can chip a few goals here and there, can be like all these little agitators that talk a lot. When he's on the ice, the other team skate with their chin up and keep dumping the puck on the other end.

As for Savard and Bergeron, cheap shots are all over the league. Not only against Boston. This is a totally different problem that needs to be solved and has nothing to do with having goons on your team.

The difference between Montreal and Boston is when Pacioretty got hit by Chara, we stopped playing, we were scared and Boston continued to intimidate us. It was so frustrating. When Horton got hit by Rome, Boston played tougher and came back from 0-2 to win the series in 7. And if I'm not mistaken, Thornton didn't play the first two games.

I don't want a slow goon too slow to hit and who's only good for staged fights. I want an ennoying gritty son of a ***** type of goon. The one you will have in your face all night. But also the one who can keep the puck in the offensive zone and won't make too many mistakes defensively.

In fact, we would need two more of this type (bolded part).

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07-04-2011, 09:54 AM
  #105
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Maybe he's good enough to take a reg shift
Winchester...10 G 171 hits

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07-04-2011, 09:59 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Winchester...10 G 171 hits
It can also be via trade. There's teams out there with 3 or 4 guys like that.

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07-04-2011, 10:05 AM
  #107
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We need to get Crawford from LA,this guy is a decent player,20 years of age 6`2.Had 7 goals 7 assists in 76 games 141 penalty minutes.He can skate,hit,and is an excellent scrapper...Check out youtube watch him fight,Kyle Crawford

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07-04-2011, 10:13 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Lions999 View Post
We need to get Crawford from LA,this guy is a decent player,20 years of age 6`2.Had 7 goals 7 assists in 76 games 141 penalty minutes.He can skate,hit,and is an excellent scrapper...Check out youtube watch him fight,Kyle Crawford
You mean Kyle Clifford.

LA will keep him, no doubt.


It is very hard to find players like Thornton (BOS) and Neil (OTT), guys who can play, intimidate, fight, and be reliable defensively.

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07-04-2011, 10:15 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by OpenIceHit View Post
It can also be via trade. There's teams out there with 3 or 4 guys like that.
No point in wasting assets when there are good UFA's taht acn do the job...Winchester Boulton O'brien Voros Godard Stortini Konopka Janssen Koci. I think guys like Godard Janssen Koci might be a tough fit as JM won't dress guys where he can't play 4 lines. Stortini could be an option for Hamilton.

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07-04-2011, 10:18 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
No point in wasting assets when there are good UFA's taht acn do the job...Winchester Boulton O'brien Voros Godard Stortini Konopka Janssen Koci. I think guys like Godard Janssen Koci might be a tough fit as JM won't dress guys where he can't play 4 lines. Stortini could be an option for Hamilton.
Boulton can play 8-10 min a game on the 4th, no problem. Winchester too.

Brandon Segal is an interesting player, too.

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07-04-2011, 10:21 AM
  #111
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I wonder if any of these UFA tough guys get their agents to contact Gauthier wanting the job. There are alot of available players that could do the job as protector.

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07-04-2011, 10:23 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
No point in wasting assets when there are good UFA's taht acn do the job...Winchester Boulton O'brien Voros Godard Stortini Konopka Janssen Koci. I think guys like Godard Janssen Koci might be a tough fit as JM won't dress guys where he can't play 4 lines. Stortini could be an option for Hamilton.
It's not waiting assets when you get something you need in return.

Anyway, via trade or UFA, we need one or two players like these.

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07-04-2011, 10:32 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by OpenIceHit View Post
It's not waiting assets when you get something you need in return.

Anyway, via trade or UFA, we need one or two players like these.
We have White and Moen...I think we just need a heavyeright to allow our bigger players and agitators to do their job. Pacioretty AK Cole Eller White Moen, gives us 6 guys with good size taht will play physical. That's more than enough in today's NHL.

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07-04-2011, 10:32 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
You mean Kyle Clifford.

LA will keep him, no doubt.


It is very hard to find players like Thornton (BOS) and Neil (OTT), guys who can play, intimidate, fight, and be reliable defensively.
Yep sorry Clifford

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07-04-2011, 11:06 AM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
We have White and Moen...I think we just need a heavyeright to allow our bigger players and agitators to do their job. Pacioretty AK Cole Eller White Moen, gives us 6 guys with good size taht will play physical. That's more than enough in today's NHL.
Have you checked our d-men corps ?

Nothing to scare the opponents.

Trading O'Byrne and letting Hamrlik go were big mistakes.

Let's offer a deal to O'Brien.


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07-04-2011, 11:12 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by OpenIceHit View Post
How can it be useless? Didn't you watch the finals against Vancouver. They were ******** their pants when he was on the ice. He's no Laraque, he's not only on the ice to fight. He can play hockey, can skate, can hit, can chip a few goals here and there, can be like all these little agitators that talk a lot. When he's on the ice, the other team skate with their chin up and keep dumping the puck on the other end.

As for Savard and Bergeron, cheap shots are all over the league. Not only against Boston. This is a totally different problem that needs to be solved and has nothing to do with having goons on your team.

The difference between Montreal and Boston is when Pacioretty got hit by Chara, we stopped playing, we were scared and Boston continued to intimidate us. It was so frustrating. When Horton got hit by Rome, Boston played tougher and came back from 0-2 to win the series in 7. And if I'm not mistaken, Thornton didn't play the first two games.

I don't want a slow goon too slow to hit and who's only good for staged fights. I want an ennoying gritty son of a ***** type of goon. The one you will have in your face all night. But also the one who can keep the puck in the offensive zone and won't make too many mistakes defensively.



In fact, we would need two more of this type (bolded part).
Ya, we were so scared to play Boston that we were 1 Goal away from eliminating them. You're right, they completely ran through us...

I swear, the crap I read here sometimes...

You want a goon, that's fine. You think they serve a purpose, that's fine as well. But don't make ridiculous claims such as the one you just made.

Back in the days, having a goon was for the sole purpose of protection. If someone hit Joe Sakic, no matter who it was, Chris Simon would pound the living hell out of the guy. Didn't matter who it was. He wouldn't get an instigator penalty or fine or anything. The goons served a great purpose and having the best fighter actually mattered. Since the new rules, their value has dropped tremendously. Teams prone discipline, so you rarely see those goons jump on anybody anymore. You have a few reckless ones, but that's about it.

And don't even dare trying to hint that Thornton's presence on the Bruins roster made a difference in the finals. The guy was utterly useless. But I'm not surprised pro-goons would try to use it as an argument.

I wouldn't mind adding one, I won't cry at night if we don't. If the players actually want one, then get one. I don't think we need two. We can look within our own ranks as well.

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07-04-2011, 11:17 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Ya, we were so scared to play Boston that we were 1 Goal away from eliminating them. You're right, they completely ran through us...

I swear, the crap I read here sometimes...

You want a goon, that's fine. You think they serve a purpose, that's fine as well. But don't make ridiculous claims such as the one you just made.

Back in the days, having a goon was for the sole purpose of protection. If someone hit Joe Sakic, no matter who it was, Chris Simon would pound the living hell out of the guy. Didn't matter who it was. He wouldn't get an instigator penalty or fine or anything. The goons served a great purpose and having the best fighter actually mattered. Since the new rules, their value has dropped tremendously. Teams prone discipline, so you rarely see those goons jump on anybody anymore. You have a few reckless ones, but that's about it.

And don't even dare trying to hint that Thornton's presence on the Bruins roster made a difference in the finals. The guy was utterly useless. But I'm not surprised pro-goons would try to use it as an argument.

I wouldn't mind adding one, I won't cry at night if we don't. If the players actually want one, then get one. I don't think we need two. We can look within our own ranks as well.

You seem to have a hard time making the difference between a "goon" and a "protector".

No one wants to have a gorilla that will play 2-4 min a game.

We want a player that can play well on a 4th line (or a botton D-pairing) and providing a physical presence when his teamates are intimidated by the opponents.


Don't tell me you would not like a Shawn Thornton or a Chris Neil on our team.

If you like this team so much, you have to care about the physical integrity of its players, and moral toughness.

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07-04-2011, 12:07 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Ya, we were so scared to play Boston that we were 1 Goal away from eliminating them. You're right, they completely ran through us...
I swear, the crap I read here sometimes...

You want a goon, that's fine. You think they serve a purpose, that's fine as well. But don't make ridiculous claims such as the one you just made.

Back in the days, having a goon was for the sole purpose of protection. If someone hit Joe Sakic, no matter who it was, Chris Simon would pound the living hell out of the guy. Didn't matter who it was. He wouldn't get an instigator penalty or fine or anything. The goons served a great purpose and having the best fighter actually mattered. Since the new rules, their value has dropped tremendously. Teams prone discipline, so you rarely see those goons jump on anybody anymore. You have a few reckless ones, but that's about it.

And don't even dare trying to hint that Thornton's presence on the Bruins roster made a difference in the finals. The guy was utterly useless. But I'm not surprised pro-goons would try to use it as an argument.

I wouldn't mind adding one, I won't cry at night if we don't. If the players actually want one, then get one. I don't think we need two. We can look within our own ranks as well.
blablabla we were one goal from winning it all blablabla the Bruins don't deserve the cup but we do blablabla ....

Hey wake up! We LOST 4 games out of the last 5. You can base the entire season on this last goal if it makes you feel better, it's up to you. I don't! I know what I saw during the ENTIRE season. We were fast and agile but that's not enough. We were only 5 points from not making the playoffs. If you like watching our players getting humiliated, good for you.

As for Thornton, you can see it as you please. I noticed the Bruins played differently when he was in the lineup after game two.

Finaly, please don't pretend to detain the ultimate truth. Everyone has their own opinion/vision. It's not because you have 200,000 posts that you have the right to say my comments and thougts are crap.

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07-04-2011, 12:11 PM
  #119
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blablabla we were one goal from winning it all blablabla the Bruins don't deserve the cup but we do blablabla ....
Great argument.

Quote:
Hey wake up! We LOST 4 games out of the last 5. You can base the entire season on this last goal if it makes you feel better, it's up to you.
Sure we lost the series, but it's not like they got totally dominated. In fact you could argue that the Canadiens were the better team in the series despite losing.

Quote:
I don't! I know what I saw during the ENTIRE season. We were fast and agile but that's not enough. We were only 5 points from not making the playoffs. If you like watching our players getting humiliated, good for you.
Weren't we also 5 points away from third place? Talk about onlu looking at the glass half empty. The reality is that the Canadiens were battling for third place the entire season and there was never a time where it didn't look like they wouldn't make the playoffs aside from the dip in decemeber.
As for Thornton, you can see it as you please. I noticed the Bruins played differently when he was in the lineup after game two.

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07-04-2011, 12:15 PM
  #120
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Great argument.

.
I know it's a ****** argument. It was only to show how disrespectful it was to say my comment was crap and that I was making ridiculous claims. Seriously, what the **** is that? Are we on youtube or what?

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07-04-2011, 12:19 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
You seem to have a hard time making the difference between a "goon" and a "protector".

No one wants to have a gorilla that will play 2-4 min a game.

We want a player that can play well on a 4th line (or a botton D-pairing) and providing a physical presence when his teamates are intimidated by the opponents.


Don't tell me you would not like a Shawn Thornton or a Chris Neil on our team.


If you like this team so much, you have to care about the physical integrity of its players, and moral toughness.
Yes, and we have that with Ryan White. Maybe you'd like him to be a better fighter, but he fits the mold perfectly. I have no problem adding another player like him either, but Konopka isn't one of them. I said I would have been happy with Rupp here but he's not available anymore. There isn't a bunch of them out there.

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07-04-2011, 12:25 PM
  #122
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Yes, and we have that with Ryan White. Maybe you'd like him to be a better fighter, but he fits the mold perfectly. I have no problem adding another player like him either, but Konopka isn't one of them. I said I would have been happy with Rupp here but he's not available anymore. There isn't a bunch of them out there.
He is nowhere near a Thornton or a Neil yet...If he ever get that "good" and effective. He's a good, willing, fearless little scrapper. But we need a bigger body too. Will Conboy and/or Schultz will ever be NHL ready ? I don't see immediate solutions with the club or farm club right now. That is why PG must address the situation for the coming season.

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07-04-2011, 12:36 PM
  #123
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You seem to have a hard time making the difference between a "goon" and a "protector".

No one wants to have a gorilla that will play 2-4 min a game.
Sure they do. I've seen several people mention Steve McIntyre. Eric Goddard has been mentioned. Konopka is only kept short of goon status by his ability to win a face off then get off the ice.

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07-04-2011, 12:44 PM
  #124
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blablabla we were one goal from winning it all blablabla the Bruins don't deserve the cup but we do blablabla ....
Actually, I don't believe that at all. PO hockey has a lot to do with match ups. We usually always play well against Boston and due to our history, I feel we have a psychological edge over them. But that doesn't mean we would have gone anywhere had we beaten them.
My point was to show that when a PO series is so tight, it's tough to argue that intimidation was a factor. It was very even, and like Koseegin just said, you can even argue Habs were better. But you clearly missed the point.


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Originally Posted by OpenIceHit View Post
Hey wake up! We LOST 4 games out of the last 5. You can base the entire season on this last goal if it makes you feel better, it's up to you. I don't! I know what I saw during the ENTIRE season. We were fast and agile but that's not enough. We were only 5 points from not making the playoffs. If you like watching our players getting humiliated, good for you.
I don't like to see Spacek or Hammer get beaten down. I also don't like to see Pyatt get pounded by an elbow pad. But I'll put more importance on talent. I'm all for keeping White here, and wouldn't mind the addition of another player of the same mold.

Ya, we were 5pts from missing the POs, but we never once dropped below 8th all season and that's without a top 6, with key injuries to our 2 best Dmen going into the season, and with 3 of our top 5 (Gionta-Cammy-Gomez) having career low points since breaking out. So, considering all of this, I'd say I'm very pleased with the fact we finished 5pts ahead of 9th, and actually impressed we did so well versus Boston in the POs.
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As for Thornton, you can see it as you please. I noticed the Bruins played differently when he was in the lineup after game two.
I noticed a difference in the Bruins right after Horton got destroyed. From what we were told, Chara apparently had his Captain moment in the locker room during the intermission and that changed it all.

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Originally Posted by OpenIceHit View Post
Finaly, please don't pretend to detain the ultimate truth. Everyone has their own opinion/vision. It's not because you have 200,000 posts that you have the right to say my comments and thougts are crap.
I don't pretend to detain the ultimate truth, and if you weren't so sensitive, you'd have noticed that I actually agreed to some degree that we need one extra player like White. Where I disagree is that the Habs were intimidated when they clearly were not.

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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
He is nowhere near a Thornton or a Neil yet...If he ever get that "good" and effective. He's a good, willing, fearless little scrapper. But we need a bigger body too. Will Conboy and/or Schultz will ever be NHL ready ? I don't see immediate solutions with the club or farm club right now. That is why PG must address the situation for the coming season.
Ya, he's not ''as good'' yet. He only played about 40 nhl games. But he is in the same mold. He doesn't hurt his team on the ice, he's good defensively, fast, hits a lot and fights. Same mold.

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07-04-2011, 12:52 PM
  #125
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You see! You don't have to be so arrogant and disrespectful to make your point. I now tend to agree with some of your thougts and I didn't know about the Chara speech. I even learned something from your post. Bravo! Good job son!

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