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Old
07-04-2011, 02:26 AM
  #76
Inferno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
I don't see how it's the exact same scenario.
contract talks between Erixon and Calgary going badly
contract talks between Stamkos and Tampa going badly (presumably)

Sather swoops in and steals Erixon with trade


only difference in the 2 scenarios is that Tampa doesnt have to worry about losing Stamkos to the draft again, but he can sign an offersheet which would mean 1 of 2 things, either Tampa has to pay him way more than they want him to, or they will only get 4 first rounders, likely low end picks in the 20-30 range.

hell, id be willing to give Tampa our next 4 first rounders AND Dubinsky, AND Boyle, AND MDZ to get Stamkos.

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07-04-2011, 02:31 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
contract talks between Erixon and Calgary going badly
contract talks between Stamkos and Tampa going badly (presumably)

Sather swoops in and steals Erixon with trade


only difference in the 2 scenarios is that Tampa doesnt have to worry about losing Stamkos to the draft again, but he can sign an offersheet which would mean 1 of 2 things, either Tampa has to pay him way more than they want him to, or they will only get 4 first rounders, likely low end picks in the 20-30 range.

hell, id be willing to give Tampa our next 4 first rounders AND Dubinsky, AND Boyle, AND MDZ to get Stamkos.
That's one heck of a package. He might actually be worth it. I know I'd do the 4 first rounders.

Out of curiosity...what happens if they can't work out a deal? Is Stamkos not arbitration eligible?

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07-04-2011, 02:34 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
contract talks between Erixon and Calgary going badly
contract talks between Stamkos and Tampa going badly (presumably)

Sather swoops in and steals Erixon with trade


only difference in the 2 scenarios is that Tampa doesnt have to worry about losing Stamkos to the draft again, but he can sign an offersheet which would mean 1 of 2 things, either Tampa has to pay him way more than they want him to, or they will only get 4 first rounders, likely low end picks in the 20-30 range.

hell, id be willing to give Tampa our next 4 first rounders AND Dubinsky, AND Boyle, AND MDZ to get Stamkos.
Slow down ... must be the alcohol in you talking the offer is 4 first rounders +Boyle. and MDZ.

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07-04-2011, 02:36 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
That's one heck of a package. He might actually be worth it. I know I'd do the 4 first rounders.

Out of curiosity...what happens if they can't work out a deal? Is Stamkos not arbitration eligible?
i dont think he is, i think if they dont work out a deal, he doesnt play. period. he stays in limbo till they get something done.

its a huge package, but id do it without a seconds hesitation. Stamkos is a 50 goal scorer and hes still about 5 years away from hitting his prime.

you could move him to LW and form a ridiculous top line of Stamkos - Richards - Gaborik. That line could score over 120 goals by themselves.

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07-04-2011, 04:41 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
i dont think he is, i think if they dont work out a deal, he doesnt play. period. he stays in limbo till they get something done.

its a huge package, but id do it without a seconds hesitation. Stamkos is a 50 goal scorer and hes still about 5 years away from hitting his prime.

you could move him to LW and form a ridiculous top line of Stamkos - Richards - Gaborik. That line could score over 120 goals by themselves.
I need to change my pants brb

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07-04-2011, 05:04 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
you could move him to LW and form a ridiculous top line of Stamkos - Richards - Gaborik. That line could score over 120 goals by themselves.
Probably wont happen, but this line is making me..

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07-04-2011, 06:16 AM
  #82
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It would be great to get him, just don't see it happening. He is not arbitration eligable because he does not have 4 NHL seasons under his belt.

Plus where is this cap space coming to sign him? Waiving Wolski? God imagine a lineup of:

Stamkos - Richards - Gaborik
Dubinsky - Anisimov - Callahan
Feds - Stepan - MZA/Avery
Rupp - Boyle - Prust

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07-04-2011, 07:08 AM
  #83
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I'd disco dance down Hempstead Turnpike naked if we ever got Stamkos.....but its not gonna happen.

Offer Sheets are just not looked upon fondly, and I'd rather avoid the possible backlash towards this organization with one.

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07-04-2011, 07:54 AM
  #84
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If I was T.Bay, I'd want

2012 First Round Pick
2013 First Round Pick
Artem Anisimov
Brandon Dubinsky
Ryan McDonagh
Brian Boyle or Mats Zuccarello.

I'd also want NYR to take a bad contract in return (let them pay him off in the minors or worry about it)

This is really the only thing that T.Bay would want that we would strongly consider, you might be ok with swapping Callahan and Dubinsky around but essentially I'd imagine nobody would give up Lundqvist or Staal. I wouldn't move Hank & I'd have to say no on Staal because Staal by himself still doesn't get us near Stamkos.

Avery - Stamkos - Callahan
Hagelin - Richards - Gaborik
Fedotenko - Stepan - Prust
Ruup - Christensen - Weise


DEFENSEMEN
Marc Staal / Daniel Girardi
Tim Erixon / Mike Sauer
Pashin / Michael Del Zotto

Hanks / Biron


Last edited by GarretJoseph*: 07-04-2011 at 08:02 AM.
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Old
07-04-2011, 09:33 AM
  #85
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I think people are giving up too much. Stamkos' return is capped at 4 first rounders. If the Rangers sign to an offer sheet, they will give up 4 mid first rounders. IMO, that is the cap.
So in order to make it worthwhile for them you don't need to give much more than that. Offering Dubi + Boyle + MDZ and 4 firsts is complete overpayment based on that.
IMO you offer a few players who are worth first rounders. Dubi for sure lands a 1st and a 2nd...and MDZ likely lands a first.

So I offer this:
Wolski
Dubinsky
MDZ
Kreider
1st
2nd

You clear up cap space with Wolski and Dubinsky. You lose a mid-first, and a 2nd. MDZ is now replaced with Erixon. Kreider is risky. I think you win that deal, and the value is there.

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Old
07-04-2011, 09:42 AM
  #86
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You have to assume you're bidding against other teams though. Taking that into account, there's absolutely no cap to his value.

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Old
07-04-2011, 10:35 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJBergy86 View Post
you can not restructure contracts once they are signed. This is a pipedream
Someone, ruling please.
I wholly agree that the club can not/should not violate an existing contract and unilaterally rip it up and dictate alternate terms.

But surely you can obtain the de facto equivalent if a player is on board by renegotiating and obtaining player consent to a new deal. The deal would have to not shortchange the player, but if another year or two is tacked on for added $$ justifying the reduction up front, who is to say that is not a good deal for that player?

As to pipedream, you mean to tell me that the end result of renegotiation, a new deal, cannot be actualized until the current one runs out, and both the player and the club are forced to wait that whole time, without being able to establish and execute a new deal until after the last minute?

I could be wrong, but I don't think so....

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Old
07-04-2011, 10:43 AM
  #88
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You can't renegotiate contracts, it's part of the cba.

Tampa will match any offer sheet. If they cant afford it they will still match then trade him next year. They're not giving up stamkos for 4 1sts. I don't think people understand this fact. Unless he's offered a ridiculous contract noone will touch (like 20 years 12 mil each) it will be matched

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07-04-2011, 11:04 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Someone, ruling please.
I wholly agree that the club can not/should not violate an existing contract and unilaterally rip it up and dictate alternate terms.

But surely you can obtain the de facto equivalent if a player is on board by renegotiating and obtaining player consent to a new deal. The deal would have to not shortchange the player, but if another year or two is tacked on for added $$ justifying the reduction up front, who is to say that is not a good deal for that player?

As to pipedream, you mean to tell me that the end result of renegotiation, a new deal, cannot be actualized until the current one runs out, and both the player and the club are forced to wait that whole time, without being able to establish and execute a new deal until after the last minute?

I could be wrong, but I don't think so....
You are. An in force contract cannot be adjusted...other than to be bought out.

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07-04-2011, 11:10 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by f2d View Post

Tampa will match any offer sheet. If they cant afford it they will still match then trade him next year. They're not giving up stamkos for 4 1sts. I don't think people understand this fact. Unless he's offered a ridiculous contract noone will touch (like 20 years 12 mil each) it will be matched
I agree that they will attempt to match any deal. But, if reports are true and they are not looking to spend more than 7.5M per year (for a 5 year deal) they could have a problem if someone offers up 10M+. I understand that you are not getting a Stamkos back if you take the 4 first round picks...but you will get a couple quality starters who cost a lot less, at least initially. I don't profess to know the financial restraints on the TB organization...but it seems to me that 4 days into the UFA signing period you'd want to have the league's top RFA signed, not vulnerable to being poached.

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07-04-2011, 11:31 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
You are. An in force contract cannot be adjusted...other than to be bought out.
This

As per the CBA, contract cannot by any means be renegotiated. Even if say Gaborik agreed to restructure the contract, the CBA doesn't allow it. Its as simple as that.

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07-04-2011, 11:34 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Someone, ruling please.
I wholly agree that the club can not/should not violate an existing contract and unilaterally rip it up and dictate alternate terms.

But surely you can obtain the de facto equivalent if a player is on board by renegotiating and obtaining player consent to a new deal. The deal would have to not shortchange the player, but if another year or two is tacked on for added $$ justifying the reduction up front, who is to say that is not a good deal for that player?

As to pipedream, you mean to tell me that the end result of renegotiation, a new deal, cannot be actualized until the current one runs out, and both the player and the club are forced to wait that whole time, without being able to establish and execute a new deal until after the last minute?

I could be wrong, but I don't think so....
Extensions can be negotiated, however it will simply be a contract that comes into affect only when the current one runs out. This doesn't help with the current situation.

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07-04-2011, 11:34 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by TheZherdev View Post
This

As per the CBA, contract cannot by any means be renegotiated. Even if say Gaborik agreed to restructure the contract, the CBA doesn't allow it. Its as simple as that.
In some ways it actually hurts players. For example...Redden might still be a serviceable 3rd pairing D man. But since he can't say let's redo my contract and I'll take X million instead of the 6.5 I'm getting now...he's relegated to Hartford. Sure, he's earning crazy cash...but you have to assume some guys would take a bit less money to live in style in the big league.

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07-04-2011, 11:37 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
I agree that they will attempt to match any deal. But, if reports are true and they are not looking to spend more than 7.5M per year (for a 5 year deal) they could have a problem if someone offers up 10M+. I understand that you are not getting a Stamkos back if you take the 4 first round picks...but you will get a couple quality starters who cost a lot less, at least initially. I don't profess to know the financial restraints on the TB organization...but it seems to me that 4 days into the UFA signing period you'd want to have the league's top RFA signed, not vulnerable to being poached.
I brought this up earlier but my thread was Closed
12-12-12-12-10-9-8-7-6-5=93M/10yrs 9.3M Cap Hit
I think this is the ballpark for a straight Force Majeur Non Matchable Offer Sheet and you give up the Picks
(they don't match because it is too much $ and they already have big hits to Cap with Lecavalier and St. Louis)
OR
Sign and trade but probably Stamkos gets 8-8.5M for at least 6 yrs
but you have to give up Player(s) you don't want to.

I think the Rangers should step away at this point.

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07-04-2011, 11:46 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by RichardsRngrs View Post
I brought this up earlier but my thread was Closed
12-12-12-12-10-9-8-7-6-5=93M/10yrs 9.3M Cap Hit
I think this is the ballpark for a straight Force Majeur Non Matchable Offer Sheet and you give up the Picks
(they don't match because it is too much $ and they already have big hits to Cap with Lecavalier and St. Louis)
OR
Sign and trade but probably Stamkos gets 8-8.5M for at least 6 yrs
but you have to give up Player(s) you don't want to.

I think the Rangers should step away at this point.
Don't get me wrong...93M over 10 years is hardly a bad deal. But, Stamkos would only be earning 7M, 6M and 5M each season as a 28, 29 and 30 year old. Not exactly a ton of cash for a superstar right in his prime. I wonder if a 19 year deal would be better? lol

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07-04-2011, 01:08 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post

hell, id be willing to give Tampa our next 4 first rounders AND Dubinsky, AND Boyle, AND MDZ to get Stamkos.

Slow your roll there. You want to open up all types of holes and lose 4 firsts on top of it for a player? I know the player is Stamkos. But you know what? Lightning havent won with stamkos. So its not a sure fire you win the cup with him. And they had a pretty decent goalie in the next this year.


Lets stay the course. One we dont have that cap space. Two I am not about to see Dubi and boyle go in one package and lose MDZ our PMD of the future and 4 first rounders!!



We got Gaborik. We got Richards. We got Lundqvist. We got Staal. How much more you want?

We even have Callahan. You know, our new Captain

Chill out.. sit back and watch the show. It tells to be a good one this year

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07-04-2011, 01:12 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by SomebodySaveKreider View Post
I'd disco dance down Hempstead Turnpike naked if we ever got Stamkos.....but its not gonna happen.

Offer Sheets are just not looked upon fondly, and I'd rather avoid the possible backlash towards this organization with one.


I'd disco dance down Northern Boulevard naked if we ever got Stamkos...

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Old
07-05-2011, 04:52 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
I agree that they will attempt to match any deal. But, if reports are true and they are not looking to spend more than 7.5M per year (for a 5 year deal) they could have a problem if someone offers up 10M+. I understand that you are not getting a Stamkos back if you take the 4 first round picks...but you will get a couple quality starters who cost a lot less, at least initially. I don't profess to know the financial restraints on the TB organization...but it seems to me that 4 days into the UFA signing period you'd want to have the league's top RFA signed, not vulnerable to being poached.
If they match they can trade him after a year. So if its a contract they can't afford they'll match then trade him after a season and get a much bigger return then 4 1sts

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07-05-2011, 05:20 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by f2d View Post
If they match they can trade him after a year. So if its a contract they can't afford they'll match then trade him after a season and get a much bigger return then 4 1sts
That would probably be the course of action if he gets offersheeted, unless it is by a perenial bottomfeeder where 4 firsts would be atleast 2-3 top-5 picks

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07-05-2011, 07:31 AM
  #100
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Rangers probably would be more hated than the Yankees if they got Stamkos.

Look at the outcry just cause they got Richards.

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