HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The reason why the Habs wanted Hamrlik back

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-03-2011, 04:35 PM
  #51
MathMan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 17,097
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Le CH View Post
Anyone else notice Mike Greens numbers... for all the hate he gets about his defensive play his stats are pretty good.
Carlson-Alzner has relegated Green to lower-pairing toughs 5-on-5, which really helped him.

MathMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2011, 08:28 PM
  #52
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 22,905
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habitue View Post
No needs for the fancy stats work to know that Hamrlik was an essential piece of the Habs D in the last few years.

With Markov (twice) and Gorges injured for so many games, he was the anchor of the defence corp.
He really, really was. Take a look at the game-by-game timelines from the last two years, and see just exactly how many nights the Hamrlik pairing had the most ice time (highlighted in red):

2009-10 season
2010-11 season

I dunno if I would have offered him a 2 year contract (I think the Habs have worn almost all the thread off his tires at this point), but it's certainly hard to say that he didn't deserve one. He's going to play on a 2nd or 3rd pairing (like he should) next year and I bet he looks great doing it. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if he got slotted in next to Carlson instead of Alzner at some point. I'll be interesting to see what combos Washington rolls with Carlson, Alzner, Hamrlik, Green, Wideman, Schultz, Poti, Erskine.

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2011, 09:58 PM
  #53
swimmer77
Post Oates
 
swimmer77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: in water
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 3,404
vCash: 500
Kudos to the OP.

Hamrlik has never been given enough credit for his offensive contributions or his hockey sense.

I get tired of hearing how terrible he was in the playoffs. I'll be the first to admit he made some bone headed plays and had a couple of bad games. But he took a lot more risks because well - he just had to because of injuries to the team's offensive star.

Many fans totally ignore his stats from the playoffs last year. You don't have those stats by being "terrible". With Markov gone last year and Subban a rookie just who was the offensive production up to then? The same thing happened this year. Subban and Hamrlik had to take risks to help the team score. Gill sure as heck couldn't provide anything and Wiz was playing with one arm.

Rewind to last year's playoffs................

1. Plekanec's goal against Washington in game 2.
2. Cammalleri's goal against Pittsburgh in game 2.
3. Gionta's game winning goal against Pittsburgh in game 4.
4. Cammalleri's goal against Pittsburgh in game 6.
5. Spacek's goal against Pittsburgh in game 6.
6. Dominic Moore's goal against Pittsburgh in game 7.
7. Gionta's goal against Philly in game 3.
8. Cammalleri's goal against Philly in game 3.
9. Gionta's goal against Philly in game 7.

Many of those goals came after a D play by Hamrlik where he used his hockey sense and / or skill. I'd challenge anyone to go watch the replays and say differently. But the only thing you will ever hear from his critics is that he was tired and worn out and sucked in the playoffs. Give me the guy who's tired and worn out but still can make some of those plays.

While Gill had to step up and play against tougher competition his game remained the same - no offense. He continued to lay back and just play D. But his + / - bears out that he's been the worst at even strength since he's been a Hab.

Hamrlik was forced to play the role of a number one D-man for most of the last two year's . With that meant taking more risks. The OP's analysis proves his stats are very admirable considering he was playing the toughest competition while holding the fort with a weaker D partner.

I would have kept Hamr before Gill and given him the 2 year contract without a doubt. Because that didn't happen doesn't mean it was the right thing to do. In the last half of the season the main three providing the offense from the blueline were Subban, Hamrlik and Wiz. IMO Markov replaces Wiz's production and Wiz was no slouch. Subban's will probably increase. IMO it will have to be a joint effort by other players to replace Hamrlik's. But what's a little scary is if one of Subban or Markov go down. I don't that the Habs are ready to handle that and for that reason my choice would have been Hamr instead of Gill.

As it stands Gauthier let two top 4 d-men with good ES contributions walk out the door. Wiz would have been too expensive I guess. He got his contract but what would he have taken to stay in Montreal? We'll never know. Hamrlik from reports was prepared to make less in Montreal than what he will in Washington. He also turned down a three year deal to go to Washington.

And with all of the talk about who is the better mentor (Gill or Hamrlik) ATM all I hear from the Washington side is that speculation points to Hamrlik being brought in to mentor Mike Green. While Gill "mentors" a superstar in the making Hamrlik maybe has the job of turning a wayward offensive minded D-man into a superstar instead of being trade talk fodder.

swimmer77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-04-2011, 02:26 AM
  #54
Poulet Kostopoulos
Registered User
 
Poulet Kostopoulos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,845
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habitue View Post
No needs for the fancy stats work to know that Hamrlik was an essential piece of the Habs D in the last few years.

With Markov (twice) and Gorges injured for so many games, he was the anchor of the defence corp.

I dunno know if I should blame the org to not have offered him a two-year contract, or blame Hamrlik for such a demand.

One thing is sure, we gonna miss him dearly.

I have no confidence that Markov and Gorges are 100% healthy;

I have no confidence that Yemelin and Diaz are NHL ready;

I have strong doubts about Weber capabilities to play a full season;

I have next to no confidence in our geriatric Spacek and Gill to be at least as good (or as bad) as last season.

We have no big, experienced ( a guy between 25-30) presence on the blueline.

I hope Subban won't get hurt or annoyed by the constant attention & abuse (verbal and physical) he's gonna get.
Agreed. This defense worries me A LOT. What the GM did with our defense puzzles me. Is he rebuilding again?! At best, this is a contender-quality D squad in two years. At worst, it will be in four years or more and by then, our forwards will be rebuilding.

I'm afraid it's gonna be a long and tedious season. Hope I'm wrong and all those numerous question marks will turn into good surprises.

Poulet Kostopoulos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-04-2011, 02:32 AM
  #55
Zorba
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: DELTA BC
Posts: 486
vCash: 500
I still believe Gauthier is going to pick up a quality D man via the trade route. Our d is scary and not in a good way. If Markov is injured again , were hooped

Zorba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-04-2011, 02:42 AM
  #56
Pr3Va1L
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 626
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenRetina View Post
So by your estimation. Bouillon and Campbell are the best 2 dmen in the league.
This still doesn't account for turn overs, puck battles etc.

Seeing how this is a statistic for defensive d-men, I am rather shocked to see Mike Green near the top of the list.

Pr3Va1L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-04-2011, 02:47 AM
  #57
LesHabsRock
Registered User
 
LesHabsRock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Windsor, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,953
vCash: 500
Great stats, but what happened to the often forgotten Sopel? Is he also gone?

LesHabsRock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-04-2011, 02:51 AM
  #58
One Man Rock Band
T-Ross!!
 
One Man Rock Band's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Habville
Country: Canada
Posts: 46,149
vCash: 500
I'm going to miss Hammer. Loved that he was a class act after leaving too. Awesome player that we will have a hard time replacing from within.

One Man Rock Band is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-04-2011, 03:21 AM
  #59
Ghetto Sangria
The implication
 
Ghetto Sangria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,072
vCash: 500
they took ours lets take theirs! Hannan get yo ass ova here

Ghetto Sangria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-04-2011, 03:36 PM
  #60
Agnostic
11 Stanley Cups
 
Agnostic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,325
vCash: 500
Oh how interesting, a system of measurement that puts Francis Bouillon at the top and Nik Lidstrom at 78th.

Agnostic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-04-2011, 05:12 PM
  #61
SouthernHab
Not a Fanboy
 
SouthernHab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 11,233
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Like conveniently sneaking around the reality that you think your assumptions are facts, constantly.

Stats like this don't lie. Gill can't do what Hamr does at ES, he's not even close.

Also, Hamr was reported getting more $ than Gill.... I wonder why...

Stats dont lie?


Congratulations to the Vancouver Canucks, winners of the 2010- 2011 Stanley Cup. They had the best G/G average and the best GA average.


SouthernHab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-04-2011, 06:10 PM
  #62
Ozymandias
#firetherrien
 
Ozymandias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hockey Mecca
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,438
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Stats dont lie?


Congratulations to the Vancouver Canucks, winners of the 2010- 2011 Stanley Cup. They had the best G/G average and the best GA average.

You're a genius for making such a simplistic comparison in lieu of an argument.

You should apply for the nobel.


And yeah stats don't lie, didn't Boston get 16 wins and Vancouver 15?

How much do you need to win a cup?

Sure, if you're not too quick on the uptake, you're gonna take a different stat than the one you're supposed to as the yardstick.

GA is the biggest statistical yardstick for Dmen, but I wouldn't expect you to understand this

Ozymandias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-04-2011, 06:58 PM
  #63
Agnostic
11 Stanley Cups
 
Agnostic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,325
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
You're a genius for making such a simplistic comparison in lieu of an argument.

You should apply for the nobel.


And yeah stats don't lie, didn't Boston get 16 wins and Vancouver 15?

How much do you need to win a cup?

Sure, if you're not too quick on the uptake, you're gonna take a different stat than the one you're supposed to as the yardstick.

GA is the biggest statistical yardstick for Dmen, but I wouldn't expect you to understand this
Your need to be open to the possibility that your index was interesting but overall a waste of effort with no connection to your subject line. Some people are being polite in telling you this.

Agnostic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-04-2011, 10:01 PM
  #64
Bourne Endeavor
Moderator
HFBoards: Night's Watch
 
Bourne Endeavor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,333
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Cammy-Plek-Cole
Pacioretty-Gomez-Gionta
Darche-DD-Kostitsyn (Eller when he returns)
Moen-Engvist-White

Markov-Emelin
Kaberle-Subban
Gill-Gorges
Weber
Spacek (traded)
Except during Leaf games, where we ice Markov and Kaberle together for at least a couple shifts just to troll their fans.

Jest aside, I believe your expectations are somewhat high for Yemelin in his first season. With your lines it is far more likely Kaberle or Subban take the top pairing with Markov. Of course, who knows what Yemelin may bring.

Bourne Endeavor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-04-2011, 10:09 PM
  #65
swimmer77
Post Oates
 
swimmer77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: in water
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 3,404
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
They only offered one year to Gill too.

Kinda normal when players are pass 35 years old. We've heard so much about how it's so perilous to sign them to multi year contracts.


It's very telling that instead of telling us again how Gill is so much better than Hamrlik, you use a sarcasm to run away from the facts. The only thing Gill is better at is the PK, for the rest, Hamr hands down. Deal with it.
Hamrlik's POV

Kinda interesting really. TBH.......I don't know what Gauthier had in mind here because he clearly offered something in terms of money that I would think would have been okay with Hamr. But it appears it was offered too late and Hamr was confident he could get what he said all along he wanted - a retirement contract of sorts.

One has to wonder if Gauthier was playing on the emotions of Hamrlik's feelings since he'd spoken publicly about retiring in Montreal but then it backfired. Gauthier thought he'd shop a little and that didn't pan out as he would have liked. Hamr then decided that since he wasn't a priority he'd go get what he implied he wanted from Gauthier in the first place?

Just don't get what Gauthier was doing here because it was clear Hamrlik wanted to be back and then Gauthier made an offer that seemingly would have been attractive but the timing was off and there was no counteroffer. Had Gauthier lowballed Hamrlik it would make more sense but that doesn't seem to be the case.

swimmer77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2011, 01:15 AM
  #66
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 22,905
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
Hamrlik's POV

Kinda interesting really. TBH.......I don't know what Gauthier had in mind here because he clearly offered something in terms of money that I would think would have been okay with Hamr. But it appears it was offered too late and Hamr was confident he could get what he said all along he wanted - a retirement contract of sorts.

One has to wonder if Gauthier was playing on the emotions of Hamrlik's feelings since he'd spoken publicly about retiring in Montreal but then it backfired. Gauthier thought he'd shop a little and that didn't pan out as he would have liked. Hamr then decided that since he wasn't a priority he'd go get what he implied he wanted from Gauthier in the first place?

Just don't get what Gauthier was doing here because it was clear Hamrlik wanted to be back and then Gauthier made an offer that seemingly would have been attractive but the timing was off and there was no counteroffer. Had Gauthier lowballed Hamrlik it would make more sense but that doesn't seem to be the case.
Also strange is that it sounds like Gauthier could have "low-balled" Hamrlik if he was just willing to tack a second year onto the offer. I really hope Spacek's limited NTC is what got in the way of moving him (assuming any attempt was made at all), because Hamrlik at roughly Gill money - even with a second year tacked on - instead of Spacek would have been unreal... and awesome.

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2011, 07:36 AM
  #67
swimmer77
Post Oates
 
swimmer77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: in water
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 3,404
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Also strange is that it sounds like Gauthier could have "low-balled" Hamrlik if he was just willing to tack a second year onto the offer. I really hope Spacek's limited NTC is what got in the way of moving him (assuming any attempt was made at all), because Hamrlik at roughly Gill money - even with a second year tacked on - instead of Spacek would have been unreal... and awesome.
This isn't making much sense if Gauthier was willing to give Hamrlik 3.5 mil all of the sudden. IMHO Gauthier really limited his options by signing Gill so quickly. Neither was going to be a free agent until July 1 and both were willing to re-sign in Montreal.

By signing Gill and then making Hamrlik wait maybe caused Hamr to lose interest. In the mean time Gauthier tries to go shopping and the free agent market starts to become limited. Then maybe he offers Hamr a contract because he has a taker for Spacek. And then what if Hamr catches wind of that and decides - nope, not gonna sign me at the expense of my buddy. Gauthier wasn't going to offer Hamr two years because Gill actually asked for that too but didn't get it.

Now Gauthier has a void to fill and if he can't he'd better hope the D is relatively injury free and everyone plays as advertised quickly.

Much speculation of course in my post but it'd be fun to know how things transpire in the business of hockey.

One thing I'm confident in is that Gauthier didn't start talking to Hamrlik until a few days okay and then gave a genuine offer. So what changed his mind? Maybe he suddenly did realize this team needed help at ES and Hamr had provided that all along.

swimmer77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2011, 08:21 AM
  #68
One Man Rock Band
T-Ross!!
 
One Man Rock Band's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Habville
Country: Canada
Posts: 46,149
vCash: 500
I have no idea why Gauthier signed Gill over Hamrlik.

Hamrlik @ 2 years > Gill @ 1 year. And I like Gill. But Hamrlik WAS our defense. We made the playoffs every year that Hamrlik was here and if people don't think he was a huge part of that, then I have no idea what to say to them.

I also have no doubt that Hammer would of stayed for a bit cheaper than the contract he signed as well. He WANTED to play in MTL. That's why he didn't even reject the 1-year offer right away. He slept on because he loved it here.

God forbid we lose Markov again because frankly, our defense will be putrid.

One Man Rock Band is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:44 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.