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Are we currently, a BETTER PLAYOFF TEAM ??

View Poll Results: Is this a better playoff team ??
YES 39 27.27%
NO 57 39.86%
Not quite sure yet, need to see a few regular season games before I can decide 47 32.87%
Voters: 143. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-04-2011, 03:39 PM
  #76
Terence Peterman
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Hey DFF:


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07-04-2011, 03:54 PM
  #77
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Without reading any other responses I voted 'YES'... simply because Bryz along with the D-men have the ability to steal series, like Leighton and they did with Montreal in 2010. I believe Briere, Grioux and (now) JvR have shown they can up their games and carry the O in series, and Pronger, Kimmo, Coburn et al have shown that when healthy they can up their games also.

I'm hoping that the new pieces can fit in and gel with them... IMO they were hampered in 2011 without a healthy Pronger and a not ready for prime time Bob. The Goalie Carousel didn't steal any games and had too many 'off' games... and the lack of average goaltending in the 2010 SCF was the reason the 35 year old Stanley Cup drought was ended against the Hawks as Leighton gave up way too many goals/games.

Bryz alone make this team better IMO... unless the new pieces cannot hold up their end with Richie and Carter... and Leino, etc... gone.

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07-04-2011, 03:54 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Rick Blaine View Post
Hey DFF:

Couturier can do that too, and with more thunder! Just wait and see!

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07-04-2011, 03:59 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Rick Blaine View Post
Hey DFF:

My first thought was that this was obviously photoshopped because we all know, Carter never hits!

But after watching it right through to the end, I saw that Lavi was asking for Carter's autograph so it must have really happened!

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07-04-2011, 04:08 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Ahh, the +/- argument. The stat that is always there to back up one's argument when you need it, and a stat that is worthless when it doesn't support the argument. I'll throw out that his 25+ even strength goals, plus his high scoring linemates, probably had something to do with that as well. I'm not a fan of the +/- stat when talking about forwards, especially high scoring forwards. If he was a defenseman and led in +/-, okay now maybe we're talking about something meaningful in terms of defense. But when you are talking about a high scoring forward playing on a high scoring line, the +/- stat is not a great indicator of defense.
do you like GAON/60? I'm going to go out on a limb and bet you haven't looked too hard at the advanced metrics on this team.

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Well, we'll see. I think Simmonds will be a solid defensive player for the Flyers this season, and Voracek I think will be better than most people think. Throw in the fact that we have a real #1 goalie, and I just don't see "lack Jeff Carter's defense" being one of the things people will be pointing to next season when all is said and done. Lack of scoring, maybe. Lack of Richards defense, maybe. But not lack of Jeff Carter's defense. But I guess we'll have to wait and see.
Voracek is known as a BAD defender, so wouldn't count on him helping much. He came in 2nd for worst GAON/60 on the BJs.

Simmonds has good peripherals defensively, but isn't a PKer, so won't be helping there most likely

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07-04-2011, 04:13 PM
  #81
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Losing Lappy and Gagne had a noticeable impact on team defense. Losing Carter and Richards could prove catastrophic. I wouldn't be surprised if our forwards spend a lot of time stuck in their own zone this season.

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07-04-2011, 04:16 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
Without reading any other responses I voted 'YES'... simply because Bryz along with the D-men have the ability to steal series, like Leighton and they did with Montreal in 2010. I believe Briere, Grioux and (now) JvR have shown they can up their games and carry the O in series, and Pronger, Kimmo, Coburn et al have shown that when healthy they can up their games also.

I'm hoping that the new pieces can fit in and gel with them... IMO they were hampered in 2011 without a healthy Pronger and a not ready for prime time Bob. The Goalie Carousel didn't steal any games and had too many 'off' games... and the lack of average goaltending in the 2010 SCF was the reason the 35 year old Stanley Cup drought was ended against the Hawks as Leighton gave up way too many goals/games.

Bryz alone make this team better IMO... unless the new pieces cannot hold up their end with Richie and Carter... and Leino, etc... gone.
Leighton didn't steal the Montreal series. He didn't steal a single game.

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07-04-2011, 04:21 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Leighton didn't steal the Montreal series. He didn't steal a single game.
The only thing Leighton did was to grow tall, thus, enabling him to see over the heads of the smurfs down the middle.

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07-04-2011, 04:43 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
do you like GAON/60? I'm going to go out on a limb and bet you haven't looked too hard at the advanced metrics on this team.
Nope, have not. Let me guess Jeff Carter has the highest GAON/60 than any player in history! Let's get into another debate about superstats though. Last time was great!

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Voracek is known as a BAD defender, so wouldn't count on him helping much. He came in 2nd for worst GAON/60 on the BJs.
That's fine, I didn't say he was going to be great. I said he was going to be better than most people think. He's a big guy playing with better players. I'm willing to bet he improves.

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Simmonds has good peripherals defensively, but isn't a PKer, so won't be helping there most likely
Carter got :39 PK per game on average. I'm least worried about replacing his PK ability.

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07-04-2011, 04:58 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Nope, have not. Let me guess Jeff Carter has the highest GAON/60 than any player in history! Let's get into another debate about superstats though. Last time was great!



That's fine, I didn't say he was going to be great. I said he was going to be better than most people think. He's a big guy playing with better players. I'm willing to bet he improves.



Carter got :39 PK per game on average. I'm least worried about replacing his PK ability.
talbot is going to be wicked on the pk with giroux. I see holmstrom and betts as the other combo.

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07-04-2011, 05:01 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Leighton didn't steal the Montreal series. He didn't steal a single game.
I believe we should give the Devil his due... so to speak... Leighton crapped the bed in the SCF but pitched three Shutouts and a one two goal game in beating the Habs four games while giving up five goals in the one Montreal win when they returned home two games down and the Flyers D had a bad game in front of him... I will grant you the Flyers D-men and Richie and the Forwards had a real good series... but when a goalie has three shutouts and a two goal game in a four game series I personally would give a nod to that goalie even if the Flyers goal scoring was cranked up in the games they won; they were cranked up in most of the losses against the Hawks also but the Flyers goaltending faltered... If you want to say the Flyers won due to their scoring and ignore the solid goaltending I suppose you have that right... but if the goaltending stunk and the forwards needed to alter their game to adjust the outcome may have been greatly different.

I say Leighton's goaltending took that series based on four solid games and three being shutouts... If you want to say he didn't seal the series that's fine, but imagine a goalie that could steal series where the Flyers are outplayed which I believe Bryz can and that was my point.

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07-04-2011, 05:03 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Blaine View Post
Hey DFF:

Hey Rick Blaine:



Not difficult to find a clip of a player making a good play.

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07-04-2011, 05:09 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Nope, have not. Let me guess Jeff Carter has the highest GAON/60 than any player in history! Let's get into another debate about superstats though. Last time was great!
great for everyone else. Maybe avoid talking shop on stats if you don't want to inform yourself first.

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That's fine, I didn't say he was going to be great. I said he was going to be better than most people think. He's a big guy playing with better players. I'm willing to bet he improves.
improving from terrible is a strong prognosis.

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Carter got :39 PK per game on average. I'm least worried about replacing his PK ability.
wonder if there is anyone else we need to replace?

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07-04-2011, 05:19 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
I believe we should give the Devil his due... so to speak... Leighton crapped the bed in the SCF but pitched three Shutouts and a one two goal game in beating the Habs four games while giving up five goals in the one Montreal win when they returned home two games down and the Flyers D had a bad game in front of him... I will grant you the Flyers D-men and Richie and the Forwards had a real good series... but when a goalie has three shutouts and a two goal game in a four game series I personally would give a nod to that goalie even if the Flyers goal scoring was cranked up in the games they won; they were cranked up in most of the losses against the Hawks also but the Flyers goaltending faltered... If you want to say the Flyers won due to their scoring and ignore the solid goaltending I suppose you have that right... but if the goaltending stunk and the forwards needed to alter their game to adjust the outcome may have been greatly different.

I say Leighton's goaltending took that series based on four solid games and three being shutouts... If you want to say he didn't seal the series that's fine, but imagine a goalie that could steal series where the Flyers are outplayed which I believe Bryz can and that was my point.
Montreal was completely outclassed by our sisters in that series. Leighton stole jack in that series. Biron stole the previous series against Montreal.


Sisters for skaters, iPad...really?


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Old
07-04-2011, 05:22 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
great for everyone else. Maybe avoid talking shop on stats if you don't want to inform yourself first.
I wasn't talking about whatever stat you are talking about. Neither was the other poster that I was responding to. You brought it up, I said I didn't know about it.

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improving from terrible is a strong prognosis.
Doesn't mean I am wrong though. An improvement is an improvement and playing better is playing better. I said I think he's going to be better than people think. Time will tell on that one.

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wonder if there is anyone else we need to replace?
I know we are going to miss Richards on the PK. We are going miss his defense a lot in all facets of the game. I never said we weren't. I was talking specifically about Carter.

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07-04-2011, 05:22 PM
  #91
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Couldn't be worse than last year, right?

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07-04-2011, 05:31 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I wasn't talking about whatever stat you are talking about. Neither was the other poster that I was responding to. You brought it up, I said I didn't know about it.



Doesn't mean I am wrong though. An improvement is an improvement and playing better is playing better. I said I think he's going to be better than people think. Time will tell on that one.



I know we are going to miss Richards on the PK. We are going miss his defense a lot in all facets of the game. I never said we weren't. I was talking specifically about Carter.
You critiqued +/- as a defensive stat. Well, there are others... And they show that his solid + had a lot to do with D. +/- is also quite useful when contextualized.

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07-04-2011, 05:31 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Hey Rick Blaine:



Not difficult to find a clip of a player making a good play.
The difference between those videos is that 1) its not easy to find clips of good defensive plays and 2) Carter routinely makes good/sound defensive plays, whereas Jody Shelley doesn't routinely score goals.

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07-04-2011, 05:32 PM
  #94
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Couldn't be worse than last year, right?
2 seed and winning a playoff round?

Yes, it could be.

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07-04-2011, 05:37 PM
  #95
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Montreal was completely outclassed by our sisters in that series. Leighton stole jack in that series. Biron stole the previous series against Montreal.
Granted the entire team played in control, I will not take that way from them... but a goalie can luck out in games throughout the season and stumble upon a shutout from time to time -- except Bob, apparently -- but IMO a goalie cannot luck out three shutouts over five games without being at least a little in a 'zone'... and certainly no against one team in a postseason game... and a team that was playing very well coming in.

I will be the first to say that Leighton was a deserving goat in the Flyers not winning the Cup last year... but in that brief snapshot in the season I cannot deny he played well.

I understand how saying he 'stole' the series is finding objections since the game played well... but if we are to put horns on him for the Hawks series I think it only fair to credit him for three shutouts and getting the Flyers to the SCF in decent shape and health after a short Conference Final Round.

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07-04-2011, 05:42 PM
  #96
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The flyers would have beaten mtl regardless of who was in net. Leighton was not the decisive factor.

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07-04-2011, 05:43 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
Granted the entire team played in control, I will not take that way from them... but a goalie can luck out in games throughout the season and stumble upon a shutout from time to time -- except Bob, apparently -- but IMO a goalie cannot luck out three shutouts over five games without being at least a little in a 'zone'... and certainly no against one team in a postseason game... and a team that was playing very well coming in.

I will be the first to say that Leighton was a deserving goat in the Flyers not winning the Cup last year... but in that brief snapshot in the season I cannot deny he played well.

I understand how saying he 'stole' the series is finding objections since the game played well... but if we are to put horns on him for the Hawks series I think it only fair to credit him for three shutouts and getting the Flyers to the SCF in decent shape and health after a short Conference Final Round.
Just because he was a goat in one series doesn't mean he was a hero in another. Montreal played horribly against. The only game they crashed the net... They won.

In the four wins, we scored 6, 3, 3, and 4 goals.

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07-04-2011, 05:46 PM
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07-04-2011, 05:59 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
The difference between those videos is that 1) its not easy to find clips of good defensive plays and 2) Carter routinely makes good/sound defensive plays, whereas Jody Shelley doesn't routinely score goals.
I agree for the most part, but nice defensive plays happen more often than nice offensive plays – as nice of a play that Carter made, and one cannot take that away from him, it's not to say Crosby scores on every shift, and to an extent, every time he has the puck on his stick in the other team's zone someone typically has to make a play on him, which over the coarse of a game happens more often than him scoring by default.

That was a nice play by Carter, but the people throwing it around as a single rebuttal saying he can play defense is simply silly.

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07-04-2011, 06:13 PM
  #100
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Just because he was a goat in one series doesn't mean he was a hero in another. Montreal played horribly against. The only game they crashed the net... They won.

In the four wins, we scored 6, 3, 3, and 4 goals.
Of course not, I never said that... I just believe that if we are saying the entire team played great against the Habs and therefore we should say that the entire team deserves the credit and Leighton doesn't in spite of three shutouts and only two goals in the four wins... then maybe we shouldn't say Leighton is he reason the Flyers lost the SCF Round even though the entire team played a loosey-goosey bunch of games -- granted the Flyers were pressed to make up for bad goals given... but I'd say the team's D wasn't so great and the top D-men had little left in the tank.

Personally I'd give Leighton BOTH the credit and blame in the two series... and again my original point was that a relatively steady goalie such as Bryz should prevent that from occurring in that manner going forward.

In any case, I don't think this horse should be beaten any longer... and I don't really believe we are that much in disagreement as we agree the Flyers as a team, including Leighton played well in one series and not so much in the other... at least I hope we aren't.

EDIT: And the Flyers did score a lot of goals in the SCF also, BTW.

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