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[MIN/SJS] Minnesota trades Martin Havlat to San Jose for Dany Heatley

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Old
07-04-2011, 06:56 PM
  #976
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Originally Posted by GunsnRosesPenguins91 View Post
Really excited for the season to start to watch Havlat with the Sharks. Anybody think he will play with Patrick Marleau? I can see him setting up Marleau on a regular basis and feeding him goals throughout the season. Then again, Thornton can probably do the same thing. But I see him and Marleau playing well together.
if that isnt the fastest set of wingers in the league i have no idea... and jumbo leading the league in takeaways... wow...

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07-04-2011, 07:04 PM
  #977
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Originally Posted by GunsnRosesPenguins91 View Post
Really excited for the season to start to watch Havlat with the Sharks. Anybody think he will play with Patrick Marleau? I can see him setting up Marleau on a regular basis and feeding him goals throughout the season. Then again, Thornton can probably do the same thing. But I see him and Marleau playing well together.
Not likely. They'll want to spread out the speed so unless DW acquires another speedy top six caliber player, Havlat and Marleau won't see too much time together.

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07-04-2011, 07:07 PM
  #978
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Originally Posted by Thrillingbroom View Post
Yeah I knew some player have windows after July 1st but I guess Heatley didn't have a window till the 2nd year of his contract?
2nd or 3rd, since we may have just not tried to use it last offseason for obvious reasons. He signed the contract in 08 so this is his 3rd year into it.

Makes sense to have it change to a more limited nmc half way through the 6 year contract.

It surprised sharks fans because zero media reported about the limited-ness of the contract. I think pollack even said that heatley couldn't be moved because of it(if I remember correctly...)

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Old
07-04-2011, 07:08 PM
  #979
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Originally Posted by State of Hockey View Post
We saw it. He showed us a lot of speed, creativity, and scoring chances. It just wasn't quite as prolific as Wild fans were hoping for.

And no chemistry? How about single-handedly turning Latendresse and Brodziak into goal scorers?
Well, I can't really give you Latendresse, cause he played like 11 games.

But I did say he only had chemsitry with Brodziak, but really, is that the ideal situation we wanted for a guy we paid for 5 mil? To play with a third line center?

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07-04-2011, 07:12 PM
  #980
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
Not likely. They'll want to spread out the speed so unless DW acquires another speedy top six caliber player, Havlat and Marleau won't see too much time together.
I think Todd will mix it up and see what works. We'll probably see Marleau-Thornton-Havlat at some point.

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Old
07-04-2011, 07:14 PM
  #981
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Originally Posted by SilverSeven View Post
And Sharks fans called us bitter when we said he would be out of SJ in 3 years tops.

Its funny, Atlanta fans warned us and we ignored it saying they were bitter. We warned SJ fans and they did the same. Now he is Minnys problem.
Sharks fans, in general, have had nothing but nice things to say about Dany Heatley the person. We're happy to see him go in that he wasn't a fit on our team, but none of us harness the sort of bitter rage and resentment Senators fans have/had when he was traded.

You guys were right in that he would be gone in a few seasons, but only partially correct as to why. It had nothing to do with him as a person, it was entirely contract, playoff performance (full credit to Sens fans for warning us about this), and his lack of speed.

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Old
07-04-2011, 07:17 PM
  #982
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Originally Posted by SJfortheCUP View Post
I think Todd will mix it up and see what works. We'll probably see Marleau-Thornton-Havlat at some point.
It does leave the 2nd as clowe-pavs-couture but that's still faster than clowe-pavs-heater which we did see at times last year lol.

I agree that we'll see many line combos to see what sticks, some suggest pavs as the top line RW and clowe-couture-havlat, idk how well that'll work but it would spread the speed out.

Clowe-pavs-havlat, with couture on the top line, might be too many passers. But again we'll see how guys play with each other and what sticks will stick.

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Old
07-04-2011, 07:20 PM
  #983
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Originally Posted by bigwillie View Post
Sharks fans, in general, have had nothing but nice things to say about Dany Heatley the person. We're happy to see him go in that he wasn't a fit on our team, but none of us harness the sort of bitter rage and resentment Senators fans have/had when he was traded.

You guys were right in that he would be gone in a few seasons, but only partially correct as to why. It had nothing to do with him as a person, it was entirely contract, playoff performance (full credit to Sens fans for warning us about this), and his lack of speed.
I think we'd have that resentment if he asked to be traded from us and then used his NMC to decline a trade that probably would have given ottawa quite a bit higher return for him, instead going here for our overpaid ahler cheechoo and frail 20 goal scorer michalek.

Wait...Havlat and milan are both czechs..With some injury concerns. I'd still rather have havlat.

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Old
07-04-2011, 07:21 PM
  #984
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
Not likely. They'll want to spread out the speed so unless DW acquires another speedy top six caliber player, Havlat and Marleau won't see too much time together.
Havlat and Thornton shouldn't see too much time together either. Unless you stick Couture on that line. Havlat does not really score goals. His highest is what? 30?

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07-04-2011, 07:34 PM
  #985
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Originally Posted by Clowe Me View Post
Some players, especially higher paid ones, have trouble manufacturing effort when they play on a team that is out of it. I don't know if that was Havlat's case in Minnesota, but I can remember him in his Sens days being one fast mofo.
Funny, because when the Wild were on the cusp of a playoff spot is exactly when Havlat shut 'er down.

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07-04-2011, 07:34 PM
  #986
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Originally Posted by Tealblood View Post
Some players start to get "windows" of limited nmc(10 teams he doesn't want to go to) as the contract goes on. So one of those windows started july 1 and probably went till august for the sharks to deal him if they wanted.
Boyle's NTC turns into a limited one in a year or two, I believe.

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Old
07-04-2011, 07:38 PM
  #987
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Originally Posted by thespeckledkiwi View Post
Havlat and Thornton shouldn't see too much time together either. Unless you stick Couture on that line. Havlat does not really score goals. His highest is what? 30?
Who knows till they really play together though, when thornton gets shut down from time to time our line gets completely shut down, no one else really makes plays on that line. Marleau would have two playmakers to work with if havlat was on that line, and one that's about as fast as him too. So the opponent double team's thornton like usual and havlat sneaks a pass in to patty with the extra space open.

But it does make the 2nd line look a little slow. That may be less of an issue with our more mobile defense though.

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Old
07-04-2011, 07:54 PM
  #988
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Originally Posted by GuelphMadHatter View Post
I only really watched San Jose in the Vancouver series, but he was invisible the entire time.... like very rarely did he ever seem to have the puck. Totally out of it.
By that time he was so beaten down, he was playing on the 3rd line and PKing. So no real surprise there.

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Originally Posted by 4thliner View Post
That is why you are now a 26 goal scorer in 82 games with Joe Thornton.
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Originally Posted by Kitten Mittons View Post
He scored 39 goals with Thornton. He scored 26 with Couture.
Please, if there is one thing the wider community takes from this thread, it's the need for basic team knowledge before attempting hockey analysis. Heatley played on the 2nd line last year with Couture who himself scored over 30 goals. And in fact Heatley set up a lot of those goals. He is actually a very good playmaker.

He did not have a career-low year playing with Thornton.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thespeckledkiwi View Post
Last 5 year totals:

114 points
96 points
86 points
89 points
70 points

Hmm, seems to me like he's slowly diminishing in his capacity. And funny how Jumbo Joe had one of his worst seasons in like 10 years and no one blinks an eye about that.

Hell, he lost 20 assists in one year.
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Originally Posted by SJfortheCUP View Post
You didn't watch the games.
And if there's a second thing people take from this thread, it's that people who actually watch a team all season are best equipped to analyze the importance of a change in a player's stats. While there is often some apologism among fans of a team, this usually manifests as a split in opinion about the whys and wherefores of a player's point production decline.

However, you will find near-unanimity on Thornton's point decline among Sharks fans. That is because we see what kind of game he is playing now and understand that that game gives us a better chance to win games, especially in the playoffs, than his 100-point game. That said, he did have a down season last season due to a poor 1st half by the entire team. A defensively-modified point total for Jumbo Joe is probably in the 80-90 point range and that's where I expect him to be this coming season.

Joe's point-production decline tracks the team's adoption of Tmac's defensive system, and is further modified by the quality of the defensive unit (i.e. how much the forwards have to make up for defensive lapses).

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwillie View Post
playoff performance (full credit to Sens fans for warning us about this), and his lack of speed.
I don't know that they even deserve credit for this. I know this Shark fan saw a lot to like from Heatley in the playoffs, which was completely dragged down both years by injury. If he had ever been blessed with good health entering and through the playoffs, I have no doubts that he would be an impact player throughout. His problem is that he did tend to get beat down, something Sens fans did not pin as a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thespeckledkiwi View Post
Havlat and Thornton shouldn't see too much time together either. Unless you stick Couture on that line. Havlat does not really score goals. His highest is what? 30?
As if 30 goals is an indicator of "not scoring goals"! If a player is consistently in the 20s he is counted on as an offensive threat; 30+ shows the player can be a serious scorer.


Last edited by Phu: 07-04-2011 at 08:00 PM.
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Old
07-04-2011, 08:01 PM
  #989
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Originally Posted by Rapid eye movemenT View Post
I wish we could flash back to yesterday before this trade happened to hear the opinions of both fan bases regarding our new players. (Minn's view of Heatley, SJ's view of Havlat).

But I will say this - Wild fans, the majority of you don't know Dany Heatley. You just don't. You see stats and you read posts on HF boards. The fact that you're ignoring many of the knowledgable Sharks fans who are giving you opinions is beyond me. I wanted to really like Heater, but he's a one dimensional player who's on the decline. You can't compare him to Thornton. Jumbo is FAR from one dimensional.

Just sayin'.
This allows me to say the same about Burns lawl! You traded a truck load of goods for a guy who isn't the same since his concussion. If not for his new found timidity, he would be un-trade-able.

fact

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07-04-2011, 08:14 PM
  #990
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This allows me to say the same about Burns lawl! You traded a truck load of goods for a guy who isn't the same since his concussion. If not for his new found timidity, he would be un-trade-able.

fact
Dmen who score as much as forwards(especially forwards on your team) are rarer than the streaky 20 goal scoring forward, and prospects, we gave up for him.

That's without the increase in talent surrounding him now, having more talented guys who can score off of his shots and passes.

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07-04-2011, 08:16 PM
  #991
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Wow this trade really surprised me! I thought the Sharks were pretty much stuck with Healtey's contract..This trade kind of reminds be the Minnesota-Montreal trade where Pouliot was traded for Latendresse: Both organizations traded players that seemed unhappy and that were on a constant down slope (except that those players are way better) . If I'd have to pick a winner in that trade, I would definitely put the Sharks as winners for 3 simple reasons:
1- Havlat's salary is inferior to Heatley's
2- Havlat speed is a great fit for the Sharks
3- Heatley's performance during playoffs are questionable.

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07-04-2011, 08:17 PM
  #992
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Altough I kinda liked Havlat, I'm pretty excited about this trade!
Lets go Wild!!!

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07-04-2011, 08:21 PM
  #993
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Originally Posted by Tealblood View Post
Dmen who score as much as forwards(especially forwards on your team) are rarer than the streaky 20 goal scoring forward, and prospects, we gave up for him.

That's without the increase in talent surrounding him now, having more talented guys who can score off of his shots and passes.
If the ducks don't goon him once in the times they meet

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07-04-2011, 08:29 PM
  #994
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Why does thread have to be people trying to figure out a team who "won" the trade?

Why can't both teams win? This is rediculous.

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07-04-2011, 08:41 PM
  #995
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Why can't both teams win? This is rediculous.
Because one of them got Heatley

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07-04-2011, 08:52 PM
  #996
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If the ducks don't goon him once in the times they meet
Ducks aren't even that scary without pronger and a few of the other big guys they used to have lol. Stars are probably meaner nowadays.

Burns played 80 games, hit plenty, blocked plenty of shots and still fought people, so how did he become "timid"? Shying away from being hit is simply smart hockey lol.

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07-04-2011, 08:56 PM
  #997
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Ducks aren't even that scary without pronger and a few of the other big guys they used to have lol. Stars are probably meaner nowadays.

Burns played 80 games, hit plenty, blocked plenty of shots and still fought people, so how did he become "timid"? Shying away from being hit is simply smart hockey lol.
He did? That's news to Wild fans.

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07-04-2011, 08:57 PM
  #998
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Originally Posted by Tealblood View Post
Ducks aren't even that scary without pronger and a few of the other big guys they used to have lol. Stars are probably meaner nowadays.

Burns played 80 games, hit plenty, blocked plenty of shots and still fought people, so how did he become "timid"? Shying away from being hit is simply smart hockey lol.
He was trade-able and I have watched him since he was a rookie.....If he was worth it, this new regime would've signed him. Regardless, we also get Heatley for a disinterested Havlat.

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07-04-2011, 09:02 PM
  #999
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Originally Posted by juantimer View Post
Words.
No offense, but you seem quite adamant to defend Heatley when the cold hard truth is that his play has diminished enough that he wasn't even earning his $7.5/mill paycheque in SJ.

I mean cripes, at least the guy put up the points in Ottawa which validated his salary. Now his goal totals have been cut in half and he has been quite brutal when it matters most.

I find it incredible that people continue to defend the man after what he has done up to this point in his career - both on and off the ice. The guy has been given enough of a fair shake so far that continuing to do so boggles the mind.

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07-04-2011, 09:04 PM
  #1000
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He did? That's news to Wild fans.
Oh... I saw 98 pims and assumed. Turns out he only fought twice. Still...my statement technically wasn't wrong. Looking at his fight card he never was a fighter even before the injury, fights like twice a year.

I guess he's pretty undisciplined then?

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