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Jacques Martin: 2011-2012 Season

View Poll Results: Will Jacques Martin be our coach come offseason 2012?
He will still be coach after this season 86 86.87%
He will be fired during this season 9 9.09%
He will be fired after this season 4 4.04%
Voters: 99. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-04-2011, 02:13 PM
  #26
MooseOllini
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I honestly think Martin did a great job with us so far. I bet his neutrality with the media facing the Gomez situation last year is gonna pay off this year.

Here's my prediction

2011-2012

Scott Gomez

14 G
48 A
62 Pts

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Old
07-04-2011, 02:17 PM
  #27
Fish on The Sand
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
We didn't sneak into the POs last year despite our many problems. Those problems will be fixed by season's start, so why exactly would we sneak into them this time around?
Buffalo and NYR have both passed us, and we have gotten a little worse, while the Leafs and Devils will be a lot better.

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Old
07-04-2011, 02:34 PM
  #28
Ollie Williams
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
Buffalo and NYR have both passed us, and we have gotten a little worse, while the Leafs and Devils will be a lot better.
We have gotten a little worse? We got upgrades on all levels yet we got a little worse? The Leafs and Devils got a lot better sure. This in no way shape or form dictates that either of them is better than we are.

Buffalo and NYR have both passed us? I can give you that (even if it's not true). Both were playoff teams last season too so nothing has changed in that regard. Meanwhile, Philly doesn't know what the hell it's doing and Tampa hasn't even signed Stamkos to a deal yet.


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07-04-2011, 02:38 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
Buffalo and NYR have both passed us, and we have gotten a little worse, while the Leafs and Devils will be a lot better.
In the context of not having Gorges, Pacioretty and Markov for a better part of the season I respectfully disagree.

Adding those 3 players healthy + Cole imo makes us a better team.

Losing Wiz and Hammer hurts but we also have Emelin and Weber who will be looking for ice time and Spacek with limited minutes is a good D. We aren't far off defensively from what we were if all goes well in terms of health.

Plus we might not even be done yet, plenty of cap space to use. I don't think we're that far off from last year in fact with our young players developing strong and hopefully the addition of Emelin and prog of Weber being good, we're actually a better team barring any of those health concerns or development concerns coming up.

With Weber/Subban I don't think we have any reason to be concerned.

Markov/Pacioretty maybe due to injuries. In the end though we just have too many good players once again for it to fall apart, plenty of cap space and deadline deals available as usual.

I don't see this club missing the playoffs. I also don't see NYR being better than we are even with Richards. I see Buffalo being a stronger team, I see Toronto being better, I see NYR flopping even with Richards. Just my gut feeling. Even with him though I still don't think they're anything special.

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07-04-2011, 02:55 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
Buffalo and NYR have both passed us, and we have gotten a little worse, while the Leafs and Devils will be a lot better.
plz elaborate how did we got a little worst?

Cammy,Gionta,Gomez,
Pleckanec,Eller,Darche,
Kostitsyn,desharnais,White,
Moen

Gill,Subban,
Weber

Price

all those players played last year and they are all back. + we get Markov,Gorges,Pacioretty (who are coming back from injury's) and Cole and Budaj + a few rookies.

all we really lost is the Wiz but we wont need him as far as Markov stays healthy.

SO plz tell me how are we going to be worse then last year

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Old
07-04-2011, 03:04 PM
  #31
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Many players do better on their 2nd team. Its not exclusive to Montreal, although it sometimes seems that way.

It is a total wake up call for players when they are discarded.

They have worked hard all of their lives to make the pros, and can see that a new crop of youth is going to rise up and steal their spot if they are not hungry enough.

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07-04-2011, 03:04 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
Buffalo and NYR have both passed us, and we have gotten a little worse, while the Leafs and Devils will be a lot better.
That's about as poor of an assessment as one can do.

How we got worse as opposed to the Leafs and even Devils is a complete mystery to me.
Buffalo and Rangers did get better, but I don't see how they're not ahead of us with such clarity.

But I'm not surprised by your stance, you've been crying over management since Wiz wasn't re-signed and failed to acknowledge the return of Markov/Gorges as improvements alone. Kind of unfair as I'm sure you'll be saying Pittsburgh will be just fine considering Crosby/Malkin will be back while only adding Sullivan.

And if you want to argue that we got worse, well, Philly lost Richards and Carter, Boston lost Recchi, Ryder and likely Kaberle, TB lost Gagné and Bergenheim. If we got worse, then so did a big number of teams.


Last edited by Kriss E: 07-04-2011 at 03:10 PM.
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Old
07-04-2011, 03:08 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
Buffalo and NYR have both passed us, and we have gotten a little worse, while the Leafs and Devils will be a lot better.
Montreal will be better, but the East will be a serious dogfight. No doubt about it.

There will be no margin of error. Any team that pulls an 8 game losing streak will likely miss the play offs.

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07-04-2011, 04:42 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
So what you're saying is that you believe our group is good enough to win it all?

And taking such a black/white approach is rather foolish. What if Price gets injured and only plays 20games, as well as other players getting injured yet again, will you hold him responsible and fire him because he couldn't win with Budaj?
If injuries were a reason to retain a coach when the team performed poorly, then a coach should never be fired. Hockey is a violent sport and teams rarely make it through a season without injuries.

And, if Price is the only way that we can win, make the playoffs and then win the Cup, Martin should be fired for being one-dimensional and relying on a single player for success.

But to the OP, Martin will be around after the end of the next season. The Canadiens will finish somewhere between 6-9 and will be eliminated in the playoffs again before reaching the Stanley Cup Finals.

Gauthier will protect Martin regardless and Martin's offensive system is weak and his defensive system places too much of a burden on the goalie. We are not AGGRESSIVE enough on either side to win it all.

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07-04-2011, 05:24 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
That's about as poor of an assessment as one can do.

How we got worse as opposed to the Leafs and even Devils is a complete mystery to me.
Buffalo and Rangers did get better, but I don't see how they're not ahead of us with such clarity.

But I'm not surprised by your stance, you've been crying over management since Wiz wasn't re-signed and failed to acknowledge the return of Markov/Gorges as improvements alone. Kind of unfair as I'm sure you'll be saying Pittsburgh will be just fine considering Crosby/Malkin will be back while only adding Sullivan.

And if you want to argue that we got worse, well, Philly lost Richards and Carter, Boston lost Recchi, Ryder and likely Kaberle, TB lost Gagné and Bergenheim. If we got worse, then so did a big number of teams.
Philadelphia overall improved over last season, and gaining Markov and losing Wiz is only a marginal improvement. Losing Ryder and Recchi is not a big loss for Boston, and especially Kaberle. He was only on the team for the end of the season and struggled fitting into their system. You also forget to mention that all these teams were substantially better than us last season. We had an opportunity to get better and make a mark. Teams like Buffalo and New York saw this opportunity and ran with it, while we decided to cut salary.

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Old
07-04-2011, 05:26 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
If injuries were a reason to retain a coach when the team performed poorly, then a coach should never be fired. Hockey is a violent sport and teams rarely make it through a season without injuries.

And, if Price is the only way that we can win, make the playoffs and then win the Cup, Martin should be fired for being one-dimensional and relying on a single player for success.

But to the OP, Martin will be around after the end of the next season. The Canadiens will finish somewhere between 6-9 and will be eliminated in the playoffs again before reaching the Stanley Cup Finals.

Gauthier will protect Martin regardless and Martin's offensive system is weak and his defensive system places too much of a burden on the goalie. We are not AGGRESSIVE enough on either side to win it all.
You'll have to explain to me how a defensive system puts a burden on the goalie.

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Old
07-04-2011, 08:27 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
If injuries were a reason to retain a coach when the team performed poorly, then a coach should never be fired.
I think your missing the point. Injuries weren't the reason this team performed poorly.

This team over performed given all the injuries they had. That is why JM earns more time. He still found a way to win and make the playoffs and overcame all those problems.

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Old
07-04-2011, 08:33 PM
  #38
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My good friends Dad is very close with Kirk Muller and I just want to put an end to the speculation of him ever coaching in MTL, his apparent dream job is actually to be the head coach of the Toronto maple leafs, believe it or not.

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07-04-2011, 09:26 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Why was last seson bad? The Habs finished 2nd in their division to the Cup winner and 6th in the East. They had a better regular season record than the team that went to the ECF and failed by 1 goal to advance. As for having a better year in 2011-12, it's possible but I don't take it for granted. It's all relative to the opposition. I see significant improvement in at least 4 teams in the East: Caps, Rangers, Leafs, and most significantly, the Sabres, as well as possible improvement in the Devils and Islanders. I would have added the Panthers were it not for their losing Vokoun.
Last year wasn't all bad, but we did not do better then the year before. Many reasons can explain why we were not able to do better. My point is that since the lockout and even before that you can see a trend. We never had 3 years in a row with a progression.

Let start in 2000-01. The year before we had 83 points and that year we got only 70. It is the 3rd year in a row they don't make the playoff. bad

2001-02 We finished with 87 points, made the playoff, beat the Bruins and lost to the Hurricanes. Koivu cameback that year. good

2002-03 Despite alot of hope at the start of the season we finished with 77 points and were out of the playoff for a 4rth time in 5 years. bad

2003-04 Bob Gainey took control, we acquired Kovalev and finished the season with 93 points. We made our first come back in the history of the habs from a 3-1 deficit in playoff against the Bruins and then lost in 4 against Tampa bay. good

2004-05 lock out could not be worst. bad

2005-06 This season we discovered Huet and Streit. Bob Gainey fired Julien and the habs finished the season with 8 straights win to secure a spot in the playoffs. We started the playoff strong only to loose in 6 against the Hurricanes. This season had probably the most exciting ending in regular season in a long time for the habs. good

2006-07 This was a hard season for the habs with alot of injuries and we finished with 90 points. Last game of the season was a lost 6-5 to Toronto that excluded us from the playoff. bad

2007-08 Alot of good things happened and we finished with 104 points and loost in second rounds against the Flyers. It was the best year since the Stanley cup year.good

2008-09 We finished 8th with 93 points. Carboneau lost his job, Markov got injured and we lost in 4 against the Bruins. Realy depressing year. bad

2009-10 The habs made so many changes in the lineup and behind the bench with the arrival of Jacques Martin. We finished 8th with 88 points. It was also a year with alot of injuries. This would have been a bad one, but we made it to the conference final for the first time since we won the Stanley cup. good

2010-11 Last year we had pretty much the same team as 2009-10 except Price became our only option in the net. Injuries in defense and underperforming fowards made the year harder for Jacques Martin. Despite everything we saw a progression in regular season compared to 2009-2010. We finished 6th but were not able to pass the Bruins in first round. To me it was a deception, but undestandable because of the injuries in defense. Still it was a bad year compared to 2009-10.

2011-12 should be a year where we can see a progression compared to 2010-11. In my opinion we will pass the first round and maybe the second. Jacques Martin won't be fired if he can pass the second round. I hope this year is the one. I believe we have what it takes to win the cup

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Old
07-04-2011, 09:32 PM
  #40
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I like his system. But I hate how he shows no emotion at all. When the refs really aren't on your side, he's just... ****ing not there, looks like he doesn't give a ****. And I don't like how he treats rookies and vets. Of course he's better qualified then me for this, but imo, if you're gona be patient with vets, than it's fine if you're slightly patient with some rookies rather than bench/healthy scratch/demoting. But I suppose he does most of that in order to insure wins... Only reason I see him staying is because our team plays well. Hopefully, at least, he treats rookies with a bit more patience. He's gone if we don't make the playoffs or if we get destroyed in PO.

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07-04-2011, 10:12 PM
  #41
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I like JM a lot. Perfect coach for MTL's crazy atmosphere, never too high never too low. Brought stability, discipline and respect back to the organization. We needed a coach like him badly. Finished 8th his first season, 6th last year, you better believe we will finish in the top 5 in the conference this year. Hes all about progress built with a solid foundation. I love the way he handles the young players, making them earn their place, exactly the way it should be in life. Many fans want fireworks and an offensive team right now but it doesnt work that way. You want a good team for the next decade like Detroit, you put the fondation and the philosophy in place first and then you watch your team progress every year and then maintain the success. Thats what JM is all about. I know we are impatient and hungry for a cup every year but we are not too far thanks to JM.

I see him be the coach of this team for the next 5 years.

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07-04-2011, 11:18 PM
  #42
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If PG is still there then so will JM

It's the country club of the Ottawa Senators

Pierre Gauthier used to be GM of the sens
Jacques Martin used to be the coach of the sens
Randy Cunneyworth used to be the captain of the sens

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07-04-2011, 11:20 PM
  #43
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Just wondering, is JM considered 'respected' by players around the league?

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07-04-2011, 11:27 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by HabsNation514 View Post
Just wondering, is JM considered 'respected' by players around the league?
All I hear about is how "business" like he is.

He has always been out of the spotlight, and that's how he likes it... the question doesnt really come out a whole lot.

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07-04-2011, 11:36 PM
  #45
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You'll have to explain to me how a defensive system puts a burden on the goalie.
Simple.

If you watched the Bruins vs the Canucks in the Stanley Cup Finals, you would have noticed that the Bruins played a very high pressure and aggressive style of defense.

And, if you remember the Canadiens in the playoffs, they played a very passive defense with a default of having all 5 players on the ice sagging toward Price.

There was no comparison between the two styles of defense emplyed by Martin and Julien. And obviously one was a little more successful.

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07-04-2011, 11:38 PM
  #46
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I think your missing the point. Injuries weren't the reason this team performed poorly.

This team over performed given all the injuries they had. That is why JM earns more time. He still found a way to win and make the playoffs and overcame all those problems.

That's not what I was talking about. I was referring to the scenario regarding the possibility of Price being injured this season offered up by KrissE......and not the past season.

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07-04-2011, 11:41 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
Philadelphia overall improved over last season, and gaining Markov and losing Wiz is only a marginal improvement. Losing Ryder and Recchi is not a big loss for Boston, and especially Kaberle. He was only on the team for the end of the season and struggled fitting into their system. You also forget to mention that all these teams were substantially better than us last season. We had an opportunity to get better and make a mark. Teams like Buffalo and New York saw this opportunity and ran with it, while we decided to cut salary.
Dude, you have to stop making yourself look bad..

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07-04-2011, 11:44 PM
  #48
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Dude, you have to stop making yourself look bad..
both statements are true. Philadelphia addressed their biggest weakness, which more than offset their downgrade up the middle.

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07-05-2011, 12:36 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
both statements are true. Philadelphia addressed their biggest weakness, which more than offset their downgrade up the middle.
Philly had good goaltending from Bobrovsky during the season last year. If you consider Markov simply a marginal improvement over Wiz, than Bryz over Bob is the same.
You also completely disregard the fact they lost 2 of their top 4 scorers, including their best goal scorer. But hey, I'm sure those are just marginal losses because they added Jagr who hasn't played for 3years in the NHL, Voracek that scored 14G, Schenn that played 8games and Simmonds that has 30pts.
Considering the grass is always greener elsewhere, I'm sure you'll point out JVR should have a more productive year as well.

Of course, on our side of the spectrum, MaxPac, DD, Eller and PK won't have better years. Gomez will have another career low year, as well as Gionta and Cammy, and Plek won't crack the 60pt plateau. Our biggest hole was on the top 6, missing a PF type, and we signed Eric Cole but hey, he'll probably get injured for the year before the camp even starts.
We're currently just at about 56M, and with Gorges+White at least left to re-sign, we're going to go over last year's cap, but hey we cut salary!

Both statements are completely and utterly WRONG.
Philly did not get better. At least not on paper. There is a lot of ''if'' for them to have as much success as they did last year. Not to mention, you're also saying NYR-NJ got much better, and they're playing in the same division. So, not only are they a question mark, but most of the other teams in their division also improved.

As for us, we will probably start the season being close to the cap's ceiling as we usually are. 56M which means we're only 3M away from last year's salaries, with Gorges+White, but with 2 roster spot left available, chances are we'll get to the ceiling.
But hey, we didn't re-sign Wiz, you've been on a rampage against management since then. Time for you to get over it.

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07-05-2011, 01:09 AM
  #50
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we decided to cut salary.
stop talking out of your ass

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