So he would be behind Markov, Gorges, PK, Yemelin.
So how Franson compares to Weber, Gill, Spacek, Diaz, Carle?
Let's reformulate: Spacek is a #5 or 6 at best with us. How does Franson compars to Spacek?
it doesnt, one is starting his career (so to speak) while the other is on his last miles...
Their defense was good last year too, probably better than ours for sure. I said it last year too, their defense is mobile and good at moving hte puck whereas ours is slow as **** and was hard to improve. Doesn't change the fact our offense and goaltending make them look like an AHL squad.
last year i would have agreed. but although they might have better defensmen overall, i think our squad has quicker, more transition-oriented d-men - that is, if everything pans out the way it should.
the only two caveats are the spaceman and gill. and both aren't exactly bad at clearing their zone to create offensive rushes. weber, diaz, markov, subban, and perhaps even yemelin (and spacek is supposed to be one as well). that's 5 puck movers right there.
for this reason, i wouldn't be shocked if the habs transition their game to be more puck-possession, offensive-minded team than previous years.
last year i would have agreed. but although they might have better defensmen overall, i think our squad has quicker, more transition-oriented d-men - that is, if everything pans out the way it should.
the only two caveats are the spaceman and gill. and both aren't exactly bad at clearing their zone to create offensive rushes. weber, diaz, markov, subban, and perhaps even yemelin (and spacek is supposed to be one as well). that's 5 puck movers right there.
for this reason, i wouldn't be shocked if the habs transition their game to be more puck-possession, offensive-minded team than previous years.
I think our defense is almost entirely different this year. With Hamrlik gone, spacek relegated to bottom pairing dman, Markov back, Subbans improved play, Yemelin, Gorges healthy and Weber undoubtedly getting more time our defense looks incredibly fast.
Hopefully this crew can transition the puck better and not have our forwards waiting in the neutral zone getting killed.
If Franson is the real deal, could Burke have given a brown envellope in return.
Money can be traded quite easily if need be...
Seems Franson is a year behind PK in AHL.
Not saying he is a stub like PK but I see nice progression.
Preds needs money and Leaf have plenty...
Maybe Brute took a page from Jean Chretien book...
What did Burke said about the hits on the head at the GM conference again?
You know how I rank him...
Sorry for the Brute. I gave Burke to much credit!
He is much lower...
Leafs management team seems much lower than Washington...
And Washington did tank for a decade...
Both Burke and Preds are in survival mode...
Same as Claude Julien last season.
We can see the results (I blame Julien for Chara's hit...).
they're doing fine, get actual info before commenting on other franchise.
Yes... The new messiah in Toronto.
The guy who is going to make a SC winning team.
The miracle in person: Burke.
After all, he did some good moves: Komisarek, Fingers, Kessel, Beauchemin, Giguere, Gustavvson, Kaberle.
Let me see again: I must be missing something...
A year later: Phaneuf... Good trade or not?
The only good deal Burke did to me: Colton Orr (oups! he just renew his enforcer for 4 years)
Let's look at this: 1M per year is not bad... But for 5 minutes per game???
A good enforcer who can only fight against other enforcer... Laraque was way better than him...
Where is Van Ryn?
Would you trade Kessel back for the players given?
To be frank, he won on the Kaberle deal: he traded a player that was at his best in Toronto and gave him to Boston.
He probably never talked to Kaberle about the deal...
Because he is just a player.
So Boston got a player that was not fitting in their system and Toronto lost their best Offense D-men.
Result: he missed the PO by a point....
Good move...
With him in Toronto, I have no worries.
Chiarelli is way better. PG is way better.
Burke runs on hype and may be the worst thing that happened to Toronto since the JF junior!
But Madisson square garden management team is about money not hockey.
They are run by Bay Street not by Hockey fans.
We are so blessed with Molson...
Can anyone see that selling the Habs was not decided by the Molson family?
Is it possible that the family really loves hockey?
And want to be part of the renewal of the Habs tradition?
The real question is: Who besides Montreal and Detroit has owners that really care about hockey and are ready to give it all?
This is what is missing in Toronto.
The day the owners understand and love hockey more than money will be a great day for hockey in Toronto.
Are we there yet?
BG and PG are very humble and Burke is so full of himself that he could fill JM, BG and PG with vanity and still have more than the three of them together...
You see, he has won the cup so he owns the truth.
He likes to give a show, because he owns the truth.
He is the real deal.
Meanwhile, humble people like BG, PG, JM and the whole Habs organization are working together as dolphins do.
Team work is their MOO, Humiity is their motto.
So they don't think they are better... They just try!
So no tanking for the last seven years.
No first round (given away) but still making the PO...
And a SC contender in Montreal.
It all starts with the owners.
We are blessed with Molson...
As far as I know, we traded Grabovski for Pateryn because we needed to ship him somewhere and Toronto did the best offer given the delay.
Maybe Grabovski asked to be traded after being bugged by SK...
At that time it was either Grab or SK...
These things do happen.
Go back to the news at that time, some journalists knows...
And the one who published the story about Grab vs SK was probably fed by someone... inside Habs organization...
Few remember...
At that time, Habs did a choice for the team and did it to the best of their knowledge.
Ask BG: would you trade MG or SK now?
But the Grabovski deal was not done by Burke.
It was probably done by a much better GM than him...
The one that was between JF Junior and Burke.
Probably a real hockey man.
For now, Burke is running on the fumes of this guy.
And still think he is the real deal
With these owners, Toronto is doomed... and Burke is the destroyer.
A real shark...
With these owners, Toronto is doomed... and Burke is the destroyer.
A real shark...
I never understood the average fans hatred for Burke, he's a proven winner as a GM, no question. He was handed an awful team in Toronto. History shows he'll turn the Leafs around, no question.
I never understood the average fans hatred for Burke, he's a proven winner as a GM, no question. He was handed an awful team in Toronto. History shows he'll turn the Leafs around, no question.
I never understood the praise. He's not a bad GM, he's not the best either.
What I really don't understand though, is how fans of Mtl can question management's every single move or move he wasn't in on.
What I want to know is why so called Habs fans were saying Gauthier sucks and needs to be fired because he wasn't doing anything, before July 1st.
I couldn't give two craps about Burke and why our fans hate him (although I'm sure being the GM of Toronto has something to do with it..), but I'm really interested to know why our fans hate our own management so much.
If Franson is the real deal, could Burke have given a brown envellope in return.
Money can be traded quite easily if need be...
Seems Franson is a year behind PK in AHL.
Not saying he is a stub like PK but I see nice progression.
Preds needs money and Leaf have plenty...
Maybe Brute took a page from Jean Chretien book...
What did Burke said about the hits on the head at the GM conference again?
You know how I rank him...
Sorry for the Brute. I gave Burke to much credit!
He is much lower...
Leafs management team seems much lower than Washington...
And Washington did tank for a decade...
Both Burke and Preds are in survival mode...
Same as Claude Julien last season.
We can see the results (I blame Julien for Chara's hit...).
Burke in essence bought Franson for $7 million of Lombardi's remaining contract minus Lebda, so it was a cash transaction. This allowed Nashville to get Bergfors.
If Yemelin is our number thee d-men, we have the best defense of the league!
Bring on PO time!
To me Yemelin = Bieksa younger and can fight (not part of Habs culture... So you fight like Robinson: when needed and you destroy the opponent).
Fighters with no skating hability have no hope on the ice...
Someone as big as them will eventually catch them if they have more skating skills...
I have no idea what to expect from that guy. I've heard the hype but I need to see it first.
If he's as rugged as you're saying then that guy along with Cole will be welcome additions from that standpoint. We really need that kind of player on our roster.
I would have to assume that going after Franson would have meant dealing Gorges or Weber to make room on the right. If I'm honest, I think I would have gotten rid of either one to make room for Franson. Pretty much all the offensive potential of Weber, only a year older, and in a 6'4" package. Would have been nice.
I think this is as simply put as Toronto wanted Franson, inquired, and where absolutely shocked at how cheap he came. Something along the lines of "your interested in Franson, you have to take Lombardi."
The likelihood is IF other teams knew or had the cap space, they would have made this deal too.
Seems to me TORs troubles are burke suffers from the same myopia that many posters here suffer from: All he sees is how big the player is.
I think many of the posters on this board are overrating TOR immensely. Their D is bigger, but the only one that I'd even consider for my team is Schenn. Franson is big and has decent passing abilities, but doesn't seem to have the vision to make plays without the puck. Phaneuf and Komi both care more about making the hit than retrieving the puck and don't play well positionally.
I wouldn't have made this trade, because Franson isn't what the habs need on D. What they need is a large physical shutdown D for the bottom pairing. Someone like Mara, but better if possible. Not a large, soft, offensive Dman. Franson for Gill? Sure. Franson for Gorges? Nope. Franson for Weber? Nope. Gorges is a very effective shutdown D who is slowly adding a bit of offense to his game(Not much but a bit) which outweighs a marginal D with more offensive potential with the rest of the lineup. Weber looks to have much better vision with about the same offensive abilities, so I'd prefer keeping him and seeing what he's got to trading for a shiny new Dman just because he's bigger.
Seems to me TORs troubles are burke suffers from the same myopia that many posters here suffer from: All he sees is how big the player is.
I think many of the posters on this board are overrating TOR immensely. Their D is bigger, but the only one that I'd even consider for my team is Schenn. Franson is big and has decent passing abilities, but doesn't seem to have the vision to make plays without the puck. Phaneuf and Komi both care more about making the hit than retrieving the puck and don't play well positionally.
I wouldn't have made this trade, because Franson isn't what the habs need on D. What they need is a large physical shutdown D for the bottom pairing. Someone like Mara, but better if possible. Not a large, soft, offensive Dman. Franson for Gill? Sure. Franson for Gorges? Nope. Franson for Weber? Nope. Gorges is a very effective shutdown D who is slowly adding a bit of offense to his game(Not much but a bit) which outweighs a marginal D with more offensive potential with the rest of the lineup. Weber looks to have much better vision with about the same offensive abilities, so I'd prefer keeping him and seeing what he's got to trading for a shiny new Dman just because he's bigger.
But let me guess... you're totally on board with that being Weber (that's who it'll be) instead of Franson (Franson plays on the right, btw). And wait... you'd trade Gill for Franson? Doesn't that go exactly against what you just said?? Franson isn't just "shiny and new", btw. Not only is he bigger, he put up more points in a single season in the AHL than Weber's best, AND he actually has more than 10 NHL goals (and 50 NHL points) to his credit. I know Weber is one of those players that people just love for, well, very little reason (shot? AHL points? Swiss underdog?), but it's entirely likely that having a similar ability to be involved in scoring plays coupled with a larger frame will make Franson the bigger contributor in the NHL both short term and long. Heck, he's ALREADY in the NHL contributing more than Weber. If I didn't like Gorges so much and value the work he has put in on the defensive side of things so much, I'd be willing to dump him for Franson as well.
If Price really is the real deal, and we already have Markov, Subban, and Gill around (and Tinordi in the pipeline), exactly how much defense do we have to insulate him with at the expense of fixing the same problem we've had for years: scoring goals?
But let me guess... you're totally on board with that being Weber (that's who it'll be) instead of Franson (Franson plays on the right, btw). And wait... you'd trade Gill for Franson? Doesn't that go exactly against what you just said?? Franson isn't just "shiny and new", btw. Not only is he bigger, he put up more points in a single season in the AHL than Weber's best, AND he actually has more than 10 NHL goals (and 50 NHL points) to his credit. I know Weber is one of those players that people just love for, well, very little reason (shot? AHL points? Swiss underdog?), but it's entirely likely that having a similar ability to be involved in scoring plays coupled with a larger frame will make Franson the bigger contributor in the NHL both short term and long. Heck, he's ALREADY in the NHL contributing more than Weber. If I didn't like Gorges so much and value the work he has put in on the defensive side of things so much, I'd be willing to dump him for Franson as well.
If Price really is the real deal, and we already have Markov, Subban, and Gill around (and Tinordi in the pipeline), exactly how much defense do we have to insulate him with at the expense of fixing the same problem we've had for years: scoring goals?
Weber has potential and showed improbvement while with the Habs... although I agree with you about the comparison
Franson's offensive potential is comparable to Weber's. Franson played 15 min against weak opposition (3rd pairing guy) while Weber only played 8 min.
Weber is 1 year younger and I can see him put up very similar numbers to Franson did last year.
As for the 6'5" of Franson, its all great, but he is soft as butter. Is size is useful like for Hal Gill, reach, but nothing more. Franson does NOT hit, like Gill.
The extra cap hit (Lombardi) was not worth Franson at all. That extra cap hit puts resigning our top RFAs in jeoperdy next year. It would have been the dumbest move ever. In fact, if Lombardi is OK this year, we don't have the cap for him this year
Some people have no vision and no capabilities of managing a cap. And for what, a bigger version of Weber?
Wouldn't a younger, more offensively inclined "gill who can pass" be a pretty good addition, and Even an upgrade over the "regular" gill?
in the context of the rest of the pieces on d and namely his ability to positively influence young guys like PK and gorges (assuming he signs and stays which i think he will), then not necessarily. The comparison to gill stems from the fact both players are big, slow and soft, they end there however given they both have other assets that assist to play in the league.
Gill is a great vet with leadership qualities and clearly the innate ability to connect with younger players and help them with their games and attitudes. He also is an excellent penalty killer and shot blocker, etc etc.
Franson is a good young kid who can make a good pass and is a PP specialist. Case in point, from the thread about the trade in the trade board, a Pred fan with his take on the situation/player:
Quote:
Originally Posted by braindead
Love how people are missing the point from the Preds side. Yes, it's a good trade for the Leafs b/c the Lombardi cash means nothing to them and they got the best player in Franson.
However, Franson is a PP specialist that played protected minutes and couldn't increase his role. Jon Blum stepped out of the minors late last year and looked 5x better than Franson. Josi is already better. Ellis is 10x the PP specialist and can be hidden just as well.
(the post continues but in the context of gill/franson that's the important stuff that is pertinent so i didnt include it but if you feel the need to read it here the's link to the post: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=3...&postcount=750)
Currently, the habs have the following players who can legitimately stake claim to a spot on the PP: andrei markov, PK subban & yannick weber. Additionally its been said that yemelin has a really good shot so he could conceivably take up that 4th spot and if not him then I believe andrei has spent time back there in the past or at least internationally (although that could be wrong) and if necessary others could fill in like spacek, gorges etc (those 2 have spent some time back there in the past, and sure they arent good at it but that's fine in the sense that they'd be further down the depth chart so to speak).
In terms of PK specialists if you will, we have gill and gorges on d, who else is as adept at killing penalties as those two currently on the line up? Assuming you dont want stress/pressure guys like pk and andrei with "double duty" and you dont really think having a rook like yemelin out there is wise, then the bulk of pk duty falls to gorges and gill with help from the likes of spacek, yemelin, markov and pk. I'd say the loss of hamrlik hurts the most in this sense, he was very adept at killing penalties and that loss is going to hurt here unless we pick up another d-man of his ilk.
Really if the choice is between gill and franson, at this point in time without having PK fully developed and without tinordi quite ready yet then i'd take gill as opposed to franson given franson becomes somewhat of a redundant player in our roster with markov, PK and weber available while gill doesnt have the built-in redundancy that franson woud provide.
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