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Burke To Have Contract Discussions Today With MacArthur

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07-05-2011, 09:12 AM
  #51
robr00
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9 mil over 3 years is what i'd give

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07-05-2011, 09:15 AM
  #52
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IMO MacA is a guy we need this year, he stirred the drink on that MGK line...

MacA 2 years - 2.7 - 3.2 per

Bozak 2 years - 1.2 -1.7 per

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07-05-2011, 09:15 AM
  #53
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3 years 7.5 (2.5 per)

1 year 3

His arbitration award last year was not indicative of arbitration hearings. From what I've read his team did not contest in the ruling because they fully expected to walk away so the arbitration awarded based on non-contest.

Like winning nothing.

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Old
07-05-2011, 09:17 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BonMorrison View Post
A lot of you guys are really understating the importance of MacArthur last season.

I'd give him 3.5.
I agree. I was watching a lot of game footage and I saw a ton of great plays from mac as a setup guy. Yes, he had great linemates, but who doesn't excel with great linemates. He brought Kulemin and Grabo into the team and made a killer second line.

I'd give him 3 mil a year for two years.

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07-05-2011, 09:21 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auliewantsisplayoffs View Post
Leino's deal has nothing to do with Macarthur's award in arbitration. Please see the rest of the thread for explanation ...
Yeah UFA's are different.

This is who I see as the best comparable to MacArthur this offseason:

David Krejci, Drafted in 2004
2007–08 Boston Bruins NHL 56 6 21 27
2008–09 Boston Bruins NHL 82 22 51 73
Signed a 3 year 3.75 million/yr deal as an RFA after that season.

Clarke MacArthur, Drafted in 2003
2009-10 Sabres/Thrashers NHL 81 16 19 35
2010-11 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 82 21 41 62


Now Macarthur didn't have the same year as Krejci did in his final RFA season, point totals are similar over the two years, even though Krejci played less games. I wouldn't expect MacArthur to get 3.75 as he is not as good a player as Krejci IMO, and his big RFA season was when he was 2 years older than Krejci, but I think this is a solid comparable. I would expect MacArthur to get in the 3-3.5range. 3.25 over two years would be fine by me.

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07-05-2011, 09:26 AM
  #56
Phion Keneuf
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What if we don't sign MacArthur? Does he just walk for free? Or do we get some sort of compensation

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Old
07-05-2011, 09:40 AM
  #57
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This is the kind of player the Leafs should have coming back. Just dumping him is ridiculous. I see this deal getting done.

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07-05-2011, 09:42 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by robr00 View Post
9 mil over 3 years is what i'd give
I agree.

Its gotta come down to the player taking less per yr, but more guaranteed money, or a one yr deal based on what he gets awarded in arbitration. Then it's up to him to prove he's worth that money next season.

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07-05-2011, 09:43 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by tzinc View Post
This is the kind of player the Leafs should have coming back. Just dumping him is ridiculous. I see this deal getting done.
What's your price tzinc?

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07-05-2011, 09:49 AM
  #60
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I agree with those saying 3/9-9.5m. He was incredibly important last season and we definitely need him again without landing a star #1C

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07-05-2011, 09:50 AM
  #61
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Arbitration gives him a 1 year contract. So I really don't care what he gets there. We have plenty of cap space for this year so even if he gets something stupid like 4.5M, we're still fine.

I'm only worried about his salary if Burke locks him up long term prior to arbitration.

I wouldn't want anything more than 3 years at 3M per. Or perhaps a single year at a slightly higher number (3.5-4M) to give him a chance to show it wasn't a fluke.

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07-05-2011, 09:52 AM
  #62
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I really hope we get him signed for next year. If we're going to have him on a 1 year deal whats the harm in giving him around 4 mil for next season so he can prove himself?

He either earns the money, which is great and we can lock him up long term, or he doesn't, and we let him go or sign him for cheap depending on his production. This would be low-risk high-reward IMO.

Unless Burke has something up his sleeve that will take up more of our cap space for next year we'll be able to afford it anyways.

At the end of next season, we can then re-evaluate Mac's value, as well as Kadri/Colborne's progression and make some decisions as to how much value he has with the team going forward.

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07-05-2011, 09:55 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auliewantsisplayoffs View Post
Leino's deal has nothing to do with Macarthur's award in arbitration. Please see the rest of the thread for explanation ...
I guess you've never heard of comparables? MacArthur's agent has to submit a number for their side from somewhere.

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07-05-2011, 09:57 AM
  #64
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I heard that MacArthur has to file for arbitration by 5:00 PM est today. It's good to hear that there are some talks going on even if it might have been a little obvious.

In my opinion MacArthur's contract should be constructed with term being the main determiner. Something like 2.7-3 million for 3 years or 3.5 for one year.

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Old
07-05-2011, 09:58 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
I guess you've never heard of comparables? MacArthur's agent has to submit a number for their side from somewhere.
(Wondering) Is MacArthur's agent allowed to use UFA's as comparables or stricly other RFA awards?

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07-05-2011, 09:58 AM
  #66
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UFA contract cannot be used as comparables.

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Old
07-05-2011, 09:59 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
I guess you've never heard of comparables? MacArthur's agent has to submit a number for their side from somewhere.
Um, I'm pretty sure only RFA contracts are valid as comparables.

Edit: Yep, here are the evidence lists for arbitration:

Quote:
The evidence that can be used in arbitration cases:
The player's "overall performance" including statistics in all previous seasons.
Injuries, illnesses and the number of games played.
The player's length of service with the team and in the NHL.
The player's "overall contribution" to the team's success or failure.
The player's "special qualities of leadership or public appeal."
The performance and salary of any player alleged to be "comparable" to the player in the dispute.

Evidence that is not admissible:
The salary and performance of a "comparable" player who signed a contract as an unrestricted free agent.
Testimonials, video and media reports.
The financial state of the team.
The salary cap and the state of the team's payroll.

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Old
07-05-2011, 10:01 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topched View Post
Yeah UFA's are different.

This is who I see as the best comparable to MacArthur this offseason:

David Krejci, Drafted in 2004
200708 Boston Bruins NHL 56 6 21 27
200809 Boston Bruins NHL 82 22 51 73
Signed a 3 year 3.75 million/yr deal as an RFA after that season.

Clarke MacArthur, Drafted in 2003
2009-10 Sabres/Thrashers NHL 81 16 19 35
2010-11 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 82 21 41 62


Now Macarthur didn't have the same year as Krejci did in his final RFA season, point totals are similar over the two years, even though Krejci played less games. I wouldn't expect MacArthur to get 3.75 as he is not as good a player as Krejci IMO, and his big RFA season was when he was 2 years older than Krejci, but I think this is a solid comparable. I would expect MacArthur to get in the 3-3.5range. 3.25 over two years would be fine by me.
I think you just made a great case as to why mac should not get as much as krejci.

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Old
07-05-2011, 10:08 AM
  #69
John-Eric Iannicello
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Originally Posted by TheMonster View Post
I really hope we get him signed for next year. If we're going to have him on a 1 year deal whats the harm in giving him around 4 mil for next season so he can prove himself?

He either earns the money, which is great and we can lock him up long term, or he doesn't, and we let him go or sign him for cheap depending on his production. This would be low-risk high-reward IMO.

Unless Burke has something up his sleeve that will take up more of our cap space for next year we'll be able to afford it anyways.

At the end of next season, we can then re-evaluate Mac's value, as well as Kadri/Colborne's progression and make some decisions as to how much value he has with the team going forward.
I think thats the key though.

What harm is there?

I think the harm is that Burke looks like someone who can be walked on by other RFAs. I don't think Burke wants to look desperate, and the moment he accepts any dollar amount that he's not exactly comfortable with, that opens up other RFAs to negotiate at that comparable salary.

I think as a fan we just see play on ice, and cap figures. But if we accept MacArthur at a 1 year deal at 4m, what kinds of numbers are other players like Grabovksi going to push for as UFAs? Kessel money? More?

The reason why Burke talks about walking away from salary that is too high is because he doesn't want to set a precedent IMO. If MacArthur does walk, I'm guessing there's a back-up plan in place.

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Old
07-05-2011, 10:10 AM
  #70
topched
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
I think you just made a great case as to why mac should not get as much as krejci.
Of course.

But thats my point. The numbers are there, they are comparable but not quite the same. For the guys out there saying MacArthur should get 4mill + or Leino/Upshall money, they should look at that and give theres head a shake

Clarke will likely get under the 3.75 that Krejci fetched, and more realistically in and around 3.25

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Old
07-05-2011, 10:11 AM
  #71
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2 years, 2.5 per

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Old
07-05-2011, 10:12 AM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John-Eric Iannicello View Post
I think thats the key though.

What harm is there?

I think the harm is that Burke looks like someone who can be walked on by other RFAs. I don't think Burke wants to look desperate, and the moment he accepts any dollar amount that he's not exactly comfortable with, that opens up other RFAs to negotiate at that comparable salary.

I think as a fan we just see play on ice, and cap figures. But if we accept MacArthur at a 1 year deal at 4m, what kinds of numbers are other players like Grabovksi going to push for as UFAs? Kessel money? More?

The reason why Burke talks about walking away from salary that is too high is because he doesn't want to set a precedent IMO. If MacArthur does walk, I'm guessing there's a back-up plan in place.
If MacA is awared 4mil+ and Kulemin keeps improving I don't look forward to that arbitration.

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07-05-2011, 10:15 AM
  #73
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Why do some of you keep stating that he shouldn't earn more than Kulemin and Grabovski? Both of them signed deals after posting lesser production when the cap ceiling was lower.

Grabo and Kulemin have no bearing as to what MacArthur is worth in 2011. If you want apples to apples, look at what RFAs have been getting with similar production or compare previous ones as they are relative to the salary cap of that period.

If the cap goes up by 5million, everyone's salary scales accordingly. It doesn't mean you pay less to individual players and get more of them.

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Old
07-05-2011, 10:15 AM
  #74
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Kulemin will get like a 4 year 16-18M deal if he scores around the same points again.

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Old
07-05-2011, 10:17 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Delayed Offside View Post
2 years, 2.5 per
This. Short term - show us what you can do over 3 year span, then you get the big bump.

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