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Burke To Have Contract Discussions Today With MacArthur

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07-05-2011, 10:56 AM
  #101
Epictetus
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3.5 is good with me, most here agree it wasn't a fluke season so it wont be overpayment based on his accounted production.

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07-05-2011, 10:58 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
I guess you've never heard of comparables? MacArthur's agent has to submit a number for their side from somewhere.
Wow ... Just wow. I actually know all about 'comparables', I just also know that they have to be RFAs when signed to be admissible in the arbitration process. Please go look up the CBA rules before antagonizing me. I even posted about the rule earlier in the thread which I tried to draw your attention to ...

Anyway I hope his agent submits 'comparables' that actually have bearing on the situation, or he should be looking for different representation.

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07-05-2011, 11:00 AM
  #103
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3.5 is good with me, most here agree it wasn't a fluke season so it wont be overpayment based on his accounted production.
That would put him above Kulemin, Grabo, Armstrong and along the lines of what Gagne just signed for in LA. All for one 21 goal season? I may go 1 year, but not multiple years on this.

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07-05-2011, 11:02 AM
  #104
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At the very least even if he doesn't become a consistent 60 point player, 40-50 points a year for a gritty player who has chemistry with the team is worth at least 3 million. 3 years - 9 million is fine. or two years 7 million.

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07-05-2011, 11:06 AM
  #105
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At the very least even if he doesn't become a consistent 60 point player, 40-50 points a year for a gritty player who has chemistry with the team is worth at least 3 million. 3 years - 9 million is fine. or two years 7 million.
I would rather do 2 years, but 3 for 9 is my max. Anymore and we are going to have an even harder time signing Kulemin in 12-13 when he is a RFA, and we Leafs fans know this guy is the best Leafs fwd bar none, he is the single most important player to lock up next year.

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07-05-2011, 11:06 AM
  #106
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Like you guys I think, he should sign 3 millionish for one year but if he goes to arbitration.. he got 2.1 million after scoring 9 points last year, could you imagine what he gets after a 62 point season? I'm guessing it'll be 4-4.5 Million.

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07-05-2011, 11:09 AM
  #107
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What's with Mac and arbitration? Is his agent overly greedy or what?

I remember an interview with Mac and him saying he'd take a paycut to stay in Toronto, I guess agents don't like that. I know it's their jobs, just saying. Atlanta didn't bite and ended up signing for cheap in toronto, what if toronto doesn't bite? who knows how much anyone will give him. i know he's had a great year, but if i were him, i'd take grabo/kulemin money and run. unless burke is offering him less, which i don't think that's the case.

sign the paper Mac!!

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07-05-2011, 11:11 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by crediblepest View Post
Like you guys I think, he should sign 3 millionish for one year but if he goes to arbitration.. he got 2.1 million after scoring 9 points last year, could you imagine what he gets after a 62 point season? I'm guessing it'll be 4-4.5 Million.
It's great he got 62 pts but goals are more valuable, Kessel scored 32 goals, 64 pts and I wouldn't compare him to Mac.

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07-05-2011, 11:22 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by crediblepest View Post
Like you guys I think, he should sign 3 millionish for one year but if he goes to arbitration.. he got 2.1 million after scoring 9 points last year, could you imagine what he gets after a 62 point season? I'm guessing it'll be 4-4.5 Million.
If I am not mistaken, NHL arbitration does not decide a players contract based on value of his season directly.

What happens is both sides bring a contract offer to the table and based on a bunch of factors, the arbitrator picks which contract is most deserving.

Not sure the type of contract Mac is bringing to the table but one would have to think his camp would know the limits of what the Leafs are willing to match.

I have a feeling that salary is not the question here but term

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07-05-2011, 11:23 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
That would put him above Kulemin, Grabo, Armstrong and along the lines of what Gagne just signed for in LA. All for one 21 goal season? I may go 1 year, but not multiple years on this.
His value is not with his goals.

I'd go two years.

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07-05-2011, 11:24 AM
  #111
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It's great he got 62 pts but goals are more valuable, Kessel scored 32 goals, 64 pts and I wouldn't compare him to Mac.
How are goals more valuable?

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07-05-2011, 11:25 AM
  #112
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3.25M on a 2 year contract with team option for 3rd year at 3.75
Option years are prohibited by the CBA.

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07-05-2011, 11:26 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by LeeIs View Post
What's with Mac and arbitration? Is his agent overly greedy or what?

I remember an interview with Mac and him saying he'd take a paycut to stay in Toronto, I guess agents don't like that. I know it's their jobs, just saying. Atlanta didn't bite and ended up signing for cheap in toronto, what if toronto doesn't bite? who knows how much anyone will give him. i know he's had a great year, but if i were him, i'd take grabo/kulemin money and run. unless burke is offering him less, which i don't think that's the case.

sign the paper Mac!!
My guess is that it's less to do with the money. Mac has really enjoyed his experience in Toronto and has gone on record saying that he wants to stay here for 10 years if they'd let him. He's coming off of a great season, he's got linemates he has great chemistry with and he loves the team and the city. Toronto has afforded him the opportunity to really break out and prove people wrong about what he can accomplish in this league, but at the same time, as a player who's never had a real role before now and has never had a season like the one before now, he probably wants to use this as a mean to negotiate some stability for himself with a longer contract. Even if it about the money, I can't fault players for that, especially players like Mac who has career numbers that would suggest that he's not going to have a line outside of his door of bidders and the ones that do show up aren't going to be offering a ton of money or long terms.

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07-05-2011, 11:26 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Auliewantsisplayoffs View Post
Wow ... Just wow. I actually know all about 'comparables', I just also know that they have to be RFAs when signed to be admissible in the arbitration process. Please go look up the CBA rules before antagonizing me. I even posted about the rule earlier in the thread which I tried to draw your attention to ...

Anyway I hope his agent submits 'comparables' that actually have bearing on the situation, or he should be looking for different representation.
who said anything about "submitting"?

They have to come up with their number to submit to the arbitrator from somewhere, that's all.

Unbunch those panties.

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07-05-2011, 11:26 AM
  #115
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What do you guys think is a fair $$/term for Mac?

3.75 x 3?
Before UFA feakshow started i was saying 3yr 8mil, but now.......your idea seems more realistic.

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07-05-2011, 11:28 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
That would put him above Kulemin, Grabo, Armstrong and along the lines of what Gagne just signed for in LA. All for one 21 goal season? I may go 1 year, but not multiple years on this.
Well, he wouldn't be above Kulemin and Grabo for long...

*worryingly goes to check capgeek for the season after this one*

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07-05-2011, 11:28 AM
  #117
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How are goals more valuable?
When Kessel scored 30 last year, for his 3rd straight 30+ goal year, someone mentioned I think he was only 1 of 7(maybe less but let's say 7 off the top of my head) current NHL players to do this. Consistent 30 goal scorers are a rare breed.

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07-05-2011, 11:30 AM
  #118
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If I am not mistaken, NHL arbitration does not decide a players contract based on value of his season directly.

What happens is both sides bring a contract offer to the table and based on a bunch of factors, the arbitrator picks which contract is most deserving.

Not sure the type of contract Mac is bringing to the table but one would have to think his camp would know the limits of what the Leafs are willing to match.

I have a feeling that salary is not the question here but term
I'm curious about salary evaluation as well. I hope they don't use the current FA signings in their decisions. Free agency is a specific event where supply and demand affect the price of the contract. As the player under arbitratrion is RFA, they obviously couldn't use any overpayments that come to UFAs as a comparable.

Am I wrong?

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07-05-2011, 11:30 AM
  #119
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When Kessel scored 30 last year, for his 3rd straight 30+ goal year, someone mentioned I think he was only 1 of 7(maybe less but let's say 7 off the top of my head) current NHL players to do this. Consistent 30 goal scorers are a rare breed.
To underline this point, a consistent goal scorer is what we spent most of Sundin's career looking for, and arguably never found.

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07-05-2011, 11:30 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
They have to come up with their number to submit to the arbitrator from somewhere, that's all.
Somewhere that isn't a UFA contract.

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07-05-2011, 11:31 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by crediblepest View Post
Like you guys I think, he should sign 3 millionish for one year but if he goes to arbitration.. he got 2.1 million after scoring 9 points last year, could you imagine what he gets after a 62 point season? I'm guessing it'll be 4-4.5 Million.
First. He didn't score 9 points, he scored 35. He split the season between two teams.
Secondly: Atlanta put in no counter offer - this means the arbitrator gave him whatever he asked for.

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07-05-2011, 11:32 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by mpolo View Post
I'm curious about salary evaluation as well. I hope they don't use the current FA signings in their decisions. Free agency is a specific event where supply and demand affect the price of the contract. As the player under arbitratrion is RFA, they obviously couldn't use any overpayments that come to UFAs as a comparable.

Am I wrong?
UFA contracts are not considered when making RFA arbitrary decisions.

If Mac's camp tries to use UFA signings to bolster their contract case, they will basically be shooting themselves in the foot.

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07-05-2011, 11:33 AM
  #123
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Somewhere that isn't a UFA contract.
They can use whatever they want internally.

I never said they would say to the arbitrator "well, Leino got this much, so...".

Why do you suppose Burke already believes the award will be large?

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07-05-2011, 11:37 AM
  #124
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My guess is that it's less to do with the money. Mac has really enjoyed his experience in Toronto and has gone on record saying that he wants to stay here for 10 years if they'd let him. He's coming off of a great season, he's got linemates he has great chemistry with and he loves the team and the city. Toronto has afforded him the opportunity to really break out and prove people wrong about what he can accomplish in this league, but at the same time, as a player who's never had a real role before now and has never had a season like the one before now, he probably wants to use this as a mean to negotiate some stability for himself with a longer contract. Even if it about the money, I can't fault players for that, especially players like Mac who has career numbers that would suggest that he's not going to have a line outside of his door of bidders and the ones that do show up aren't going to be offering a ton of money or long terms.
I see your point. but i think it is the money rather than the term. i don't think burke hold out on a longer term say 5 years, if infact Mac is taking a reasonable amount of money, not even the 'paycut' he said he was open to. with the paycut. i don't see a defence on burke's part to refuse a long term deal. mac has the potential to even improve on his 60+ points.

that's why i really think it might be the cap hit rather than the term for mac. or maybe it's even both, he wants a big chunk long term. we'll probably never know though. that's what sucks about this!

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07-05-2011, 11:39 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
They can use whatever they want internally.

I never said they would say to the arbitrator "well, Leino got this much, so...".

Why do you suppose Burke already believes the award will be large?
No they can't.

An SPC signed by a UFA is inadmissable as evidence and cannot be used by the arbitrator when awarding a contract.

It's in the CBA:

(iii) The following categories of evidence are inadmissible and shall not be considered by the Arbitrator:

(1) Any contract the term of which began when the player party to such contract was not a Group II Player;

EDIT: Sorry, misread your post, but what good does comparing yourself to a UFA contract internally do?

It will have no effect on the arbitration


Last edited by Deebo: 07-05-2011 at 11:46 AM.
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