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07-05-2011, 07:46 AM
  #101
GAGLine
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The only way it would be possible for us to obtain Stamkos would be via trade. Offer sheet won't work because we don't have the cap space. And in a trade, Gabby++ would have to go the other way to make the salaries work.

In short, it isn't happening.

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07-05-2011, 07:49 AM
  #102
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Kypreos tweeted this morning, no offer sheet has been sent to Stamkos and he and the Lightning are getting closer. Current offer is $37M x 5 years. He said "Formal announcement is looming."

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07-05-2011, 10:24 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
You are. An in force contract cannot be adjusted...other than to be bought out.
Thanks.

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07-05-2011, 10:25 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by TheZherdev View Post
Extensions can be negotiated, however it will simply be a contract that comes into affect only when the current one runs out. This doesn't help with the current situation.
Thanks for the detail.

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07-05-2011, 10:27 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
The only way it would be possible for us to obtain Stamkos would be via trade. Offer sheet won't work because we don't have the cap space. And in a trade, Gabby++ would have to go the other way to make the salaries work.

In short, it isn't happening.
Have you even looked at the numbers? Basically you lose Wolski and you're nearly there. I'm not saying we will offer sheet him, but if we wanted to we could.

FORWARDS
Brandon Dubinsky ($4.000m) / Steven Stamkos ($10.000m) / Marian Gaborik ($7.500m)
Ruslan Fedotenko ($1.400m) / Brad Richards ($6.666m) / Ryan Callahan ($4.000m)
Carl Hagelin ($0.662m) / Artem Anisimov ($1.900m) / Derek Stepan ($0.875m)
Michael Rupp ($1.500m) / Brian Boyle ($1.000m) / Brandon Prust ($0.800m)

DEFENSEMEN
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Daniel Girardi ($3.325m)
Ryan McDonagh ($1.300m) / Mike Sauer ($1.000m)
Tim Erixon ($1.750m) / Michael Del Zotto ($1.087m)

GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m) / Martin Biron ($0.875m)

BUYOUTS: Chris Drury ($3.716m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,208,334; BONUSES: $1,487,500
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $91,666

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07-05-2011, 10:40 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
Have you even looked at the numbers? Basically you lose Wolski and you're nearly there. I'm not saying we will offer sheet him, but if we wanted to we could.

FORWARDS
Brandon Dubinsky ($4.000m) / Steven Stamkos ($10.000m) / Marian Gaborik ($7.500m)
Ruslan Fedotenko ($1.400m) / Brad Richards ($6.666m) / Ryan Callahan ($4.000m)
Carl Hagelin ($0.662m) / Artem Anisimov ($1.900m) / Derek Stepan ($0.875m)
Michael Rupp ($1.500m) / Brian Boyle ($1.000m) / Brandon Prust ($0.800m)

DEFENSEMEN
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Daniel Girardi ($3.325m)
Ryan McDonagh ($1.300m) / Mike Sauer ($1.000m)
Tim Erixon ($1.750m) / Michael Del Zotto ($1.087m)

GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m) / Martin Biron ($0.875m)

BUYOUTS: Chris Drury ($3.716m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,208,334; BONUSES: $1,487,500
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $91,666
My two problems with this.

1) Stop putting Hagelin in the starting line up. He hasn't earned anything. He was a good college player. Let him at least score a few goals in the A before we put him on the third line of the big club.

2) The defense would be terrible. Aside of Staal and Girardi you are looking at a combined 2.5 years of NHL experience in your bottom four.

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07-05-2011, 10:55 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
Have you even looked at the numbers? Basically you lose Wolski and you're nearly there. I'm not saying we will offer sheet him, but if we wanted to we could.

FORWARDS
Brandon Dubinsky ($4.000m) / Steven Stamkos ($10.000m) / Marian Gaborik ($7.500m)
Ruslan Fedotenko ($1.400m) / Brad Richards ($6.666m) / Ryan Callahan ($4.000m)
Carl Hagelin ($0.662m) / Artem Anisimov ($1.900m) / Derek Stepan ($0.875m)
Michael Rupp ($1.500m) / Brian Boyle ($1.000m) / Brandon Prust ($0.800m)

DEFENSEMEN
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Daniel Girardi ($3.325m)
Ryan McDonagh ($1.300m) / Mike Sauer ($1.000m)
Tim Erixon ($1.750m) / Michael Del Zotto ($1.087m)

GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m) / Martin Biron ($0.875m)

BUYOUTS: Chris Drury ($3.716m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,208,334; BONUSES: $1,487,500
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $91,666
Yeah, I have looked at the numbers. Have you? Lol.

1) Boyle and Sauer are both arbitration eligible. They will both get more than 1 mil.
2) How did you manage to get rid of Wolski, Avery and Christensen without any cap hit at all?
3) Hagelin is no lock to make the team and shouldn't be there just because he's cheap.
4) This is a 20 man roster, which means no spares, and no cap space for injury callups.
5) You are completely ignoring the summer cap.

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07-05-2011, 11:19 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by dtrap View Post
My two problems with this.

1) Stop putting Hagelin in the starting line up. He hasn't earned anything. He was a good college player. Let him at least score a few goals in the A before we put him on the third line of the big club.

2) The defense would be terrible. Aside of Staal and Girardi you are looking at a combined 2.5 years of NHL experience in your bottom four.
1)hagelin is being inserted in that scenario because his salary is superlow and he was trying to fit stamkos with a MONSTER salary. you can't make the #s work with mza making $1.75 mil in that spot.

2)in case you missed the memo or haven't been paying attention, that WILL be our blueline next year unless erixon or del zotto completely crap the bed in camp. that has NOTHING to do with taking lower salaries. that WILL be the top 6 with 99% certainty imo.

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07-05-2011, 11:21 AM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtrap View Post
My two problems with this.

1) Stop putting Hagelin in the starting line up. He hasn't earned anything. He was a good college player. Let him at least score a few goals in the A before we put him on the third line of the big club.
Hagelin may or may not make the team. But there is a chance he makes it. If he doesn't you can put a guy like MZA in there who also costs under 1M.

Quote:
2) The defense would be terrible. Aside of Staal and Girardi you are looking at a combined 2.5 years of NHL experience in your bottom four.
The defense would not be terrible. Staal/Girardi/McDonagh/Sauer were fine last season and should all be better this year. Erixon has been playing against men for a couple years now and arguably has as much experience as McDonagh/Sauer, albeit at a lesser league. The team expects him to make the roster out of camp, and from all accounts he should step right in and fill a 3rd line spot from day 1. The wild card is the #6 dman, and while it sure would be nice if MDZ could earn it, that remains to be seen. If not, a guy like Eminger could be brought back, also for 1M.

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07-05-2011, 11:23 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
Have you even looked at the numbers? Basically you lose Wolski and you're nearly there. I'm not saying we will offer sheet him, but if we wanted to we could.

FORWARDS
Brandon Dubinsky ($4.000m) / Steven Stamkos ($10.000m) / Marian Gaborik ($7.500m)
Ruslan Fedotenko ($1.400m) / Brad Richards ($6.666m) / Ryan Callahan ($4.000m)
Carl Hagelin ($0.662m) / Artem Anisimov ($1.900m) / Derek Stepan ($0.875m)
Michael Rupp ($1.500m) / Brian Boyle ($1.000m) / Brandon Prust ($0.800m)

DEFENSEMEN
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Daniel Girardi ($3.325m)
Ryan McDonagh ($1.300m) / Mike Sauer ($1.000m)
Tim Erixon ($1.750m)/ Michael Del Zotto ($1.087m)

GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m) / Martin Biron ($0.875m)

BUYOUTS: Chris Drury ($3.716m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,208,334; BONUSES: $1,487,500
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $91,666
Can Hagelin, Del Zotto and Erixon earn their spots before we pencil them in the lineup please please? I'm excited about the kids too, but they haven't made the team.

Also you leave the team absolutely NO cap flexibility. What if we want to add a puckmoving defenseman (which I think we really need) or another scoring left winger (which we need as well).

On top of the fact if we poach Stamkos, no team will want to deal with us either because Offer Sheets are looked down upon by other GM's.

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07-05-2011, 11:26 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by SomebodySaveKreider View Post
Can Hagelin, Del Zotto and Erixon earn their spots before we pencil them in the lineup please please? I'm excited about the kids too, but they haven't made the team.
the other options for those final 2 spots at the moment are valentenko or kundratek. so anyway you slice it was are looking at 2 rookies, penciled in or not. there literally are no veteran options to even consider in those spots at the moment.

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07-05-2011, 11:27 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SomebodySaveKreider View Post
Can Hagelin, Del Zotto and Erixon earn their spots before we pencil them in the lineup please please? I'm excited about the kids too, but they haven't made the team.

Also you leave the team absolutely NO cap flexibility. What if we want to add a puckmoving defenseman (which I think we really need) or another scoring left winger (which we need as well).

On top of the fact if we poach Stamkos, no team will want to deal with us either because Offer Sheets are looked down upon by other GM's.
Replace Hagelin with MZA, and MDZ with Eminger. The cap hit is nearly identical. Erixon will make the team. Yes we would have to move some salary, but the point is IF you are bringing in Stamkos on an offer sheet you don't worry about losing a couple bottom 6 guys to get it done.

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07-05-2011, 11:29 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by SomebodySaveKreider View Post
Can Hagelin, Del Zotto and Erixon earn their spots before we pencil them in the lineup please please? I'm excited about the kids too, but they haven't made the team.

Also you leave the team absolutely NO cap flexibility. What if we want to add a puckmoving defenseman (which I think we really need) or another scoring left winger (which we need as well).

On top of the fact if we poach Stamkos, no team will want to deal with us either because Offer Sheets are looked down upon by other GM's.
i dont understand why people get so upset when rookies are penciled in. If somebody is proposing a lineup based on what they think will happen, that may include rookies. And in the case of the ones you mentioned, it's common knowledge that they have a solid chance of making it. Guaranteed? No. But pretending they don't exist is worse than prematurely coronating them to me.

And otherwise, has this thread run its course? A stamkos offer sheet was NEVER a real possibility for any team, let alone the Rangers.

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07-05-2011, 11:35 AM
  #114
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i dont understand why people get so upset when rookies are penciled in. If somebody is proposing a lineup based on what they think will happen, that may include rookies. And in the case of the ones you mentioned, it's common knowledge that they have a solid chance of making it. Guaranteed? No. But pretending they don't exist is worse than prematurely coronating them to me.

And otherwise, has this thread run its course? A stamkos offer sheet was NEVER a real possibility for any team, let alone the Rangers.
Perhaps they are close to a deal...I've seen reports indicating as much. But the terms appear to be the same as reported several days ago..5 years 37.5M. That seems a bit odd to me.

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07-05-2011, 11:47 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by allstar3970 View Post
i dont understand why people get so upset when rookies are penciled in. If somebody is proposing a lineup based on what they think will happen, that may include rookies. And in the case of the ones you mentioned, it's common knowledge that they have a solid chance of making it. Guaranteed? No. But pretending they don't exist is worse than prematurely coronating them to me.

And otherwise, has this thread run its course? A stamkos offer sheet was NEVER a real possibility for any team, let alone the Rangers.
Its not pretending they don't exist, its the idea that they have to EARN their spot. The kids we've had come up that we all love so much earned their spot on the big club. And that wasn't even the main point of why I posted what I did.

I posted what I did was because of the cap space left. Depth means something in this league, and if you sign Stamkos to that deal, you can't add anything! We're all so excited about adding Brad Richards and the fact that this team is starting to finally to turn the corner into possible cup contention, but we have to stay sane.

The right thing to do is to add the pieces that we don't have, namely a Top 6 left winger and a Puck moving defenseman.

Its not even worth arguing anyways. Stamkos is gonna resign with Tampa.

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07-05-2011, 11:58 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
Perhaps they are close to a deal...I've seen reports indicating as much. But the terms appear to be the same as reported several days ago..5 years 37.5M. That seems a bit odd to me.
They haven't made a deal yet yes. However, Stamkos has given no indication that he would even consider signing with another team, despite the negotiation dragging on a bit. Remember he actually has to sign the offer sheet and want to play for the team signing him, the way some talk about it you would think it's some kind of automatic waiver claim.

Adding in the fact that Tampa would match anything, and that offer sheets happen about .01% as often as people seem to think, it's fair to say this thread and all other Stamkos offer sheet threads on HF are wastes of time and false hope.

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07-05-2011, 12:00 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by SomebodySaveKreider View Post
Its not pretending they don't exist, its the idea that they have to EARN their spot. The kids we've had come up that we all love so much earned their spot on the big club. And that wasn't even the main point of why I posted what I did.

I posted what I did was because of the cap space left. Depth means something in this league, and if you sign Stamkos to that deal, you can't add anything! We're all so excited about adding Brad Richards and the fact that this team is starting to finally to turn the corner into possible cup contention, but we have to stay sane.

The right thing to do is to add the pieces that we don't have, namely a Top 6 left winger and a Puck moving defenseman.

Its not even worth arguing anyways. Stamkos is gonna resign with Tampa.
I do have to agree with you on cap flexibility issue with broadwayblue's proposal. No team can afford to leave only $90K in cap space to start the season, simply because you need a cushion to bring players up and down from Hartford due to injury/other circumstances.

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07-05-2011, 12:11 PM
  #118
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Could New Stamkos Deal Eclipse 9 mill Per Year??

http://nhlhotstove.com/could-new-sta...e-9-millionyr/

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07-05-2011, 01:35 PM
  #119
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Could New Stamkos Deal Eclipse 9 mill Per Year??

http://nhlhotstove.com/could-new-sta...e-9-millionyr/
maybe Stamkos presses issue, takes $9.5m+ per for only 2 years.
Anybody think that would be good move instead of more years less per w/TBL?

He keeps himself in control of his increasing options this way, he's good as long as he doesn't get major injury...

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07-05-2011, 01:45 PM
  #120
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I figure TB offers a deal that expires 1 yr before UnRestricted FA or Longer Deal with Movement Clause. They want to make sure they get something for him down the road.


Last edited by RidinwitdaKING: 07-05-2011 at 02:16 PM. Reason: meant unrestricted
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07-06-2011, 11:06 AM
  #121
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I figure TB offers a deal that expires 1 yr before UnRestricted FA or Longer Deal with Movement Clause. They want to make sure they get something for him down the road.
Agreed, that is what they want alternative to cheap long term deal.
But can he force them to offer him a minimum deal so he is then UFA?
Is there a one year minimum he can effectively get just by holding out?
{Assuming 1 yr in his case = next step to UFA}.

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07-07-2011, 10:00 AM
  #122
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...history says Stamkos is probably not going anywhere. The combined cost in money, salary cap space, draft picks and dirty glances from other GMs in the league make most offer sheets highly unattractive to front offices.

If that's the case, why hasn't Stamkos signed?

Essentially because the music is still playing in this dance.

The threshold for the four first-round draft picks as compensation is a deal that exceeds $7.8 million annually. And that is probably one reason Yzerman's offer was supposedly in the $7.5 million range; he logically assumed no one would be thrilled about going higher than $7.8 million on an offer sheet.

Nevertheless, Stamkos and his agent figured their best chance for leverage was to hit the free agent market and find some desperate team willing to go a little higher.

If he could find that stalking horse, Stamkos wouldn't even have to sign the offer sheet. Just waving a $9 million offer around would force Tampa Bay's hand.

But that apparently has not happened yet. And so we wait.

This doesn't make Stamkos is greedy, and it doesn't make Lightning owner Jeff Vinik cheap. It makes them human.

In the end, they will come to terms, and everyone will be happy.


http://www.tampabay.com/sports/hocke...tamkos/1179041

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07-08-2011, 11:09 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
...history says Stamkos is probably not going anywhere. The combined cost in money, salary cap space, draft picks and dirty glances from other GMs in the league make most offer sheets highly unattractive to front offices.

If that's the case, why hasn't Stamkos signed?

Essentially because the music is still playing in this dance.

The threshold for the four first-round draft picks as compensation is a deal that exceeds $7.8 million annually. And that is probably one reason Yzerman's offer was supposedly in the $7.5 million range; he logically assumed no one would be thrilled about going higher than $7.8 million on an offer sheet.

Nevertheless, Stamkos and his agent figured their best chance for leverage was to hit the free agent market and find some desperate team willing to go a little higher.

If he could find that stalking horse, Stamkos wouldn't even have to sign the offer sheet. Just waving a $9 million offer around would force Tampa Bay's hand.

But that apparently has not happened yet. And so we wait.

This doesn't make Stamkos is greedy, and it doesn't make Lightning owner Jeff Vinik cheap. It makes them human.

In the end, they will come to terms, and everyone will be happy.


http://www.tampabay.com/sports/hocke...tamkos/1179041
well said^.
But at what number(s) do you think TB does not match?
Or do we assume they will match anything, and I mean anything including the max, and deal with the consequences after...?

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07-08-2011, 12:03 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
well said^.
But at what number(s) do you think TB does not match?
Or do we assume they will match anything, and I mean anything including the max, and deal with the consequences after...?
Pretty much, yeah. He's not going to play anywhere but Tampa next season. An offer sheet will never be signed, at best it will be used as leverage in negotiations with Stevie Y.

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07-08-2011, 12:40 PM
  #125
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well said^.
But at what number(s) do you think TB does not match?
Or do we assume they will match anything, and I mean anything including the max, and deal with the consequences after...?
anything North of 9M for more than 5 years

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