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09-12-2005, 11:23 AM
  #1
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Nathan Perrott Signed

According to Bill Watters and the update on LeafsTV, Nathan Perrott has been signed by the Leafs to a two-way deal.

Watters said that he was holding out for a one-way deal but obviously didn't get it.

With the new call-up rules, Perrott would be unlikely to be called up during the season if he doesn't make the team out of camp. So a trade is possible and a whole season with the Marlies is a possibility too.

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09-12-2005, 11:24 AM
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Garbs
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Quote:
a two-way deal.
HA! You lose, Perrott!

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09-12-2005, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbs
HA! You lose, Perrott!

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09-12-2005, 11:27 AM
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All that remains is to pass on Mush, and to trade Belak, and I think we're set.

With the Leafs, you've got Domi (and his inflated salary) up front and Brown available on the blueline. With the Marlies, Perrot up front and Moro on defence. That's more than enough thuggery for this day and age.

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09-12-2005, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio Jones
All that remains is to pass on Mush, and to trade Belak, and I think we're set.

With the Leafs, you've got Domi (and his inflated salary) up front and Brown available on the blueline. With the Marlies, Perrot up front and Moro on defence. That's more than enough thuggery for this day and age.
Quote:
Brown's arrival could mark a change in head coach Pat Quinn's plan to start the versatile Wade Belak on the blueline, a move that would potentially create a seven-man defence of Belak, Brown, Bryan McCabe, Alexander Khavanov, Tomas Kaberle, Aki Berg and Ken Klee.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL...13489-sun.html
Sounds like a Quinn defense to me ..

Looks like Carlo and Staffan are already headed for the Marlies and the camp is only hours old...

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09-12-2005, 11:58 AM
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Carlo is pretty much a lock for the team.

Quinn mentioned one time that Belak might be paired with Pilar in training camp - and at the same time mentioned that Carlo would be paired with Khavanov - and for some reason leaf nation has taken that as him saying that Belak would have a spot ahead of Carlo.

Which doesn't make any sense, as Quinn stated the opposite.

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09-12-2005, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke
Carlo is pretty much a lock for the team.

Quinn mentioned one time that Belak might be paired with Pilar in training camp - and at the same time mentioned that Carlo would be paired with Khavanov - and for some reason leaf nation has taken that as him saying that Belak would have a spot ahead of Carlo.

Which doesn't make any sense, as Quinn stated the opposite.
I think you are being a little over optomistic there ..

If Carlo would be paired with Khavanov ...Then McCabe with Kaberle and Berg with Klee ..

So it would be pretty hard to believe that with tough guys Belak being moved to D .. Brown being signed and Marchment in camp on a tryout .. Since we all know the roles of these 3 players it would be shocking if none of the 3 players being the 6th dman on the team ..

In your post Carlo is guaranteed .. While IMO .. Carlo is the first one to lose out to what is unfolding to this point, unless Berg or Klee is about to be traded to make a spot for Carlo ..

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09-12-2005, 12:15 PM
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zeke
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Quote:
I think you are being a little over optomistic there ..
It's got little to do with being optimistic.

This is what Quinn SAID.

Quote:
So it would be pretty hard to believe that with tough guys Belak being moved to D .. Brown being signed and Marchment in camp on a tryout .. Since we all know the roles of these 3 players it would be shocking if none of the 3 players being the 6th dman on the team ..
It wouldn't be surprising in the least to see Belak once again open up the season in the press box, and for only one of Marchment/Brown to make the team as the 7th defenseman.

Forwards:

1) Sundin
2) Lindros
3) Allison
4) O'Neill
5) Tucker
6) Czerkawski

7) Antropov
8) Stajan
9) Ponikarovsky
10) Domi
11)
12)

13) Kilger
14) Belak

Fight for two spots between S.Thomas, A.Steen, R.Kukumberg, K.Wellwood, C.Wilm, N.Perrott.


Defense:

1) Kaberle
2) McCabe

3) Klee
4) Khavanov

5) Berg
6)

7)

Fight for two spots between Colaiacovo, Marchment, Brown, Kronwall, White, Bell, Harrison.

I'd say that there's no chance in hell that both Marchment and Brown start the year with the big club.

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09-12-2005, 12:19 PM
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I don't understand, Mess. Quinn has said he plans on putting Khavanov and Colaiacovo together at training camp. He also said Belak and Pilar would be his #7/#8 guys. Yet, you completely ignore the first fact, and use the second as some sort of catalyst of proof that Belak will make the defense ahead of Colaiacovo. Is he making the top 6 before Khavanov too?

McCabe - Kaberle
Klee - Khavanov
Berg - Colaiacovo
Brown (Until Pilar's return, and then he is sent down.)

Kronwall will play with the Marlies, Belak will be a forward, and Marchment is not making the team. It's clear as day to me, I don't see why it's causing this much confusion for everyone else.

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09-12-2005, 01:09 PM
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good i like perrott

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09-12-2005, 01:16 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbs
I don't understand, Mess. Quinn has said he plans on putting Khavanov and Colaiacovo together at training camp. He also said Belak and Pilar would be his #7/#8 guys. Yet, you completely ignore the first fact, and use the second as some sort of catalyst of proof that Belak will make the defense ahead of Colaiacovo. Is he making the top 6 before Khavanov too?

McCabe - Kaberle
Klee - Khavanov
Berg - Colaiacovo
Brown (Until Pilar's return, and then he is sent down.)

Kronwall will play with the Marlies, Belak will be TRADED, and Marchment is not making the team. It's clear as day to me, I don't see why it's causing this much confusion for everyone else.
Fixed.

I agree, Garbs - not sure what the mystery is, here. I'd still prefer to see pairings of McCabe/Kaberle, Klee/Cola, Berg/Khavanov, but we'll see. Even when Pilar comes back, I suspect Brown is with the Leafs to stay, depending on his contract $$$/waiver eligibility... in fact, I expect we'll see Pilar with the Marlies for "conditioning", which could last from two games to the rest of the season, depending.

McCabe
Kaberle
Klee
Khavanov
Berg
Colaiacovo
(Pilar)
Brown

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09-12-2005, 01:54 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbs
I don't understand, Mess. Quinn has said he plans on putting Khavanov and Colaiacovo together at training camp. He also said Belak and Pilar would be his #7/#8 guys. Yet, you completely ignore the first fact, and use the second as some sort of catalyst of proof that Belak will make the defense ahead of Colaiacovo. Is he making the top 6 before Khavanov too?

McCabe - Kaberle
Klee - Khavanov
Berg - Colaiacovo
Brown (Until Pilar's return, and then he is sent down.)

Kronwall will play with the Marlies, Belak will be a forward, and Marchment is not making the team. It's clear as day to me, I don't see why it's causing this much confusion for everyone else.
Why does exhibition experiments mean so much ?? Who knows Welly may centre Sundin and Lindros as well in a exhibition game.. That does not really mean final roster..

I also see the Leafs only carrying 22 players on the team for cost and cap reasons .. That means that Belak would make one extra on given nights as that covers both D and F at the same time . .the other player will be a true extra forward either Perrott, Kilger or Wilm ..

So that effects my Defense final prediction ..

Also I dont think you guys are putting enough thought into natural positions .. Klee and Brown & Belak are the only RD as they shoot right .. All rest are natural LD and shoot left .. Playing out of positon on the PP makes sense as the dman switch to increase shooting lanes towards the middle of the ice but eliminates point shots from the boards as a result ..

However on defense it is much easier to play the puck on your forehand verses backhand .. If I am an opposing coach I would simply play the puck into the left hand corner on the forecheck and make the left shooting dman play the puck on his backhand to get the puck out along the boards .. Off the glass and out is a real tough play in that position. Complicated further that the new rules now that award a penalty if a player shoots the puck in the crowd without hitting the glass, which will force coaches to consider positions even more now then ever before.

However natually/instictively the Dman is going to want to play the puck behind his net to his defense partner on his forehand . Good coaches can easily exploit that weakness of players playing out of position and create pressure and turnovers on a dump and chase plan if you can influence the outcome of a play and the direction the puck is going to go ..

That is why Quinn often paired Kaberle(LD) with Klee(RD) or Berg(LD) with Klee(RD) as a pair. McCabe needed to play out of position as he plays the right side with Kabs or Leetch and you see at times how that puts McCabe at a disadvantage both checking and puck moving and loves to assume his natural LD on the PP.. for point shot purposes ..

So that makes it natual to expect that ..

Kaberle (LD) - McCabe (LD) (He ends up switching to the right out of necessity)
Khavanov (LD) - Klee (RD)
Berg (LD) or Brown (RD)/Belak (RD) /Pilar* on IR (RD)

* Reason Belak is considered a dman because he shoots right

I highly doubt Carlo (LD) a rookie will be asked to make the defense out of position .. Coaches put thought into natural positions and if people have played the game you will know how flipping can effect you adversely.


Last edited by Mess: 09-12-2005 at 02:55 PM.
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09-12-2005, 02:12 PM
  #13
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McCabe has always been a RD. He has briefly moved to LD on a couple of occasions with the leafs, but the move has never been good for him. he's much more comfortable on the right side.

Natural LD: Kaberle, Colaiacovo, Berg

Natural RD: McCabe, Klee

Not sure: Khavanov


Last edited by zeke: 09-12-2005 at 02:23 PM.
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09-12-2005, 02:35 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke
McCabe has always been a RD. He has briefly moved to LD on a couple of occasions with the leafs, but the move has never been good for him. he's much more comfortable on the right side.

Natural LD: Kaberle, Colaiacovo, Berg

Natural RD: McCabe, Klee

Not sure: Khavanov
McCabe shoots left .. he plays on the right side because of the abundace of left hand shots .. but you have seen the playoff softball passes up the middle causing turnovers because he is playing on the off side and his forhand forces the play up the middle rather then the safe play along the boards .. Hitchcock simply sends the winger in along the boards and forces McCabe or bring the puck up the middle by design to get it out or make cross ice passes to his partner. The results and mistakes made as a result of this have been obvious ..

Khavanov is also a left shot LD .. That really means that Carlo has to beat out Kaberle, Khavanov or Berg on LD to make the team and not force a vet to play his opposite defense position .. The signing of Khavanov really put a crimp into Carlo making the team .. Now it vitually means that if he impresses that Berg needs to be traded to make a LD spot for him .. Berg at over a mil will not be in the pressbox . .


Last edited by Mess: 09-12-2005 at 02:59 PM.
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09-12-2005, 02:37 PM
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No.

McCabe is a right side defender, always has been.

He was moved over to play the left side on occasion with the leafs (briefly with Lumme and with Pilar), but it was never a good fit.

it's why he never played with Svehla, and why he's been a good fit with both leetch and kaberle.


Last edited by zeke: 09-12-2005 at 02:42 PM.
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09-12-2005, 02:44 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke
No.

McCabe is a right side defender, always has been.

He was moved over to play the left side on occasion with the leafs (briefly with Lumme and with Pilar), but it was never a good fit.
Does not change the fact that he shoots left and has to make key plays on his backhand on his side boards..

He also has no real impact on the current discussion anyways as the #1 Dman on the team and his position secure .. No one is saying Carlo needs to beat him out for a spot ..

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09-12-2005, 03:01 PM
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As long as Perrott doesn't beat out Belak for a spot as the enforcer I like the signing.

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09-12-2005, 06:55 PM
  #18
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There was no way he was going to get a one way deal. I think he is really in tough to make the team this year & will probably be playing with the Marlies if he is not claimed by another team.

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09-12-2005, 07:01 PM
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My favourite thing to do during a Perrott fight was to chant "Go Perrot" but with a loud screechy parrot voice.

Go ahead - try it.

See it's fun isn't it.

Your still doing it.

I knew you would be.

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09-12-2005, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kewl Leafs
My favourite thing to do during a Perrott fight was to chant "Go Perrot" but with a loud screechy parrot voice.

Go ahead - try it.

See it's fun isn't it.

Your still doing it.

I knew you would be.

Awwwwwwk......Go Perrot!!!

Perrot want a cracker?!!?


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09-12-2005, 08:50 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess
McCabe shoots left .. he plays on the right side because of the abundace of left hand shots .. but you have seen the playoff softball passes up the middle causing turnovers because he is playing on the off side and his forhand forces the play up the middle rather then the safe play along the boards .. Hitchcock simply sends the winger in along the boards and forces McCabe or bring the puck up the middle by design to get it out or make cross ice passes to his partner. The results and mistakes made as a result of this have been obvious ..

Khavanov is also a left shot LD .. That really means that Carlo has to beat out Kaberle, Khavanov or Berg on LD to make the team and not force a vet to play his opposite defense position .. The signing of Khavanov really put a crimp into Carlo making the team .. Now it vitually means that if he impresses that Berg needs to be traded to make a LD spot for him .. Berg at over a mil will not be in the pressbox . .
The first thing I noticed when Khavanov was signed was the fact he was a lefty. Klee is our only natural righty...(and I agree that McCabe better on the left than right but we need 2 righty's and he has experience). So this bodes well for either Brown or Belak as they shoot right.

I know players can adapt, but Colaiacovo has never switched as far as I know and it would be asking a lot for him to suddenly learn the right side in training camp.

Maybe Carlo can transplant Berg if he has a good camp.

Marchment is a poster boy for the NHL crackdown on interference. If he makes the team, the Leafs will be dead from powerplay goals against. I don't recall if he has played the right side either.

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09-12-2005, 09:18 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crump
The first thing I noticed when Khavanov was signed was the fact he was a lefty. Klee is our only natural righty...(and I agree that McCabe better on the left than right but we need 2 righty's and he has experience). So this bodes well for either Brown or Belak as they shoot right.

I know players can adapt, but Colaiacovo has never switched as far as I know and it would be asking a lot for him to suddenly learn the right side in training camp.

Maybe Carlo can transplant Berg if he has a good camp.

Marchment is a poster boy for the NHL crackdown on interference. If he makes the team, the Leafs will be dead from powerplay goals against. I don't recall if he has played the right side either.
Yup that sums up my point very well I was trying to make ..

That its not as easy as saying a certain dman fits here or there .. The way you shoot and position you play is vital in roster decisions ..

I did the same as you did with Khavanov with Brown when he was signed .. The fact the he adds needed toughness to the D is a factor .. but I feel the fact that he is also a RD in the process really favours his chances of making the team .. Belak is also RD however slow as molasses that will as you say with Marchment will lead to many many penalties against in clutching and grabbing .. So their effectiveness for toughness is nullified by the downside of their defensive style .. Also the reason other then 2-way Brown got a contract and Marchment did not ..

Carlo is in a really tough spot .. He really has to beat out Kaberle, Khavanov or Berg for his natural position of LD .. He is also the only one that can move from the AHL to the NHL freely without waivers being on his rookie entry level contract ..

Next year Khavanov and Berg and Kabs and McCabe are all UFA ... So the openings depending on what happens are going to be much better for Carlo .. Kronwall has the same hurdle as Carlo being a LD .. but has the size to replace a Berg next year .. Ian White being a Righty and PP QB opportunity in the future is increased by his natural position .. He might even with the new NHL cut down on obstruction be in a better chance to be the rookie Dman this year ..

Carlo and White we all remember were awesome at the WJC a few years back on the PP for team Canada and that same pairing my be a combo on the Leafs in the future ..

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09-12-2005, 11:23 PM
  #23
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It would be nice another one of our D to be a RH shot, but being LH doesn't make him a LD. Different coaches teach different ways and McCabe seems to be more comfortable on that side.

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09-13-2005, 08:17 AM
  #24
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Good discussion.

Brown's one-way is for $50K/$75K, which means he can go up and down all season. Perrott's is a $450K/$150K (or thereabouts), which means if he doesn't make the roster out of camp, he's down with the Marlies for the season.

BTW, Brown's not any more mobile than Belak, so there's less to distinguish them in that regard. In fact, he goes to regular skating workshops and trainers just to skate wlel enough to be a marginal NHLer. Not a slag on Brown - nice guy, a friend of a friend (Brown will live in his buddy Jamie Allison's apartment in Toronto this season, while Jamie plays with the Preds) - he'd be the first to tell you his skating is the weakest part of his game.

The RH shot discussion is only one of the reason's I've been dubious when people have suggested trading Klee. Belak, on the other hand, is totally expendable. I do, however, wonder whether Ferguson might be able to package Berg with Belak to get a comparable or better defenceman to Berg, with a RH shot.

Kaberle - McCabe
Khavanov - Klee
Colaiacovo - ________

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09-13-2005, 09:12 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rand
As long as Perrott doesn't beat out Belak for a spot as the enforcer I like the signing.
what does it matter, they are both terrible ...although at least Perrott can skate ...and maybe his eye surgery last year/season can help him hit the net

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