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Your 2011-2012 Sens Lineup/Roster Thread Part 2

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Old
07-05-2011, 02:23 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by delchief View Post
Still think the Sens will tinker with the top-6 via a trade and/or find trading partners for guys like Kuba, Winchester, Lee, and Regin in return for picks. This is the roster I'd put out there....

Filatov - Spezza - Michalek
Foligno - Zibby - Alfie
Smith - DaCosta - Butler
Greening - Konopka - Neil

Phillips - Rundblad
Cowen - Karlsson
Gonchar - Carkner

Anderson/Auld

Six rookies! Ugh..... still, exciting to watch even with the cringe potential.....
8 players in that lineup have yet to even play a full NHL season, Rundblad and Zibby yet to even play on NA ice.

That is what I call rushing prospects, the rookies aren't just going to be handed out spots on this team.

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07-05-2011, 02:32 PM
  #52
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That is what I call rushing prospects.
It's a point well taken. But isn't this the year to put the rookies out there? I believe it helps forwards to start young, but hinders d-men and goalies. However, Cowen and Rundblad are probably ready to play now since Cowen is already physically huge and Runblad's been playing against men for 2 years. Butler and Greening have already had a significant breaking in period so they're not rookies in the true sense. It's really only the guys like Zibby, Filatov, and DaCosta who I'd worry about since on my roster they'd be asked to play significant roles. If you've got better names for me to pencil into their places, I'm all ears. But I'll tell you now that just because Regin and Winchester and Shannon and Kuba have played more NHL games doesn't make them better fits on this team.

I like my roster, rookie warts and all....

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Old
07-05-2011, 02:38 PM
  #53
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It's a point well taken. But isn't this the year to put the rookies out there? I believe it helps forwards to start young, but hinders d-men and goalies. However, Cowen and Rundblad are probably ready to play now since Cowen is already physically huge and Runblad's been playing against men for 2 years. Butler and Greening have already had a significant breaking in period so they're not rookies in the true sense. It's really only the guys like Zibby, Filatov, and DaCosta who I'd worry about since on my roster they'd be asked to play significant roles. If you've got better names for me to pencil into their places, I'm all ears. But I'll tell you now that just because Regin and Winchester and Shannon and Kuba have played more NHL games doesn't make them better fits on this team.

I like my roster, rookie warts and all....
Filatov
Da Costa
Zibby
Rundblad
Smith
Greening
Butler
Cowen
...have not played a FULL nhl season yet.

If our team is going to be plugged full of rookies, it's because they EARNED those spots over the current roster guys. Roster spots for them will not be a given, if it were, I would really question the philosophy of this team regarding player development.

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07-05-2011, 02:44 PM
  #54
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If our team is going to be plugged full of rookies, it's because they EARNED those spots over the current roster guys.
But that's the beauty of the Sens situation right now. There are tons of spots where the "current roster guys" are nothing to rave about and could easily be replaced. I'm talking about players like Kuba, Lee, Regin, and Winchester. Having watched and analyzed hockey for decades I can definitely say that Jared Cowen is already an upgrade over Filip Kuba, rookie or no. I believe David Rundblad is already an upgrade over Brian Lee. I believe one or more of Mika Zibanejad, Stephane DaCosta, and Bobby Butler have the real potential to be upgrades over Peter Regin (expecially Butler, as proven by last year's point totals). Lastly, I think a kid like Greening brings every bit as much to the table as Jesse Winchester and adds some intangibles like size and speed.

So with the players the Sens have available to them right now (that's the key point here) do you think they can ice a better roster with the current guys vs. the new guys? I do not....

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07-05-2011, 02:53 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by delchief View Post
But that's the beauty of the Sens situation right now. There are tons of spots where the "current roster guys" are nothing to rave about and could easily be replaced. I'm talking about players like Kuba, Lee, Regin, and Winchester. Having watched and analyzed hockey for decades I can definitely say that Jared Cowen is already an upgrade over Filip Kuba, rookie or no. I believe David Rundblad is already an upgrade over Brian Lee. I believe one or more of Mika Zibanejad, Stephane DaCosta, and Bobby Butler have the real potential to be upgrades over Peter Regin (expecially Butler, as proven by last year's point totals). Lastly, I think a kid like Greening brings every bit as much to the table as Jesse Winchester and adds some intangibles like size and speed.

So with the players the Sens have available to them right now (that's the key point here) do you think they can ice a better roster with the current guys vs. the new guys? I do not....
I'll just basically reiterate what I just stated; If the rookies outplay the other guys in camp....then ya, they deserve to be on this team, beating out seasoned NHLer's regardless of which way you spin it and however much potential they have is not going to be a cake walk for rookies.

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07-05-2011, 02:59 PM
  #56
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No, not a cake-walk. We wouldn't want that. As fans we should want competition for virtually every spot on the roster to get the best out of these guys. I just think the rookies will win those spots because the existing guys are just fillers. Especially Kuba, Winchester, and Lee. Regin is still young and obviously has potential. His weirdly odd year last year gives me cause for concern, however.

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07-05-2011, 03:02 PM
  #57
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Condra is getting some major disrespect around here.

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07-05-2011, 03:05 PM
  #58
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Condra is getting some major disrespect around here.
I didn't even mention his name because I was only going by someone else's proposed lineup which didn't include that hockey player.

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07-05-2011, 03:09 PM
  #59
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Condra is getting some major disrespect around here.
I like Condra but don't feel he has the puck or shooting skills to fill a top-6 role and I prefer other players over him in a bottom-6 role. He's a tweener guy. From what I've seen I prefer to include guys like Butler, Greening, Zibby, and DaCosta in my proposed lineups because they either represent a better option on a particular wing or they have the potential to play a skilled-center role. Condra is a non-physical winger with below-average size who thinks the game well. Good call-up. Good 13th forward maybe. But where does he fit in a 12-man forward group to make that the best group possible?

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07-05-2011, 03:14 PM
  #60
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Condra is much better than Greening at everything except playing with Jason Spezza, and Greening won't be doing that much this year. Someone has to play with Kenopka and Neil, Greening would be useless in that role. At worst, Condra is one of the teams best penalty killers.

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07-05-2011, 03:19 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man View Post
Condra is much better than Greening at everything except playing with Jason Spezza, and Greening won't be doing that much this year. Someone has to play with Kenopka and Neil, Greening would be useless in that role. At worst, Condra is one of the teams best penalty killers.
Greening was one of our best defensive forwards last year when he was playing in the NHL. I don't see how he would be useless in that role seeing as he's bigger, more physical, faster and better defensively than Condra (or he was when he was up in the NHL.)

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07-05-2011, 03:27 PM
  #62
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Condra spent twice as much time as Greening on the PK last season and almost a minute more in total ice time per. Greening produced a tad bit more playing with better linemates, which he will not have this coming season. If we are talking 4th line with two fighters, I am taking the better PKer because whoever it is won't be doing much at ES.

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07-05-2011, 03:35 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man View Post
Condra spent twice as much time as Greening on the PK last season and almost a minute more in total ice time per. Greening produced a tad bit more playing with better linemates, which he will not have this coming season. If we are talking 4th line with two fighters, I am taking the better PKer because whoever it is won't be doing much at ES.
Condra is good but he is not better than Greening. Greening has the physical tools to be a dominant force, but we will have to see how he progresses. Being 6'3 and 215lbs lean while also having a 100 mph slapshot and being the fastest player on the team is a nice set of raw materials to be a very good player. Greening also is a good two -way player and both protects and battles for the puck well along the boards. He also has a pretty good set of hands on him and has a willingness to fight heavyweights.

I fail to see how Condra is the better player or has better upside.

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07-05-2011, 03:42 PM
  #64
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I guess I have to spell it out multiple times.

____ - Kenopka - Neil

Whoever is playing there is not going to be getting a lot of scoring chances whether he shoots 100mph or 150 mph. Condra is the more trusted defensive player as illustrated by the fact he led our team in PK TOI/g amongst forwards last year if we remove Chris Kelly. He would ideally be able to continue to do as such this coming season regardless of who he is playing with at ES. If we were talking about a top-6 spot or even a top-9 spot, I would probably lean towards Greening but we are not.

Great PKer on the 4th line with two non-skilled forwards > Toolsy ES player on the 4th line with two non-skilled forwards.

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07-05-2011, 06:07 PM
  #65
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I guess I have to spell it out multiple times.

____ - Kenopka - Neil

Whoever is playing there is not going to be getting a lot of scoring chances whether he shoots 100mph or 150 mph. Condra is the more trusted defensive player as illustrated by the fact he led our team in PK TOI/g amongst forwards last year if we remove Chris Kelly. He would ideally be able to continue to do as such this coming season regardless of who he is playing with at ES. If we were talking about a top-6 spot or even a top-9 spot, I would probably lean towards Greening but we are not.

Great PKer on the 4th line with two non-skilled forwards > Toolsy ES player on the 4th line with two non-skilled forwards.
I wouldn't consider Neil non-skilled. He may not be a high end skilled player but he has a considerable amount of skill for a bottom six player. You make a valid point but on talent and talent alone Greening is the better player.

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07-05-2011, 06:54 PM
  #66
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Michalek - Spezza - Butler
Foligno - Zibby/Da Costa - Alfie
Condra - Smith - Neil
Greening - Konopka - Winchester

Phillips - Karlsson
Cowen - Gonchar
Carkner - Rundblad

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07-05-2011, 06:58 PM
  #67
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Michalek - Spezza - Butler
Foligno - Zibby/Da Costa - Alfie
Condra - Smith - Neil
Greening - Konopka - Winchester

Phillips - Karlsson
Cowen - Gonchar
Carkner - Rundblad
Filatov?

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07-05-2011, 07:09 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man View Post
Condra spent twice as much time as Greening on the PK last season and almost a minute more in total ice time per. Greening produced a tad bit more playing with better linemates, which he will not have this coming season. If we are talking 4th line with two fighters, I am taking the better PKer because whoever it is won't be doing much at ES.

Has our new head coach called you to tell you this? I'm not sure where you think Greening will not get a chance at this point. To say player so and so will be here and this guy will be there is laughable at this point outside of Michalek, Alfredsson and Spezza playing top 6. I'd give Greening the edge over Condra as of this second of being in the top 6, seeing as how one has a 1 way contract and the other doesn't as of now (clearly that can change).

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07-05-2011, 07:11 PM
  #69
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Has our new head coach called you to tell you this? I'm not sure where you think Greening will not get a chance at this point. To say player so and so will be here and this guy will be there is laughable at this point outside of Michalek, Alfredsson and Spezza playing top 6. I'd give Greening the edge over Condra as of this second of being in the top 6, seeing as how one has a 1 way contract and the other doesn't as of now (clearly that can change).
Um, this is the line-up thread.

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07-05-2011, 07:18 PM
  #70
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Filatov?
He's no sure bet to make the club. Will be interesting to see where he plays if he does make the team....

Greening - Spezza - Butler
Filatov - Zibby/Da Costa - Alfie
Foligno - Condra - Michalek
Smith - Konopka - Neil

Phillips - Karlsson
Cowen - Gonchar
Carkner - Rundblad

I guess that's my best gues if Filatov makes the club. Sounds like Murray really wants to see Greening back with Spezza...

And that's one badass 4th line

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07-05-2011, 07:21 PM
  #71
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I agree Condra is as asset on the PK. Only trouble is Greening now has the one-way deal. He's in. Condra has not signed yet, probably because, like Butler, he's being offered a two-way deal. Condra is odd man out unless a trade comes down that does not return a player.

Might as well play rookies this year (Cowen, Rundblad, Greening, Butler, even Filatov) because we'll have another boatload next year (Lehner, Condra, Silfverberg, Zibanejad, DaCosta, Borowiecki, Wiercioch) as well.

And the year after comes Gryba, Hoffman, Puempel, O'Brien, Noesen, Prince and Pageau.

Now lets figure that lineup out with what's still left after this year!

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07-05-2011, 07:25 PM
  #72
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Filatov - Spezza - Michalek - hopefully Fil & Spaz will gel together
Foligno - Regin - Alfredson - this line needs to produce & hopefully Alfie will help these two break out
Greening - Winchester - Butler - 3rd line is a good place to start for all three, less pressure & a place where they can excel at their own speed
Z. Smith - Konopka - Neil - this will be a son-of-a-***** line to play against

Gonchar - Karlsson - I assume that Murray won't be able to trade Kuba until the deadline
Phillips - Lee
Kuba - Carkner/Rundblad - I have a feeling that Maclean will slowly ease Rundblad into the lineup

Anderson - Auld - experienced tandem which is a good thing for a young team that gives up a lot of shots.


Last edited by aragorn: 07-05-2011 at 07:30 PM.
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07-05-2011, 07:27 PM
  #73
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Can anyone actually explain to me how Michalek went from playing LW in San Jose to being so bad at LW that we are forcing a talented player like Butler down in the lineup in order to bully Michalek into that 1st line RW spotÉ

Is it possible that the fact that his production magically explodes when at RW with the Senators may just be an anomaly

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07-05-2011, 07:34 PM
  #74
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Greening-Spezza-Michalek
Filatov-Regin-Alfredson
Condra-Foligno-Butler
Smith-Konopka-Neil
Winchester

Phillips-Lee
Kuba-Karlsson
Cowen-Gonchar
Carkner

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07-05-2011, 07:35 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man View Post
Can anyone actually explain to me how Michalek went from playing LW in San Jose to being so bad at LW that we are forcing a talented player like Butler down in the lineup in order to bully Michalek into that 1st line RW spotÉ

Is it possible that the fact that his production magically explodes when at RW with the Senators may just be an anomaly
It's not a crime to start Butler on the 3rd line, Seguin came with more fam fare as the #2 overal draft pick & he played on the 3rd when he wasn't a healthy scratch. Their young players & coaches tend to bring them along slowly without placing so much pressure on them to produce. I see nothing wrong with it, in fact I think it's the right thing to do.

Michalek had his best season as a RWer in SJ, it doesn't mean he will get the same results here but it does spread out the scoring better. I don't see anything wrong with this either.

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