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Gorges???? (filed for salary arbitration - hearing set for July 28th)

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07-06-2011, 10:01 AM
  #126
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Here's what I would offer Gorges:
2M$ or 2.5M$ (max)
1 year or 2 (max)

4M$ LAWL

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07-06-2011, 10:02 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by OpenIceHit View Post
Because he knows that without him, it will look like this :

Markov-Yemelin
Subban-Gill
Spacek-Weber
Diaz

Scary!

He can go to hell if he really wants 4M. Imo, he deserves Gill's $, no more.
I think it's BS...if there was any truth to it you trade him and sign McCabe for 1 year.

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07-06-2011, 10:05 AM
  #128
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Wow if he really wants 4 million he must have been brainwashed by all the people liking him and telling him how irreplaceable he is for being such a hard working underdog. Defensive role underdogs are not paid 4 millions a year.

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07-06-2011, 10:06 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I think it's BS...if there was any truth to it you trade him and sign McCabe for 1 year.
Gorges is probably looking at 3-3.5 per year for 4 to 5 years.

Methot, a stay-at-home d-man who is about his age and have about the same experience gonna make 3 per season for the next 4 years.

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07-06-2011, 10:06 AM
  #130
OpenIceHit
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I think it's BS...if there was any truth to it you trade him and sign McCabe for 1 year.
I think that too. I don't think he's that arrogant to ask for 4M per.

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07-06-2011, 10:07 AM
  #131
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Just so we're clear, Starr990 is Shaun Starr from the Team990. Here's the original tweet:

Starr990 Shaun Starr
Hearing #Habs Josh Gorges is seeking 4mill a yr. A middle ground of 2.5/yr seems about right. Single pts dman shouldnt earn more than 3mill


Sounds like BS. If 2.5M is a middle ground that would mean the Habs are lowballing him to the point of just wanting him to take his qualifying offer. Seems more likely the Habs will be offering him Gill money, Gorges will be asking for 3.25-3.5 and they'll settle on 2.75-3.

Still would be an overpayment, IMO.

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07-06-2011, 10:10 AM
  #132
OpenIceHit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill McNeal View Post
Just so we're clear, Starr990 is Shaun Starr from the Team990. Here's the original tweet:

Starr990 Shaun Starr
Hearing #Habs Josh Gorges is seeking 4mill a yr. A middle ground of 2.5/yr seems about right. Single pts dman shouldnt earn more than 3mill


Sounds like BS. If 2.5M is a middle ground that would mean the Habs are lowballing him to the point of just wanting him to take his qualifying offer. Seems more likely the Habs will be offering him Gill money, Gorges will be asking for 3.25-3.5 and they'll settle on 2.75-3.

Still would be an overpayment, IMO.
8.25M for 3 years. Accept it or be traded.

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07-06-2011, 10:25 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
Not bitter about anything. Actually I'm trying to understand Gauthier's thought process and granted I'm having a tough time.

The Halak deal I completely understood. I didn't like it but understood it 100 %. I'm not as confident in Gauthier's ability to rebuild the D. I do think Gorges is overrated. I think at best he is a good # 4 d-man in short term spurts. That's all. What annoys me the most about Gorges is his inherent ability to be pushed into the crease. He's physical only in that he will try to hit someone but I've never seen him throw a punishing blow.

The only thing that Gauthier has done that's impressed me with the D so far is sign Emelin. I just don't see a huge upgrade over what the Habs had last year. In fact to face possible injuries it's worse especially if either Markov or Subban are injured.

Just seems like Gauthier is more willing to give money to bottom pairing d-men and let legit top 4 d-men walk out the door. And it's a team that needs help at ES no less.

Wiz supposedly never was offered a contract by Gauthier. It's possible he would have taken less to stay in Montreal as he so expressed. We'll never know I guess.

And admittedly I do dread the thought of Gill possibly pairing with Subban on the second pairing.
Gauthier also went after Cole.
Also, our defense last year was good enough to finish 8th in terms of goals against.
Our Defense stays at about the same level as last year imo. There is an improvement in speed and puck moving, but the loss of Hammer is big in terms of depth.
I'm guessing they're going all in with Emelin/Spacek, at least it appears to be the case as of today. I have faith that Spacek can bring what Hammer pretty much brought. But for that to happen he needs to play on his natural side.

I always felt we should re-sign Hammer over Gill. I think that was a bad move.
Other than that, I'm happy with what Gauthier has done overall, still would have liked a good depth signing like Kaby though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Sounds like BS...
Not to me. That's pretty much what I thought when I heard he filed for arbitration.
I assumed 3.5 was what he wanted, so, 4 isn't too far off.
Not sure how the negotiations went down, not sure if Gauthier even offered him anything yet.
Maybe he did, but then Gorges came back with some ridiculous demand like 4M, and that made Gauthier look for trade options. Who knows really...
But I don't think it's too much BS.

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Originally Posted by hab junkie View Post
4 million???
Bring Sopel back...I always thought he was better anyways!

Gorges= Komisarek v2.0
Gorges and Komi are completely different. The only similarity is that they're stay at home Dmen. Are every Def.Dman around the league the same to you?

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Old
07-06-2011, 10:29 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
As much as I like Hamrlik, Gill was the perfect tutor for PK so bringing him back for another year was a necessity. I think if they could have re-signed Hamrlik for 1 year, Spacek would have been moved. I still think they may try and add a cheap veteran for 1 year after the dust settles and the offers drop much like Halpern last summer.
Does PK still need a tutor? I don't think so.

Gill over Hamrlik was a lousy move. Maybe PG had some plans with regards to UFA that didn't totally materialize. Now, he ends up with money and no good options in terms of D.

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07-06-2011, 10:32 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post

Gorges and Komi are completely different. The only similarity is that they're stay at home Dmen. Are every Def.Dman around the league the same to you?
I think he is comparing their greediness, not their style.

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07-06-2011, 10:41 AM
  #136
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Habs frequently seem rather generous in their re-signings. If Gorges got closer to $3M or above, that would seem generous to me. He's actually worth it. But the world doesn't know it, he hasn't *proven* it yet, consequently his market value and contract value shouldn't really be there. I wouldn't be very afraid of letting him go to arbitration if it came to that. His numbers don't seem likely to draw a very big award?

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07-06-2011, 10:47 AM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
As much as I like Hamrlik, Gill was the perfect tutor for PK so bringing him back for another year was a necessity. I think if they could have re-signed Hamrlik for 1 year, Spacek would have been moved. I still think they may try and add a cheap veteran for 1 year after the dust settles and the offers drop much like Halpern last summer.
Still don't get why people are so keen to word it like that. Gill was a perfect safety net partner who allowed him to take his chances moving the puck (we had all seen a bunch of spinaramas and dashes up the ice before seeing him put with Gill, so a stay-at-home vet makes a natural partner for a risk-taking rookie). A "tutor" should actually teach you how to use the skills you have, and Gill has absolutely nothing to offer in the department of skating the puck up the ice, becoming a more balanced 2-way defender, or being part of an NHL offense or powerplay. He already had someone to learn those basics from when he was paired with Hamrlik, who made a better tutor than Gill (but probably wasn't as much of a "father figure", which may have been something else Subban needed to "keep him in line" and grounded, but you don't actually need that out on the ice if you're getting it off the ice and in practice).

But this is about Gorges. Sounds like he's going to be more expensive than I expected. As underrated as I think his ability to move the puck out of the defensive zone is, at a certain price point you're expected to directly contribute a bit more to the offense, or at least be a stronger presence in the defensive zone (granted, he's still effective thanks to his awareness and mobility). He does well with the assignments he's given, but I don't know how to rationalize $3M/year for the guy.

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07-06-2011, 10:57 AM
  #138
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Still don't get why people are so keen to word it like that. Gill was a perfect safety net partner who allowed him to take his chances moving the puck (we had all seen a bunch of spinaramas and dashes up the ice before seeing him put with Gill, so a stay-at-home vet makes a natural partner for a risk-taking rookie). A "tutor" should actually teach you how to use the skills you have, and Gill has absolutely nothing to offer in the department of skating the puck up the ice, becoming a more balanced 2-way defender, or being part of an NHL offense or powerplay. He already had someone to learn those basics from when he was paired with Hamrlik, who made a better tutor than Gill (but probably wasn't as much of a "father figure", which may have been something else Subban needed to "keep him in line" and grounded, but you don't actually need that out on the ice if you're getting it off the ice and in practice).

But this is about Gorges. Sounds like he's going to be more expensive than I expected. As underrated as I think his ability to move the puck out of the defensive zone is, at a certain price point you're expected to directly contribute a bit more to the offense, or at least be a stronger presence in the defensive zone (granted, he's still effective thanks to his awareness and mobility). He does well with the assignments he's given, but I don't know how to rationalize $3M/year for the guy.
Subban already had the offensive skills, he needed a mentor to help teach him the value of keeping things simple on your side of the red line. Subban's physical tools make him a beast defensively as few guys his size can move like he does.

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07-06-2011, 11:26 AM
  #139
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Hickey's take on it. Thinks they might come to terms before arbitration hearing.

Arbitration could hasten Gorges deal... http://www.montrealgazette.com/sport...893/story.html

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07-06-2011, 11:58 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Subban already had the offensive skills, he needed a mentor to help teach him the value of keeping things simple on your side of the red line. Subban's physical tools make him a beast defensively as few guys his size can move like he does.
Subban's offensive skills were naturally there. However, learning when to pinch in wasn't. He improved as the season went on, but that's not something Gill helped him with.
Gill was a good partner because he's a defensive D, as simple as that. Where I personally feel he was good for PK was during scrums. He's not much of a scrapper, but thanks to his size he can bear hug just about anybody. So in terms of protecting your superstar rookie, he did a great job. That's the main reason why I think Gill was paired with him. It happenend coincidentally at the same time PK was getting a lot more attention from his opponents.

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07-06-2011, 12:05 PM
  #141
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2.75 / year for Gorges seams right

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07-06-2011, 12:07 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Subban's offensive skills were naturally there. However, learning when to pinch in wasn't. He improved as the season went on, but that's not something Gill helped him with.
Gill was a good partner because he's a defensive D, as simple as that. Where I personally feel he was good for PK was during scrums. He's not much of a scrapper, but thanks to his size he can bear hug just about anybody. So in terms of protecting your superstar rookie, he did a great job. That's the main reason why I think Gill was paired with him. It happenend coincidentally at the same time PK was getting a lot more attention from his opponents.
Well said Kriss. I think PK actually helped Gill on the ice more than Gill helped PK. Gill was slow getting to corners and PK was there to bail him out.

No way should we pay Gorges over 3million and there is no way we should sign him to 7 or 8 years either. I like him, but he's replaceable and maybe even upgradable at 3-4m.

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07-06-2011, 12:12 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Habs frequently seem rather generous in their re-signings. If Gorges got closer to $3M or above, that would seem generous to me. He's actually worth it. But the world doesn't know it, he hasn't *proven* it yet, consequently his market value and contract value shouldn't really be there. I wouldn't be very afraid of letting him go to arbitration if it came to that. His numbers don't seem likely to draw a very big award?
I see Gill and Gorges making almost same money. There is no way Gorges will make more than Gill. I see him at the same salary or less.

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07-06-2011, 12:18 PM
  #144
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I think 4 yrs /11M sounds about perfect for him.. anything over and his value is reduced considerably. I love Gorges but he's a solid #4 with the ability to slot into #2 for short periods of time. 2.75M a year sounds right.

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07-06-2011, 12:22 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
Well said Kriss. I think PK actually helped Gill on the ice more than Gill helped PK. Gill was slow getting to corners and PK was there to bail him out.
Agreed. I think Gill-Subban pairing is comparable to the Markov-Komi one without the overly aggressive nature of Komi. We all know who benefited more from the pairing regarding Markov-Komi, same can be said of Gill.

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07-06-2011, 12:31 PM
  #146
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Agreed. I think Gill-Subban pairing is comparable to the Markov-Komi one without the overly aggressive nature of Komi. We all know who benefited more from the pairing regarding Markov-Komi, same can be said of Gill.
Exactly

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07-06-2011, 12:32 PM
  #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pascal View Post
I think 4 yrs /11M sounds about perfect for him.. anything over and his value is reduced considerably. I love Gorges but he's a solid #4 with the ability to slot into #2 for short periods of time. 2.75M a year sounds right.
I would tend to agree with this. If he thinks he still has higher upside, or could cash in on a bigger UFA-value payout, well, he's not there yet, he's still an RFA coming off a half-season, in which case he'd be within his rights to take less than a 4-year deal. It doesn't sound like it should be very difficult for both sides to figure out their perspectives and finish this off, put us out of our mini-misery.

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Old
07-06-2011, 01:26 PM
  #148
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to people who think sopel is as good as gorges,you are crazy. sopel can't skate(yes he blocks tons of shots but those shots are mostly giveaways from him)

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07-06-2011, 01:28 PM
  #149
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to people who think sopel is as good as gorges,you are crazy. sopel can't skate(yes he blocks tons of shots but those shots are mostly giveaways from him)
You were doing so well up until there... That statement cannot be more incorrect.

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07-06-2011, 03:33 PM
  #150
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Methot is a similiar kind of player and he got 3M$. Gorges shouldnt get more than this.

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