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Old
07-06-2011, 12:10 AM
  #201
The Russian General
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Very insightful.
I can't blame him to be tired of your constant Habs bashing. You bring nothing new.


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07-06-2011, 12:29 AM
  #202
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It seems to me like Gauthier is putting his head in the sand and absolutly refusing to adress the issue. He is refusing to get guys that drops that gloves. We got humiliated by a classic beating in Boston and he still won't budge. This was a black mark in the Habs history and i'll always remember who was in charge at that time.

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07-06-2011, 03:57 AM
  #203
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Originally Posted by NSHabs View Post
I have been a loyal fan of this team since 1970.
It is embarrassing to call myself a fan now.
I am tired of seeing my team bullied and intimidated and now,this past year,physically beaten in front of me.
I have had enough.
As some of you young fellows tell me to not let the door hit me on the way out.....show some respect....what were you doing in 1970?
I cannot and will not follow this team under this bizarre pacifist regime.ENOUGH.
sorry to hear, that private sports entertainment company can lead to such pain and anger. feels bad man.

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07-06-2011, 06:06 AM
  #204
Andy
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
Letting Hamrlik go was a good thing for the future of the team. Letting your players get beat up is not....
Yah only in montreal is a plug who plays 5 minutes a game more important that a reliable defensive defensemen who can eat 20-22 minutes a game.

You fans are so insecure. The canadiens got "beat up" in one hockey game that was an anomoly in every aspect of the game.

I don't mind getting tougher, but pluggers who play 5-6 minutes a game against other teams pluggers won't do **** all.

Like I said, I'd be more concerned about replacing a minute eating defensemen then signing a dime a dozen plugger.

Like other posters brought up, signing a Konopka does not stop players like Lucic, Backes, Horton or Brown, Dubinsky from throwing their weight around unless you pair Konopka's like up with the other team's top lines. Doing so would only hurt your team than help given that aside from fighting and winning face-offs, Konopka is a below average hockey player.

The toughness you guys are looking for needs to come from your best players or from players like Neil and Thornton, who can actually play hockey( and btw these types of players are a lot rarer than you think), not from pluggers that play against other pluggers.

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07-06-2011, 06:08 AM
  #205
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Originally Posted by AntonCH View Post
You want toughness?
Find the re-incarnation of Bobby Clarke
for the youth around here, he once broke the ankle of one of the russians in the now famous '72 series.
You don't always need size and pugilistic ability, just a tough as nails attitude and demeanor
I think you are confusing tough with dirty. Clarke was tough because he had 4-5 goons to protect him much like Marchand.

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Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
Yah only in montreal is a plug who plays 5 minutes a game more important that a reliable defensive defensemen who can eat 20-22 minutes a game.

You fans are so insecure. The canadiens got "beat up" in one hockey game that was an anomoly in every aspect of the game.

I don't mind getting tougher, but pluggers who play 5-6 minutes a game against other teams pluggers won't do **** all.

Like I said, I'd be more concerned about replacing a minute eating defensemen then signing a dime a dozen plugger.

Like other posters brought up, signing a Konopka does not stop players like Lucic, Backes, Horton or Brown, Dubinsky from throwing their weight around unless you pair Konopka's like up with the other team's top lines. Doing so would only hurt your team than help given that aside from fighting and winning face-offs, Konopka is a below average hockey player.

The toughness you guys are looking for needs to come from your best players or from players like Neil and Thornton, who can actually play hockey( and btw these types of players are a lot rarer than you think), not from pluggers that play against other pluggers.
I think our team has been tough the last couple years, from the standpoint that they will pay the price and not be intimidated, but I think there is still a benefit to having a guy taht can play and keep the other team honest, it also allows guys like White Moen Pacioretty Cole Subban etc to play with an edge and not have to fear having to go up against the Parros Orr's and MacIntyre's of the NHL...the old "big brother is watching your back" thing. I doubt Marchand would be as cocky if not for THornton and co.

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07-06-2011, 06:28 AM
  #206
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I think our team has been tough the last couple years, from the standpoint that they will pay the price and not be intimidated, but I think there is still a benefit to having a guy taht can play and keep the other team honest, it also allows guys like White Moen Pacioretty Cole Subban etc to play with an edge and not have to fear having to go up against the Parros Orr's and MacIntyre's of the NHL...the old "big brother is watching your back" thing. I doubt Marchand would be as cocky if not for THornton and co.
The Canadiens never had to fear the Parros' or the Orr's because they hardly ever got minutes when they actually play the Canadiens. In fact, they never give the Canadiens problems.

Guys like Neil and Thornton are whole different story because they can actually play hockey. These are the ones that give the Canadiens problems(including the Lucics, Marchands, Dubinskys, Browns, Keslers, Backes), not the Gillies, the Konopkas and all those other pluggers. Players who can play hockey and play tough can give the Canadiens problems.

Like I said, I wouldn't mind Winchester because he can actually play hockey, but I do not approve of a plug like Konopka.

Everyone keeps citing the game where Laraque was kept Lucic honest, but it was one game out of 6 and to keep Lucic honest, we needed to play Laraque's line against Lucic's which was just a disaster. It kept Lucic honest, but it hurt us in other aspects of the game. Lucic ended up scoring the game winner anyway. You gain one plus, but also a negative.

The Neils, Thorntons etc are rarer than you think. Yes, there was Rupp who was availble, but like Dreger said, there were 10 teams offering him the same deal and HE CHOSE the Rangers. Rupp is a guy who can help, but even at that, he's only one guy, once he's off the ice, nothing stops other teams from doing what they want especially when other players can play 18-20 minutes a night(chances are, guys like Rupp won't be on the ice when they are). Wanting a tougher requires a whole change in culture and frankly, I don't think the insecurities of one game(which was an anomoly in every aspect of hockey) warrants a rehauling of a club.

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Old
07-06-2011, 06:33 AM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
The Canadiens never had to fear the Parros' or the Orr's because they hardly ever got minutes when they actually play the Canadiens. In fact, they never give the Canadiens problems.

Guys like Neil and Thornton are whole different story because they can actually play hockey. These are the ones that give the Canadiens problems(including the Lucics, Marchands, Dubinskys, Browns, Keslers, Backes), not the Gillies, the Konopkas and all those other pluggers. Players who can play hockey and play tough can give the Canadiens problems.

Like I said, I wouldn't mind Winchester because he can actually play hockey, but I do not approve of a plug like Konopka.

Everyone keeps citing the game where Laraque was kept Lucic honest, but it was one game out of 6 and to keep Lucic honest, we needed to play Laraque's line against Lucic's which was just a disaster. It kept Lucic honest, but it hurt us in other aspects of the game. Lucic ended up scoring the game winner anyway. You gain one plus, but also a negative.
The best weapon we had to keep Lucic honest was a healthy Komisarek...he ran him over like roadkill on the 401 every game until the fight where he screwed up his shoulder. Gill and Subban did a great job against him and Horton last year, he kept trying his power moves against Gill but he was easily neutralised by Gill's big size adavantage.

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07-06-2011, 06:35 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I think our team has been tough the last couple years, from the standpoint that they will pay the price and not be intimidated, but I think there is still a benefit to having a guy taht can play and keep the other team honest, it also allows guys like White Moen Pacioretty Cole Subban etc to play with an edge and not have to fear having to go up against the Parros Orr's and MacIntyre's of the NHL...the old "big brother is watching your back" thing. I doubt Marchand would be as cocky if not for THornton and co.
So, while fans of most other teams and some players including team captains (oh sorry ex-captains...) think that PK Subban is too cocky, you think he is prevented from being as cocky as he would otherwise be by his fear of having to fight someone like Steve McIntyre? Although, presumably, not actually McIntyre as the Oilers didn't bother to dress him when they played Montreal.

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07-06-2011, 06:37 AM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
The best weapon we had to keep Lucic honest was a healthy Komisarek...he ran him over like roadkill on the 401 every game until the fight where he screwed up his shoulder. Gill and Subban did a great job against him and Horton last year, he kept trying his power moves against Gill but he was easily neutralised by Gill's big size adavantage.
What are you talking about? Komisarek never kept anyone honest, Lucic used to challenge him every ****ing game until the one team Komisarek accepted and got his ass whipped(hell he did it twice that year, got beat up even in the playoffs).

Man do you guys not remember how useless guys like Downey, Langdon and Laraque were!?

It's typical Montreal Canadiens fan mentality, complain when you don't have them and then complain when you do because they are terrible.

Like I said, I don't mind getting tough players who can actually play hockey. I'm all for getting a guy like Neil or Thornton. But to cry over a plugger, I'm sorry, it's not my thing and not something I agree with.

I was happy when we got Moen. I'm happy we have White. These guys can actually contribute to a game. I wouldn't not not be happy if we got Konopka, but I wouldn't cry if we didn't.

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07-06-2011, 06:41 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
What are you talking about? Komisarek never kept anyone honest, Lucic used to challenge him every ****ing game until the one team Komisarek accepted and got his ass whipped(hell he did it twice that year, got beat up even in the playoffs).

Man do you guys not remember how useless guys like Downey, Langdon and Laraque were!?

It's typical Montreal Canadiens fan mentality, complain when you don't have them and then complain when you do because they are terrible.

Like I said, I don't mind getting tough players who can actually play hockey. I'm all for getting a guy like Neil or Thornton. But to cry over a plugger, I'm sorry, it's not my thing and not something I agree with.

I was happy when we got Moen. I'm happy we have White. These guys can actually contribute to a game. I wouldn't not not be happy if we got Konopka, but I wouldn't cry if we didn't.
The reason Lucic was always looking to fight is because Komisarek physically dominated him and put him on his butt 3-4 times a game.

My only complaint with Laraque was that he wanted to be the nice guy all the time instead of protecting his teammates.

I'm not suggesting another Laraque, but there are guys that can play and still be enforcers like Boulton and Winchester.

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07-06-2011, 06:43 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
My only complaint with Laraque was that he wanted to be the nice guy all the time instead of protecting his teammates.

I'm not suggesting another Laraque, but there are guys that can play and still be enforcers like Boulton and Winchester.
I agree with Winchester. Not with Boulton. I think Boulton is a plug who is very limited in what he can do on the ice aside from fighting.

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07-06-2011, 06:48 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
I agree with Winchester. Not with Boulton. I think Boulton is a plug who is very limited in what he can do on the ice aside from fighting.
He can play a regular shift without hurting the team, much like Thornton and co.

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07-06-2011, 07:03 AM
  #213
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
LOL.

This really stopped the multiple cheap shots on Savard and Bergeron, and the recent late hit to Horton's head by Rome.

Sorry, but two of our three smallest players, Cammalleri and Gionta, were our two top playoff goal scorers this year, and our two SMALLEST guys were tops last year. The Habs do not play scared. It's only some fans who seem to have manly adequacy issues.

Now, this is NOT to say that some size is not good, that Cole is not welcome, and Pacioretty won't be good to have back. But the myth of "protection" does not stand the light of scrutiny.

I have nothing against a Dougie Risebrough or Mario Tremblay or Chris Nilan or John Ferguson or even Pierre Bouchard, but Langdon? Odjick? Laraque? Give me a break! And if it is true that Konopka can't play much, then who needs him?
Maybe that's why our results aren't exactly flattering?

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07-06-2011, 07:05 AM
  #214
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Maybe that's why our results aren't exactly flattering?
Which results?

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07-06-2011, 07:27 AM
  #215
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
Maybe that's why our results aren't exactly flattering?
Didn't we get to the semi's last year and nearly knock off the team that won the cup this year? I'd call taht pretty flattering considering the guys we had out.

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07-06-2011, 09:02 AM
  #216
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I want a protector. It's dumb not to have one with PK and Price. I also think we need to play rougher - and not complain so much.

I think Cole is a step in the right direction - he's a good aggresive forechecker. Now for lord-protector I support the acquisition of Lord Boulton.

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07-06-2011, 11:25 AM
  #217
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Didn't we get to the semi's last year and nearly knock off the team that won the cup this year? I'd call taht pretty flattering considering the guys we had out.
If riding a hot goalie to the conference finals and preceding to get completely spanked as soon as that goalie comes down to earth and a quick 1st round exit is flattering to you, that's up to you.

Grabovski scored 30 goals this year, do you think he's a first line center on a team that wins anything?

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07-06-2011, 12:06 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
If riding a hot goalie to the conference finals and preceding to get completely spanked as soon as that goalie comes down to earth and a quick 1st round exit is flattering to you, that's up to you.

Grabovski scored 30 goals this year, do you think he's a first line center on a team that wins anything?
If you're only going to base your evaluation off results then you'll have rather weak ones.

As for the subject at hand, I wouldn't be opposed to bringing in an enforcer, and am now hoping we have our eyes set on O'Brien for Defense. Nobody wants to see nights like the one in Boston happen, and we were all hoping we had a team full of Konopka and Gillies at the time. If we don't sign one though, I won't lose any sleep over it as I don't think it changes the end results of things at the end.


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Old
07-06-2011, 12:07 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
If riding a hot goalie to the conference finals and preceding to get completely spanked as soon as that goalie comes down to earth and a quick 1st round exit is flattering to you, that's up to you.

Grabovski scored 30 goals this year, do you think he's a first line center on a team that wins anything?
Claim: results have not been flattering.
Reply: wait, actually results have been pretty decent.
New claim: But you can't just look at the results! They were just down to players who were in the team!

I'm not even sure what Grabovski has to do with anything or what your actual argument is now.

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07-06-2011, 12:21 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
It's amazing how out of touch with reality you are. Ask those who played against him. I'm embarrassed for you, you should stick to the non contact sports like baseball, coach.
People who played against Bobby Clarke knew that he was a cheap shot artist who had tough guys Dave Shultz, Don Saleski and Jack McHilhargey ready to punch people's faces in if they touched Clarke. Or even if they didn't.

At any rate, the post I wrote was in response to someone saying that Clarke was tough, and offered as proof that he broke someone's ankle. I don't make this stuff up, go back and check.

My point is that it doesn't take a tough guy to break an ankle by swinging a hockey stick as a weapon. And if I wanted to teach my own kid to toughen up, I would consider boxing lessons, Karate, Judo or any number of other martial arts. I would not be teaching him about swinging a hockey stick, wielding a knife, hitting someone with an elbow pad, or even ultimately shooting someone - none of that constitutes toughness in my books.

I think Jackie Robinson, a man who endured a heckuva lot of abuse and provocation, was much tougher, both physically and mentally, than Bobby Clarke was, or Matt Cooke or Gregory Campbell et al. are today.

By the way, I am a certified National level coach in Baseball and volleyball, and I've played and coached hockey too. I know about team sports, contact sports, and even sports psychology. I've trained with, coached and played against REAL tough guys. If I made a list, Bobby Clarke would be nowhere near the top it.

Thank you however, for your kind suggestion about what I should do with my time.

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07-06-2011, 12:23 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
If you're only going to base your evaluation off results then you'll have rather weak ones.

As for the subject at hand, I wouldn't be opposed to bringing in an enforcer, and am now hoping we have our eyes set on O'Brien for Defense. Nobody wants to see nights like the one in Boston happen, and we were all hoping we had a team full of Konopka and Gillies at the time. If we don't sign one though, I won't lose any sleep over it as I don't think it changes the end results of things at the end.
I agree about O'Brien. I've been hoping for this since his name popped up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habtacular View Post
Claim: results have not been flattering.
Reply: wait, actually results have been pretty decent.
New claim: But you can't just look at the results! They were just down to players who were in the team!

I'm not even sure what Grabovski has to do with anything or what your actual argument is now.
My point is, high individual achievements mean very little when they don't correlate with success. It's great that our 2 best scorers were 2 of our smallest, but perhaps that's part of the problem?

Grabs is a 29 goal scorer now, but I wouldn't want him on my team, let alone my top 2 lines. Players of his ilk can't carry a team very far. Was only making the point that while individual awards and accomplishments are nice, if they don't result in W's I don't really care.

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07-06-2011, 02:03 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
If riding a hot goalie to the conference finals and preceding to get completely spanked as soon as that goalie comes down to earth and a quick 1st round exit is flattering to you, that's up to you.

Grabovski scored 30 goals this year, do you think he's a first line center on a team that wins anything?

Have you forgotten?

For a lot of Canadiens fans, a first round exit in the playoffs is a raging successful season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
Yah only in montreal is a plug who plays 5 minutes a game more important that a reliable defensive defensemen who can eat 20-22 minutes a game.

You fans are so insecure. The canadiens got "beat up" in one hockey game that was an anomoly in every aspect of the game.

I don't mind getting tougher, but pluggers who play 5-6 minutes a game against other teams pluggers won't do **** all.

Like I said, I'd be more concerned about replacing a minute eating defensemen then signing a dime a dozen plugger.

Like other posters brought up, signing a Konopka does not stop players like Lucic, Backes, Horton or Brown, Dubinsky from throwing their weight around unless you pair Konopka's like up with the other team's top lines. Doing so would only hurt your team than help given that aside from fighting and winning face-offs, Konopka is a below average hockey player.

The toughness you guys are looking for needs to come from your best players or from players like Neil and Thornton, who can actually play hockey( and btw these types of players are a lot rarer than you think), not from pluggers that play against other pluggers.
You seem to have a pretty good grasp of hockey's X's and O's. It appears that the game of hockey to you is basically black and white.

But for a second, let go of all of your immense hockey knowledge and think outside of the box and use a little common sense.

Here goes.........The Habs tough guy who can fight but resides on the 4th line and plays less than 10 minutes a game is sitting on the bench as Lucic (top line for the Bruins) again crosschecks Carey Price down to the ice. Our top line is on the ice so Pleks Cammy Cole simply gather around and nothing happens.

In your mind, we would now have to put the 4th line on the ice whenever Lucic's line comes out........which would be dumb.

But has it ever crossed your super intelligent hockey mind that all you need to do the next time Lucic comes back on the ice is to pull ONE forward off the ice and insert your tough guy who skates right up to Lucic, drops the gloves and sends a message that Price is off limits.

Or you can simply tuck tail and keep reinforcing the fact that the Canadiens do not stand up for each other.

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07-06-2011, 02:13 PM
  #223
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The above statement begs to ask the question: "how do the red wings do it?"

any thoughts?

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07-06-2011, 02:16 PM
  #224
Andy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
You seem to have a pretty good grasp of hockey's X's and O's. It appears that the game of hockey to you is basically black and white.

But for a second, let go of all of your immense hockey knowledge and think outside of the box and use a little common sense.

Here goes.........The Habs tough guy who can fight but resides on the 4th line and plays less than 10 minutes a game is sitting on the bench as Lucic (top line for the Bruins) again crosschecks Carey Price down to the ice. Our top line is on the ice so Pleks Cammy Cole simply gather around and nothing happens.

In your mind, we would now have to put the 4th line on the ice whenever Lucic's line comes out........which would be dumb.

But has it ever crossed your super intelligent hockey mind that all you need to do the next time Lucic comes back on the ice is to pull ONE forward off the ice and insert your tough guy who skates right up to Lucic, drops the gloves and sends a message that Price is off limits.


Or you can simply tuck tail and keep reinforcing the fact that the Canadiens do not stand up for each other.
And once you take him off that line Lucic will go back and do it again, that's what happened when the instigator rule was implemented...you cannot jump a player without hurting your team.

Konopka wouldn't change a thing and it's naive to think that one fighter who can do nothing else but fight and win faceoffs(Konopka isn't good at anything else including the defensive side of the game) will keep teams honest even when he is on the bench. And it's not just Lucic he's gonna have to stop, it's also Thornton, Chara and Horton.

The Canadiens are not going to re haul their entire team because its fans are insecure when they play the Bruins.

Also, once Konopka is in the box what stops the rest of the goons on the ice from acting the way they do? Nothing.

Lastly, your childish remarks add nothing to discussion and is probably a reason why posters on this board takes you seriously aside from a handful.

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07-06-2011, 02:17 PM
  #225
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Originally Posted by AntonCH View Post
The above statement begs to ask the question: "how do the red wings do it?"

any thoughts?
They play hockey and beat teams on the scoreboard, not with their fists. They've been doing it for years.

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