Trade for Havlat

[blah]

Why? Gagne's the better player.

[SensGod]

Originally Posted by blah

Why? Gagne's the better player.

oh? now why would you say something like that?

what colour is the sky in your world?

[blah]

Blue.

[dedalus]

Originally Posted by blah

Why? Gagne's the better player.

The regular season numbers don't support you in that, and trying to compare their playoff performances from last year makes Gagne look simply awful by comparison. Actually Gagne has never posted a playoff performance like Gaborik's from last year.

Factor in that Gagne plays for one of the most stacked teams in the league while Gaborik is on an expansion club, and there's not much doubt who's the better player.

And he's two years younger.

[RoDu]

it simply isn't gonna happen cause Muckler said Havlat would not be traded. end of story

[blah]

Gagne is a much better two way player and look at the shot totals. I wonder how much Gagne would score if he was taking close to 300 shots. Gaborik is def the better fantasy pick but Gagne is the better player.

[dedalus]

Originally Posted by blah

Gagne is a much better two way player and look at the shot totals. I wonder how much Gagne would score if he was taking close to 300 shots. Gaborik is def the better fantasy pick but Gagne is the better player.

Well for starters Gagne would have to have been healthy enough to get Gaborik's 280 shots, but looking at their shooting percentages answers your question. Gagne's was 7.8%. Gaborik's was three percentage points higher.

In addition, part of the reason that Gaborik gets so many shots is because there are no skill players other than himself on that team. Gagne has fine partners who SHOULD help him achieve better numbers than Gaborik. He doesn't because he's not as good.

If you wish to believe that Gagne is the better player, feel free. THN, which is presumably neutral in the matter, disagrees with you, and I'd say it's a damn good bet there's not a GM in the league who would swap Gaborik for Gagne. I also suspect that if Gaborik was wearing orange-and-black, you'd be arguing that HE was the better player.

[blah]

Originally Posted by dedalus

Well for starters Gagne would have to have been healthy enough to get Gaborik's 280 shots, but looking at their shooting percentages answers your question. Gagne's was 7.8%. Gaborik's was three percentage points higher.

In addition, part of the reason that Gaborik gets so many shots is because there are no skill players other than himself on that team. Gagne has fine partners who SHOULD help him achieve better numbers than Gaborik. He doesn't because he's not as good.

Don't take stats from an injury plagued season. Look at the 3 seasons before he was injured: 12.6, 14.4, and 16.6.

Last season no Flyer shot more than 200 times. You need shots to score goals. Gagne taking 280 shots could easily get him 45+ goals. I still don't see how Gaborik is better.

[dedalus]

Originally Posted by blah

Look at the 3 seasons before he was injured: 12.6, 14.4, and 16.6. Gagne taking 280 shots could easily get him 45+ goals.

This assumes of course that he could maintain 16% shooting average. What your own stats should show you is that he achieved that number only once in his four year career. I will add that Gagne achieved both his highs while having two minimum 65 point scorers on his team. These are exactly what Gaborik lacks. Swap Gagne's team mates of Recchi, Johnsson, DesJardins, Primeau, Roenick, and LeClair with Gaborik's Zholtok, Kuba, Zyuzin, Brunette, Dupuis, and Dowd and I think we both know their numbers would be VERY different indeed.

Originally Posted by blah

Don't take stats from an injury plagued season.

Okay. In 2001-2002 their stats are as follows:

Gagne - 79 games - 33g - 33a - 66 pts - 18:09 mpg - Gagne had the second best plus/minus rating on the club.
Gaborik - 78 games - 30g - 37a - 67 pts - 16:46 mpg - Gaborik was tied with Walz for the top plus/minus rating on his club.

What we have here is obvious. Gaborik scoring MORE while playing one less game and while averaging over 1:15 FEWER minutes in every game. Gaborik did that while having only one other player on his team scoring more than 43 points (Brunette), with one other 20 goal scorer (Brunette), and with a #1 defenseman who put up 24 points (Kuba).

That year Gagne played with two other 60+ point getters (JR & Recchi), and an additional two 50 point scorers (LeClair & Primeau), and FOUR other 20 goal scorers. (None of this includes Adam Oates who scored 10 points in 14 games, a number that prorates to about a 55 point season.) Gagne played with one defenseman (Johnsson) who, with 41 points, would've been the fourth highest scorer on Gaborik's team. Another defenseman (DesJardins) outscored Kuba while missing 17 games. The Flyers' THIRD highest scoring defenseman matched Kuba's totals while averaging 3:30 fewer minutes of ice time than that of Kuba.

In Simon Gagne's best year he scored 66 points. He turned 22 years old and was in his 3rd year.

In Marion Gaborik's best year he scored 67 points. He turned 20 years old and was in his 2nd year.

Simon Gagne's career playoff numbers are: 41 games - 12g - 6a = 18
Marion Gaborik's career playoff numbers are: 18 games - 9g - 8a = 17

Career numbers:
Gagne: 274 games - 89g - 111a
If we "don't take stats from an injury plagued season" we have this:
Gagne: 228 games - 80g - 93a
Gaborik: 230 games - 78g - 90a

All this adds up to one thing: Gaborik achieves the same results while being two years younger and playing for a team that is light years behind the Flyers in both depth and skill.

Originally Posted by blah

I still don't see how Gaborik is better.

Talk to a pro scout. He'll tell you about skating, hands, and creativity. Gagne has these things too, but he's not in Gaborik's class.