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Flyers Rookie-watch '11

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Old
07-07-2011, 04:13 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
Is the statement really that hard to understand? Scrimmages give you better insight into a players overall game then drills do, but its still not a real game and with a real game comes along a lot of other factors that are just not present in a scrimmage. Especially when you are scrimmaging against your teammates. Therefore, even that is iffy.

Up until a year ago I attended a lot of Flyers rookie camps and I will tell you right now that the information gathered from that is closer to useless than it is useful. There were countless players that impressed at these things and couldn't hack it
You are both right in a sense. You could essentially have the worlds most skilled player, that could outshine players in drills and in scrimmages. But neither accounts for awareness on the ice, adrenaline and pressure. Some players just can't hack 19,000 people scream at them for 60 minutes. Also, something else you don't get at these scrimmages is the intensity factor of playing against much larger and experienced players.

They are generally playing against guys around their level. They don't see Ovechkin skating down the ice at them, you don't see Clutterbuck closing in for a huge hit. It's just a different game. All you can get from these things is to ensure that the players have the skills to compete at the NHL level. You cannot judge if they have the mentality or not.

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07-07-2011, 08:50 AM
  #77
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Not there today but:

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For the second day in a row, Erik Gustafsson is showing much improved strength from last year.
-Dave Issac

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07-07-2011, 08:57 AM
  #78
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i'm hitting the prospect camp on saturday morning, anyone know what is going to be going on, specifically, that day?

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07-07-2011, 08:59 AM
  #79
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Not there today but:



-Dave Issac
Who is Dave Isaac? And that is from Twitter I assume? What is his twitter name?

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07-07-2011, 09:07 AM
  #80
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Who is Dave Isaac? And that is from Twitter I assume? What is his twitter name?

http://twitter.com/#!/davegisaac

He is a writer for the PhillySportsDaily.

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07-07-2011, 09:38 AM
  #81
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Also Leed thought yesterday and today Marshall did extremely well. I guess it really is in the eye of who is watching. Really didnt like how Marshall played yesterday, while Leed didnt like how Gustafsson played.

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07-07-2011, 09:39 AM
  #82
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Also Leed thought yesterday and today Marshall did extremely well. I guess it really is in the eye of who is watching. Really didnt like how Marshall played yesterday, while Leed didnt like how Gustafsson played.
do you know what's going on saturday? is it going to be more drills and basic exercises or what?

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07-07-2011, 09:49 AM
  #83
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do you know what's going on saturday? is it going to be more drills and basic exercises or what?
Saturday? Hmm. I don't know for sure. Most likely more drills. Monday though, the 11th, it seems to be a 2 hour practice. I have a feeling it will be all scrimmaging. Wish I could go, but Im heading to Boston for the weekend.

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07-07-2011, 09:53 AM
  #84
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Saturday? Hmm. I don't know for sure. Most likely more drills. Monday though, the 11th, it seems to be a 2 hour practice. I have a feeling it will be all scrimmaging. Wish I could go, but Im heading to Boston for the weekend.
the prospect game vs. the caps rookies isn't until september, correct?

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07-07-2011, 09:55 AM
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the prospect game vs. the caps rookies isn't until september, correct?
Yes, that is what Whyno said.


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Brendan Ranford's got some of the best hands here
-Leed.


So Im not crazy in what I was saying yesterday.

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07-07-2011, 12:54 PM
  #86
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Gustaffson and Marshall both looked great again today. I would take either of them in the number 6 spot over Lilja (along with Bartulis)

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07-07-2011, 01:01 PM
  #87
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Gustaffson and Marshall both looked great again today. I would take either of them in the number 6 spot over Lilja (along with Bartulis)
But would you be comfortable pairing them together should Carle get dealt?

I wouldn't, but separating them (i.e. pairing Gustafsson with Pronger and Marshall with Meszaros) could pay off.

Marshall has steadily climbed uphill in the minors while Bourdon stagnated. It shows you just how important skating is for defensemen.

Either way, I'm liking the way the blueline of the next 5 years is starting to shape up as long as we keep both Meszaros and Coburn in the fold while saving our money for a stud UFA in a couple years.

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07-07-2011, 01:03 PM
  #88
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Keep in mind it was at this camp 2 years ago that Marshall made everyone think he was going to take the number 6 spot. He seems to do well in this camp and then not so hot after. I'm not saying he isn't ready because I've seen him, I'm just remembering what happened in the past.

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07-07-2011, 01:09 PM
  #89
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do you know what's going on saturday? is it going to be more drills and basic exercises or what?
The big crowds at the SkateZone are getting restless with all these drill sessions and now @davegisaac is reporting that they will start scrimmaging Saturday morning.

Monday morn has been scheduled as a scrimmage, maybe we'll get one on Sunday too...

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07-07-2011, 01:10 PM
  #90
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But would you be comfortable pairing them together should Carle get dealt?

I wouldn't, but separating them (i.e. pairing Gustafsson with Pronger and Marshall with Meszaros) could pay off.

Marshall has steadily climbed uphill in the minors while Bourdon stagnated. It shows you just how important skating is for defensemen.

Either way, I'm liking the way the blueline of the next 5 years is starting to shape up as long as we keep both Meszaros and Coburn in the fold while saving our money for a stud UFA in a couple years.
Definitely would not feel comfortable pairing them together... yet. Eventually they could be a solid 2nd pairing. Gustaffson Pronger and Marshall Meszaros sounds good to me, I would love to see Matt Carle gone.

People have argued with me that the Flyers blueline is going to be very weak when all of the Flyers young, offensive talent is at its peak. Seeing how well Marshall and Gustaffsoon have played in rookie camp (even though its a small sample, its encouraging) I have confidence that the Flyers blue line will be fine when that time comes.

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07-07-2011, 01:14 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by jd2210 View Post
Keep in mind it was at this camp 2 years ago that Marshall made everyone think he was going to take the number 6 spot. He seems to do well in this camp and then not so hot after. I'm not saying he isn't ready because I've seen him, I'm just remembering what happened in the past.
Well, there is a legitimate reason why that happened.

Everyone saw Marshall come in and were impressed by this young QMJHL kid immediately showing the ability to hang on with pretty much every single forward in camp. He was able to skate with them, pressure them, and muscle them off the puck.

None of that has changed. The same things that people saw from Marshall then are the same things they're seeing now.

Unfortunately, the same things they missed back then when hyping him are the same things they're still missing: Marshall handles the puck like a live grenade.

The Flyers got one look at his puck-moving and said, "Nuh-uh. Not yet."

Marshall's puck moving has made significant improvements, but I'm not sure if it's at the level it needs to be at just yet. To see whether or not he can handle an NHL role we will have to wait until Training Camp when he's surrounded by NHL players.

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07-07-2011, 01:14 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by anthockey77 View Post
Definitely would not feel comfortable pairing them together... yet. Eventually they could be a solid 2nd pairing. Gustaffson Pronger and Marshall Meszaros sounds good to me, I would love to see Matt Carle gone.

People have argued with me that the Flyers blueline is going to be very weak when all of the Flyers young, offensive talent is at its peak. Seeing how well Marshall and Gustaffsoon have played in rookie camp (even though its a small sample, its encouraging) I have confidence that the Flyers blue line will be fine when that time comes.
AHL vets should look good in rookie camp.

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07-07-2011, 01:18 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by anthockey77 View Post
Definitely would not feel comfortable pairing them together... yet. Eventually they could be a solid 2nd pairing. Gustaffson Pronger and Marshall Meszaros sounds good to me, I would love to see Matt Carle gone.

People have argued with me that the Flyers blueline is going to be very weak when all of the Flyers young, offensive talent is at its peak. Seeing how well Marshall and Gustaffsoon have played in rookie camp (even though its a small sample, its encouraging) I have confidence that the Flyers blue line will be fine when that time comes.
Well another thing you have to realize is that Lehtivuori basically threw himself out of the mix, Bartulis is looking as if he will never progress beyond his current state, and Bourdon's skating has dealt his NHL chances a significant blow.

Gustafsson and Marshall remain the legitimate defensement in the pool, and Gustafsson's ceiling is probably a Matt Carle-esque NHL player while Marshall's ceiling would be a much lesser Coburn; someone who can muscle players and skate with players but may not necessarily be able to handle the offensive game. Coburn can at least hang with the big boys in a puck-moving sense. I don't know whether or not Marshall will ever get there.

The other players in this mix are Hostetter, who I'm not expecting miracles from, and Lauridsen, who is really impressing people but I'm still not sold.

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07-07-2011, 01:43 PM
  #94
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Difficult to assess Bartulis given that he barely played last year.

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07-07-2011, 01:49 PM
  #95
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Difficult to assess Bartulis given that he barely played last year.
True enough, but it's not difficult to assess how the organization feels about him.

There is no sign that the 6th spot is Bartulis' to lose even though he should, given the ice time he's logged for the organization and the contract he signed, theoretically have just been handed the roster spot.

Instead they signed Lilja and still have Walker and are certainly open to giving Gustafsson and Marshall every shot to succeed.

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07-07-2011, 01:56 PM
  #96
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True enough, but it's not difficult to assess how the organization feels about him.

There is no sign that the 6th spot is Bartulis' to lose even though he should, given the ice time he's logged for the organization and the contract he signed, theoretically have just been handed the roster spot.

Instead they signed Lilja and still have Walker and are certainly open to giving Gustafsson and Marshall every shot to succeed.
I think there is a decent chance Walker ends up in the AHL again. Never should have acquired that awful contract.

Lilja... Ugh.

As to the other two... He should be competing with them for a spot, so nothing really wrong there. Bartulis is a #4 in the best case scenario, and more likely a third pairing guy. Everyone has higher hopes for the other two.

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07-07-2011, 02:27 PM
  #97
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AHL vets should look good in rookie camp.
Yep at the ripe old age of 22.

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07-07-2011, 02:29 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Well another thing you have to realize is that Lehtivuori basically threw himself out of the mix, Bartulis is looking as if he will never progress beyond his current state, and Bourdon's skating has dealt his NHL chances a significant blow.

Gustafsson and Marshall remain the legitimate defensement in the pool, and Gustafsson's ceiling is probably a Matt Carle-esque NHL player while Marshall's ceiling would be a much lesser Coburn; someone who can muscle players and skate with players but may not necessarily be able to handle the offensive game. Coburn can at least hang with the big boys in a puck-moving sense. I don't know whether or not Marshall will ever get there.

The other players in this mix are Hostetter, who I'm not expecting miracles from, and Lauridsen, who is really impressing people but I'm still not sold.
Chris,
It looks as though the staff is high on Matt Read. I believe he is what 24? What does the future hold for him?

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07-07-2011, 02:47 PM
  #99
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Chris,
It looks as though the staff is high on Matt Read. I believe he is what 24? What does the future hold for him?
"Hey Chris, tell me the future!"

(By the way, Read just turned 25 last month I believe.)

Honestly, I don't know. It's clear that the organization feels there are heavy hitters in their pool, and Read is one of them.

Coming out of the NCAA free-agent class he was definitely among the best, but everyone was focused on Da Costa.

If he becomes like Tyler Bozak (a solid third liner), we have a winner.

I don't think there's much extra there though. If you think about it rationally for a second as if we had drafted him years ago, he's just like a forward prospect we've been developing until he was 25.

Imagine how disappointed you'd be if Giroux, JVR, Schenn, and Couturier were left to develop into their mid-20s.

Read has skill and two-way ability, but he's not exactly a young prospect. You have to think of him as if he's been paying his dues. At this point, Read should just be entering his prime. That makes me believe that there isn't an extra gear to his game. If there was another gear to his game, he probably would've been in the NHL already.

For now, let's just be happy we have another cheap potential third line winger to plug in. I like Read quite a bit and hope he does get the opportunity to play.

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07-07-2011, 03:39 PM
  #100
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Well another thing you have to realize is that Lehtivuori basically threw himself out of the mix, Bartulis is looking as if he will never progress beyond his current state, and Bourdon's skating has dealt his NHL chances a significant blow.

Gustafsson and Marshall remain the legitimate defensement in the pool, and Gustafsson's ceiling is probably a Matt Carle-esque NHL player while Marshall's ceiling would be a much lesser Coburn; someone who can muscle players and skate with players but may not necessarily be able to handle the offensive game. Coburn can at least hang with the big boys in a puck-moving sense. I don't know whether or not Marshall will ever get there.

The other players in this mix are Hostetter, who I'm not expecting miracles from, and Lauridsen, who is really impressing people but I'm still not sold.
pronger meszaros
timo coburn
carle walker
lilja


given the potential these kids are supposed to have, there are spots to be won on this team.

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