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Old
07-06-2011, 11:17 PM
  #101
darko
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It'd be a mistake to give up this early on Del Zotto. JMO

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07-07-2011, 12:31 AM
  #102
Barbara Underhill
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I think MDZ bounces back this season he had some time to realize what went wrong and address it.

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07-07-2011, 12:58 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I sure as hell hope so......but with Erixon and MDZ its hard to say. He is a shot-blocking machine so he deserves a shot and he looked pretty good in camp last year.

I would LOVE to see:

Staal-Girardi
McDonagh-Sauer
Valentenko-Erixon
With Eminger as the 7th D, this is what I had in mind as well. Valentenko has a cannon of a shot, exacly what the powerplay needs.
MDZ can spend sometime in Hartford. When he is ready, Slather has some decisions to make. It is a good problem to have though.

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07-07-2011, 02:07 AM
  #104
RGY
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Originally Posted by Duskfamous View Post
You can have all the talent, but if you don't have the IQ to keep up with it, you'll be left with wanting more.

Del Zotto was our worst defenseman with GA/60 Mins (Team Average) and this is without him playing much on the penalty kill. The team GF/60 Mins is roughly at the same place as it is from MDZ on the ice. He's a liability defensively and I think he may have been rushed onto our team. I would've preferred the McDonagh route where MDZ could've stayed a year longer in Junior than come up for an AHL stint last season. Trade him while he has value in part with a package for a core player or an organization need, such as a LWer.
So wait because an offensively gifted defenseman who excelled in the OHL, and then excelled at the NHL level, but has a subpar defensive game we should trade him? And that means he doesnt have an IQ? WHAT?!?! This is one of the most ridiculous statement I have read about MDZ. The way you talk you sound surprised his defensive numbers were poor. But you shouldnt be because if you knew anything about MDZ it was that when drafted it was known his defensive game needed work. Maybe he was rushed, maybe he wasnt. The Rangers severely needed a offensive blueliner to man the PP. And he did a pretty damn good job his rookie season. Of course his defensive game needs work but we dont have anyone else like him in our system. We dont have a blueliner with his kind of talent. And since we dont, you dont trade the only prospect with some semblance of PP ability since Brian Leetch.

You cant have a flawless defense with flawless defensemen. No NHL team does. MDZ is hardly unfixable. In fact he is still developing because he is 20 YEARS OLD. The defensive part of his game will get better with experience and coaching. This kid works hard and wants it bad. He made the team two years ago because he was ready....and he was ready because of his work ethic. MDZ said a couple weeks ago that he is very motivated. I definitely believe that. Your assessment of him is extremely poor and I'm glad you're not the GM. Yes we do need a LWer but we also need to fill the job of a defenseman with exceptional offensive abilities who can work the PP, especially now with BR here.

Stop the insanity. Stop trading MDZ in every proposal as if it to say his career is over at age 20 and we might as well trade him while we can get something for him.

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07-07-2011, 07:14 AM
  #105
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The same people who want to trade Del Zotto probably want Cam Fowler because of hit rookie season.

Oh wait...

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07-07-2011, 07:56 AM
  #106
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I am going to go out on a limb and say that either a veteran or V-Tank is our 6th D to start the season... to pair with Erixon. MDZ will be with the Whale. Our top 4 will be fine.

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07-07-2011, 10:41 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by xxxZENxxx View Post
I am going to go out on a limb and say that either a veteran or V-Tank is our 6th D to start the season... to pair with Erixon. MDZ will be with the Whale. Our top 4 will be fine.
I think VTank deserves a long look.

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07-07-2011, 10:52 AM
  #108
SERE 24
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Including Del Zotto in trade proposals isn't "giving up" on him. Have you ever heard the saying "you have to give to get"? Well it just happens that of the pieces on this team that would have value in a trade (or we could assume would have value in a trade, since we fans don't really know) Del Zotto is more expendable than a Dubinsky or a Stepan or Staal. Erixon wouldn't be as valuable in a deal - he's never played in the NHL and we just acquired him - and neither would Sauer, who will also probably be cheaper to retain in the long term and plays a different role. McDonagh is going to be a better d-man, and I doubt anyone wants to part with him. Del Zotto is simply a bit more expendable than anyone else and that's why he's included in proposals. Everyone knows he could still be a very good player and I believe everyone HOPES he will be. But if we're going to make a move, most people would rather not include an already set roster piece. Del Zotto had a good rookie season and still has loads of potential and thus, most would assume, good value. If you have to give to get and nobody wants to give up the valuable guys who are already making an impact than Del Zotto becomes the obvious target. It isn't about not liking him, giving up on him, believing his career is over or throwing him under the bus. It's that you can't get anything of value back by offering Wolski + Christiansen.

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07-07-2011, 11:02 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Prustqvist24 View Post
Including Del Zotto in trade proposals isn't "giving up" on him. Have you ever heard the saying "you have to give to get"? Well it just happens that of the pieces on this team that would have value in a trade (or we could assume would have value in a trade, since we fans don't really know) Del Zotto is more expendable than a Dubinsky or a Stepan or Staal. Erixon wouldn't be as valuable in a deal - he's never played in the NHL and we just acquired him - and neither would Sauer, who will also probably be cheaper to retain in the long term and plays a different role. McDonagh is going to be a better d-man, and I doubt anyone wants to part with him. Del Zotto is simply a bit more expendable than anyone else and that's why he's included in proposals. Everyone knows he could still be a very good player and I believe everyone HOPES he will be. But if we're going to make a move, most people would rather not include an already set roster piece. Del Zotto had a good rookie season and still has loads of potential and thus, most would assume, good value. If you have to give to get and nobody wants to give up the valuable guys who are already making an impact than Del Zotto becomes the obvious target. It isn't about not liking him, giving up on him, believing his career is over or throwing him under the bus. It's that you can't get anything of value back by offering Wolski + Christiansen.
But we can't afford to give up Del Zotto when he is the only D-man in our system with any likelihood of having some offensive ability. Sure, Erixon and possibly McDonagh have some offensive potential, but not of Del Zotto's caliber. We cannot just roll 6 Robyn Regehrs out there if we want to win anything.

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Old
07-07-2011, 11:12 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Ke11y96 View Post
I may be alone in this logic but I would love love love love to see this team trade for Dustin Byfuglien!! A good skating, big guy, with hard shot plays right side, and is physical...Go Get Him Slats...
DO NOT WANT!!!!!!!!!!!

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07-07-2011, 11:16 AM
  #111
SERE 24
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Originally Posted by Pugs35 View Post
But we can't afford to give up Del Zotto when he is the only D-man in our system with any likelihood of having some offensive ability. Sure, Erixon and possibly McDonagh have some offensive potential, but not of Del Zotto's caliber. We cannot just roll 6 Robyn Regehrs out there if we want to win anything.
I think we can. Lundqvist with six solid defenseman in front of him gives any team a chance to win every night. If Stepan and AA take even small steps forward and Richards performs like we expect, than we have a decent offense. If Gaborik (let's pray) bounces back even 85% of the way, we could have a pretty darn good offense. Staal still has room to improve offensively, he is only 24. Girardi just put up 31 points. Staal put up 29. McDonagh definitely has offensive upside (pace for 20 points as a rookie and that could have improved over 82 games, as he became more comfortable - on the other hand, I know projections aren't worth much); he was playing it pretty safe last season, understandably, but he is a very good passer and outstanding skater with good sense of the ice. Erixon, similarly should be a fair puck mover.

We shouldn't act like there's no middle ground between guys like Regher and Del Zotto. A set of defensively strong d-men with fair two-way sensibility, in front of a rock of a goaltender will give us a chance to win every single night. You're selling our guys short. Is it nice to have a designated puck-moving dman? Yes. Do I want to trade Del Zotto just for the sake of it? Not at all. Would I if it made the team better? Absolutely. Once again, saying he is the most expendable OF pieces with value does not mean he's completely expendable and worthless, in any sense. It means, when it comes down to negotiate a deal, it's a lot easier to part with MDZ than most of our other assets.

What we have might not be top flight offensive defensemen, but we have a stable of pretty competent two-way guys back there. Even Sauer might surprise us with a little more offensive upside (put up 3 goals and 15 points as a rookie). And if Del Zotto isn't moved because we're not making a deal to improve our team, than hopefully he's ready to be an 70+ game NHL d-man again and we'll have a very strong group on the back end.


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Old
07-07-2011, 11:33 AM
  #112
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I don't think that MDZ will have an off year, I'm very happy to see that he's getting some Barb time. With the work she's done with a big man, Im looking forward to see what she can do with an already gifted skater who maybe jacked himself up and tried to play a reactionary physical brand of defense like his teammates who all possess a 6'2" 220 lb frame.

I loved the fact that he willing to play physical and take the body, but he was only effective playing defense that way against the likes of Marchand, Kennedy and guys that are close to his size. He can't out-muslce the bigger guys, but he can physically dominate them with his skating ability, stickwork, his head for the game (gotta trust Torts and Bobby Orr there MDZ), and his swag.

Improving his lateral agility, and quickness, and rushing pucks up the ice (puck transport isn't always about that break out pass, which's another thing in his skill set), I think he can turn into an all star. Gresch said it in a interview once, Leetch likes the kid, so does Bobby Orr, Michaels lucky to have some of the finest people and facilities around him. As long as he puts the work in he'll be fine. We'll all get to see his swag when he's got the puck, he's just gotta be all about TCB when he doesn't have it on his stick.

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07-07-2011, 12:12 PM
  #113
RGY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prustqvist24 View Post
Including Del Zotto in trade proposals isn't "giving up" on him. Have you ever heard the saying "you have to give to get"? Well it just happens that of the pieces on this team that would have value in a trade (or we could assume would have value in a trade, since we fans don't really know) Del Zotto is more expendable than a Dubinsky or a Stepan or Staal. Erixon wouldn't be as valuable in a deal - he's never played in the NHL and we just acquired him - and neither would Sauer, who will also probably be cheaper to retain in the long term and plays a different role. McDonagh is going to be a better d-man, and I doubt anyone wants to part with him. Del Zotto is simply a bit more expendable than anyone else and that's why he's included in proposals. Everyone knows he could still be a very good player and I believe everyone HOPES he will be. But if we're going to make a move, most people would rather not include an already set roster piece. Del Zotto had a good rookie season and still has loads of potential and thus, most would assume, good value. If you have to give to get and nobody wants to give up the valuable guys who are already making an impact than Del Zotto becomes the obvious target. It isn't about not liking him, giving up on him, believing his career is over or throwing him under the bus. It's that you can't get anything of value back by offering Wolski + Christiansen.
I dont need a lesson on "you need to give to get." That is not the case here with MDZ. You're dealing a player that fits a need. I dont want to make any trades right now unless sather is going to fleece someone and I doubt that happens. I like the guys we have. We can win a lot of games with this roster, at least plenty enough that we'll be in a playoff position at the trade deadline when we should make a move for a 1st line LWer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pugs35 View Post
But we can't afford to give up Del Zotto when he is the only D-man in our system with any likelihood of having some offensive ability. Sure, Erixon and possibly McDonagh have some offensive potential, but not of Del Zotto's caliber. We cannot just roll 6 Robyn Regehrs out there if we want to win anything.
The thing with Erixon and McD are they are more Staal and Girardi-like. Though I think Erixon will be the guy with the best shot in the long run compared to the other 3, he still isnt a Brian Leetch type of player. We havent had anybody with the capability of running the PP in our system since Leetch. We finally got someone in MDZ and we're looking to deal him?

Mark my words, whether MDZ starts the season with the Rangers or with the Whale, he will eventually be on the big club and he will be producing a lot. Especially when given time on the PP next to Brad Richards.

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07-07-2011, 12:14 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Mikos87 View Post
I don't think that MDZ will have an off year, I'm very happy to see that he's getting some Barb time. With the work she's done with a big man, Im looking forward to see what she can do with an already gifted skater who maybe jacked himself up and tried to play a reactionary physical brand of defense like his teammates who all possess a 6'2" 220 lb frame.

I loved the fact that he willing to play physical and take the body, but he was only effective playing defense that way against the likes of Marchand, Kennedy and guys that are close to his size. He can't out-muslce the bigger guys, but he can physically dominate them with his skating ability, stickwork, his head for the game (gotta trust Torts and Bobby Orr there MDZ), and his swag.

Improving his lateral agility, and quickness, and rushing pucks up the ice (puck transport isn't always about that break out pass, which's another thing in his skill set), I think he can turn into an all star. Gresch said it in a interview once, Leetch likes the kid, so does Bobby Orr, Michaels lucky to have some of the finest people and facilities around him. As long as he puts the work in he'll be fine. We'll all get to see his swag when he's got the puck, he's just gotta be all about TCB when he doesn't have it on his stick.
And this is exactly something you learn over time with experience. You dont give up on players like MDZ because that part of the game is something that can be obtained.

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07-07-2011, 01:15 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Jagr68NYR94Leetch View Post
And this is exactly something you learn over time with experience. You dont give up on players like MDZ because that part of the game is something that can be obtained.
Yup, absolutely true, he's gotta keep his feet moving and boxing guys out at the proper angles. Once he gets that down he can
either play the puck or the body, he's got all the tools to be a dynamic defender while being a dangerous threat in transition and the pp.

Unlike guys like Gilroy and Christenson who show signs of low confidence and are easily intimidated, Michaels got the confidence, it's just a shame to see guys who want that to crack. Its like they always want a whipping boy on d, why wouldn't you want a stable of thoroughbreads back there?

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07-07-2011, 02:01 PM
  #116
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I have faith in DZ, kid just had a bad year.

I'd really love to see Vtank as either the first callup, or at least get a nice long look by the staff. I think the kid is ready.

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07-07-2011, 02:05 PM
  #117
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sign hannan

we need to sign scott hannan
mdz can spend a full year in the minors, he is only 21. this will only ge good for him. loot at sauer, it took him 5 years to get to the nhl and that was the proper way of developing him. same will be with McIllbust. so MDZ playing a full year in hartford only benefits him

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07-07-2011, 03:02 PM
  #118
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I don't know why anyone would be worried about a defense that's finished in the top 5 for what? The last 5 or 6 years?

A defense that may be young but has seen fantastic things and has more in the pipeline than anyone else in the NHL.

The D is fine.

Score goals consistently and you have the makings of a good team.

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07-07-2011, 03:47 PM
  #119
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McD will never be what MDZ could be. The key to scoring is defense. We need scoring. Thus we need what MDZ can offer more than what McD does.

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07-07-2011, 06:02 PM
  #120
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McD will never be what MDZ could be. The key to scoring is defense. We need scoring. Thus we need what MDZ can offer more than what McD does.
Sure, we need it more...but the question is will we get it? McD is already a 2nd pair dman and will likely become a legit #3 in short order. While that's not impossible to replace, it's still a very valuable asset to have.

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07-07-2011, 07:27 PM
  #121
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yep, i have no worries at all.

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07-07-2011, 07:32 PM
  #122
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just get doughty ffs

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07-07-2011, 11:50 PM
  #123
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It'd be a mistake to give up this early on Del Zotto. JMO
He'll definitely be in the NHL this year.

Ranger Brass thought MDZ would have been back last season when he was sent down. It wasn't intended on being a permanent thing. He went to Hartford and broke his hand which ended his season. Many people fail to realize this. They think he just went down and stayed there so we need to get rid of him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duskfamous View Post
You can have all the talent, but if you don't have the IQ to keep up with it, you'll be left with wanting more.

Del Zotto was our worst defenseman with GA/60 Mins (Team Average) and this is without him playing much on the penalty kill. The team GF/60 Mins is roughly at the same place as it is from MDZ on the ice. He's a liability defensively and I think he may have been rushed onto our team. I would've preferred the McDonagh route where MDZ could've stayed a year longer in Junior than come up for an AHL stint last season. Trade him while he has value in part with a package for a core player or an organization need, such as a LWer.
Since you're so good at statistics why don't you lookup the last straight PMD the rangers had. He was a year older than MDZ when he joined the Rangers and the era was a bit different so his point scoring was higher but still his defensive standing relative to his teammates should be just as meaningful as he learned that side of the game. I believe Brian Leetch was 20 when he played his rookie year on the Rangers in 1988-9 and I think you'll find his defense was somewhere between piss poor and down right horrid. According to people like you, we should have traded him because in his second year, his offensive numbers he slumped and his defense got a lot worse. The year later he bounced back in his true breakout season and the following year he was a Norris winner.

Run you same statistical analysis against the same aged defensemen on defensemen on other teams and you'll find, MDZ's defense is appropriate and his offense is way above. We'd be fools to move him. We haven't had someone like him in the system in decades.

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07-08-2011, 12:02 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
He'll definitely be in the NHL this year.

Ranger Brass thought MDZ would have been back last season when he was sent down. It wasn't intended on being a permanent thing. He went to Hartford and broke his hand which ended his season. Many people fail to realize this. They think he just went down and stayed there so we need to get rid of him.



Since you're so good at statistics why don't you lookup the last straight PMD the rangers had. He was a year older than MDZ when he joined the Rangers and the era was a bit different so his point scoring was higher but still his defensive standing relative to his teammates should be just as meaningful as he learned that side of the game. I believe Brian Leetch was 20 when he played his rookie year on the Rangers in 1988-9 and I think you'll find his defense was somewhere between piss poor and down right horrid. According to people like you, we should have traded him because in his second year, his offensive numbers he slumped and his defense got a lot worse. The year later he bounced back in his true breakout season and the following year he was a Norris winner.

Run you same statistical analysis against the same aged defensemen on defensemen on other teams and you'll find, MDZ's defense is appropriate and his offense is way above. We'd be fools to move him. We haven't had someone like him in the system in decades.
I think its a bit hasty to be comparing Leetch and Del Zotto. Leetch was also a PPG player his first year. Not that I'm in favor of trading MDZ, but I don't think he's going to be seeing any Norris' in his career.

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07-08-2011, 12:44 AM
  #125
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I think its a bit hasty to be comparing Leetch and Del Zotto. Leetch was also a PPG player his first year. Not that I'm in favor of trading MDZ, but I don't think he's going to be seeing any Norris' in his career.
yeah, im a fan of MDZ's, but there is no way in hell you can compare him to Brian Leetch. Leetch's first 2 seasons here were lightyears ahead of MDZ's.

only reason i propose to trade him is to help us up front. We've got a plethora of defenseman, its a position of strength to deal from.

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