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Old
07-07-2011, 12:49 PM
  #276
Chief
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Originally Posted by Shadowrunner View Post
Again, my "top 10" grade wasn't for his entire tenure, but post lockout only. Pre lockout he was on par with Mad Mike and Don Waddell.

If I had to rate his performance post lockout:

Drafting and prospect development (the most important aspect in my mind): A
Trades: A
UFAs: D (was F before the Richards signing)

Considering the UFA mistakes no longer haunt the team, minor cap issues notwithstanding, I'd say that's good enough for top 10. Of course, your grades may be different, and that's totally fine.
I'm not going to beat a dead horse but I saw your last post after my last response and I figured I'd mention why I disagree with your last post.

Drafting: In the first 3 drafts post lockout, the Rangers had 22 picks and came away with Staal (#2 Dman), Sauer (2nd pair Dman) and maybe Hagelin, depending on what he is. Of course, the Cherry pick was in there and we'll unfortunately never know what would have become of him. Anyway you slice it, I don't see how that series of picks could merit an A - especially with Sanguinetti and Lafleur being busts. To give the Rangers high grades for players who haven't even turned pro yet is premature. So I don't see drafting can merit an A.

Development: I'd give the Rangers and Sather high marks for developing the players they have but they've yet to develop a top line scorer or point producing Dman, so, again, I think grading them too highly is unjustified and premature.

Trades: Not much to complain about when it comes to trades but I think the positives get blown out of proportion a bit. The trade for Erixon has me stoked. Getting rid of Gomez and Kotalik were great moves to correct prior mistakes but it's not like we got superstars in return. Maybe McDonagh is nothing more than a #3. Prust is a great guy to have on the team but he's not a top 6 forward. And Sather's attempts to address the teams needs for playoff runs have fallen short - see McCabe, Jokinen, Lisen, Sjostrom, Ozolinsh. Sure, the price might not have been great to acquire any of those players but sometimes, you get what you paid for, and the Rangers really didn't get much when they acquired those players.

UFA: We're pretty much in agreement. But if Gabby can come back to his usual production and Richards works out, maybe the grade gets higher (let's not forget Girardi was also a college UFA signing, as well).


Last edited by Chief: 07-07-2011 at 12:54 PM.
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Old
07-07-2011, 12:50 PM
  #277
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This is perhaps Sather's biggest weakness. He actually thought that players like Redden who were clearly washed up in Ott would be able to find their mojo with the ridiculous "change of scenery".

He also thought that players like Drury and Gomez would be impact players rather than complimentary 2d and 3d liners.

I think he really has learned his lesson which is why we went for Richards and the usual UFA tough guy in Rupp but have otherwise stayed away from mid-level guys like Leino and Cole, both very good players who will now be expected to perform like superstars with their new teams.
I think we all hope he's learned his lesson about not signing mid-level guys to bloated contracts...the real question is has he learned or was the albatross of a contract that is Redden keep him from signing one of those guys? It may turn out to be the only positive Redden has brought

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07-07-2011, 12:52 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by Chief View Post
We aren't one of the few teams to make the playoffs every year but one. Nine teams have done that (with two of those, Det and SJ, having made the PO's every year). There have also been another 5 teams that have made the PO's 4 out of the last 6 seasons. So that's half the league that's been in the PO's at least 4 out of the 6 seasons since the lockout.

The funny thing is that 7 of the teams that made the PO's less times than the Rangers have managaed to make it to the Stanley Cup Finals during that span, so is our GM really better than the GM's of those teams?

Some people will come up with excuses to not give Sather any credit and others want to give him too much credit. Since the lockout, Sather has been about as good and bad as a lot of GM's. Until he puts together a consistent Cup contender, there's no justification to call him one of the best GM's in the league.
I don't buy that success can only be judged by winning the Cup. For example, would I trade all the core for a guaranteed run this year? Absolutely not. What Sather's managed to do is to build a pipeline of talent and a scouting system that can keep it going with mid-round picks. That is damn rare for the Rangers. Actually, it's hard to remember when we actually had players from below legitimately pushing for spots. As a fan, I want a team that contends for decades in a row, ala Detroit. That's much more enjoyable than a one and out like Florida achieved in the year they made it to the finals.

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07-07-2011, 12:53 PM
  #279
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It appears that certain things are going better than they used to, in some instances much better. I think things are looking up, maybe not dynasty of even championship(s) but the philosophy has changed somewhat. I still am hoping that Gorton replaces Sather if only as GM and Sather can stay on as president in figurehead form only and maybe for trades.

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07-07-2011, 01:39 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by OldStanley View Post
It appears that certain things are going better than they used to, in some instances much better. I think things are looking up, maybe not dynasty of even championship(s) but the philosophy has changed somewhat. I still am hoping that Gorton replaces Sather if only as GM and Sather can stay on as president in figurehead form only and maybe for trades.
I am hoping Gorton is the guy as well, it just scares me that Dolan will want a "name" and regardless of credentials he hires Messier.

*Please do not turn this post into an anti-Messier commentary as that's not how it is intended, at this point in time Gorton is the more experienced candidate.

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07-07-2011, 02:52 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Shadowrunner View Post
That's the whole point, which you missed completely. MSL was nowhere near a star for quite a few seasons before he developed into one of the league's premier forwards. He was waived by his team, etc.

Comparatively, MZA has had a better rookie year than MSL. It doesn't mean he'll have anywhere near MSL's career, but it's encouraging to see, considering they both have similar challenges to overcome.
Mza has nothing to do with St. Louis besides size. To repeatedly criticize posters who understand this points you out as the one who has not a clue about how to evaluate a player.

It's not that we do not understand your point. It is that we find it to be simplistic thinking.

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07-07-2011, 02:55 PM
  #282
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I think Sather has been an excellent GM since the salary cap. Why did the salary cap change him? It forced him to distribute money across different aspects of the business.

I believe his priority in NY is to make Dolan money. Be a business man. Spend where needed. Save where possible. Control costs and sell tickets for the highest possible price. How do you do that? Winning is one way, the best way, but also the most difficult way. After all only one team wins the cup per year, only a handful go far in the playoffs.

Another method? --> Generate publicity. Sign free agents to big bucks. Surefire way to attract average fans because they want to go to a new & improved team with a shiny new free agent. So-so fans donít care about a slowly improving young team. So that is what Sather concentrated on. And spent his money on. Free agents & big names.

NOW, with a salary cap, he is forced to be more deliberate and thoughtful. His on ice payroll is lower, so he is spending more on development and scouting. He lands the big free agents, but he canít be quite as flagrant about it. He calculated correctly that his spending on scouting and development would improve publicity, and winning, and generate revenue.

Hindsight shows that perhaps the Rangers could have been better at winning all along if he was always distributing more money to scouting and development and less to payroll.

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07-07-2011, 03:06 PM
  #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Mza has nothing to do with St. Louis besides size. To repeatedly criticize posters who understand this points you out as the one who has not a clue about how to evaluate a player.

It's not that we do not understand your point. It is that we find it to be simplistic thinking.
Besides size, both players have excellent offensive instincts, have excelled at every level before making the NHL, and have had decent but unspectacular rookie seasons. They are different in many respects, but that is sufficient grounds for comparison in the context of gauging a player's potential.

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07-07-2011, 04:52 PM
  #284
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Post lockout I think that Sather has done a good job with the team overall, from the draft, trades, free agency, and player development. Not to mention bringing in Tortorella.

Many complain about long contracts and NMCs, but other GMs employ the same tactics to secure, lure, talented players every free agency.

IMO, Sather’s only really bad UFA move post lockout was Redden. You can’t fault Sather for wanting to improve his team by adding a necessary component: 1st pairing/PP QB, it’s just the choice of player that needed to be considered. No reason to take a chance on a player who’s career was spiraling downward, like Redden’s was.

The Drury/Gomez signings were good moves that HAD to be made at the time. With Cullen gone we needed a 2C, and with Nylander walking we needed a 1C. Both Drury and Gomez had all requirements to be good to very good player for the NYR. Their respective teams offered them deals of $5m or so to resign. Sather overpaid each by 2m in the open market. Were they worth that kind of $. No. But we couldn’t leave the #1 and 2C spots open could we?

Both players played well their first seasons with the club, when they had some talent on their wing. Not entirely their fault they were placed in a club with a modest amount of scoring.
Gomez required a specific kind of wing to thrive. Too bad we didn’t have it.
Too bad Drury was concussed again and got injured as a NYR. In retrospect we had to sign these centers imo.

RIP if Cherepanov were on this club right now theoretically he could be a 60-70p player by now.
It hurt us losing what could have been a top 3-6 scorer on this team.

I think overall we’re in a good place right now, as long as players take the next step going forward. Another true impact scorer would make us a legit contender. Maybe it comes from within our ranks or next FA.

Pre lockout was a horrible time. One I’d like to forget. Sather has done some good work undoing some mistakes post lockout, while making this team better each year through different methods.
We may ridicule the man, and he deserves some of it, but he’s a very respected GM around this league by his peers for a reason.

We all know how he started. Let’s see how he finishes.

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