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Shane McColgan, regular draft or steal of the century?

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Old
07-07-2011, 11:17 AM
  #26
Mats Zuccarelli
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What about St. Croix? I believe he was more highly rated than McColgan was. St. Croix was expected to be a first rounder

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07-07-2011, 11:20 AM
  #27
Clowes Line
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If he can become Brad Marchand v2 I'll be THRILLED

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07-07-2011, 11:30 AM
  #28
ocarina
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
So Lundquist wasn't good before the 2000 draft because he was a late round pick...what about Zetterberg another late round pick and Girardi who was never drafted???
Whoa, way to take my words out of context.

I didn't say it wasn't a good pick or that he isn't a good player, I was just saying that it isn't that big a deal that we got a guy in the 5th round who at the beginning of the year was considered a top prospect.

He could very well develop and leave other teams kicking themselves, but he has a long ways to go as of now. I just don't believe in proclaiming late round picks steals only weeks after they have been drafted.

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07-07-2011, 11:49 AM
  #29
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Certainly was a good value pick along with St. Croix but we will have to wait and see what happens this season before we can even start to determine whether or not this was a steal or a justified drop. There was obviously something people saw that made him drop.

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07-07-2011, 12:04 PM
  #30
Hanke
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How can he be draft of the century when he didnt even play a game since he was drafted.. Let alone a NHL game...

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07-07-2011, 12:06 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
Because a big guy with top skill goes first overall. A big guy with second line skills goes in the top half a dozen. If you don't have a top-5 pick, you have to make sacrifices. But what do you sacrifice: size or skill?

Most fans prefer to sacrifice skill because you cannot pretend that someone is 6'2 when he is 5'10, but you can pretend that someone with third line skills has high potential when he is dominanting teens who will never even be minor leaguers.

Then fans wonder why we have so many grinders and so few scorers.

The team is focusing on small guys now because we need scorers. Offensively talented big guys are not available in round 5. In fact, they are usually not available outside of the top-10 unless they have other problems, such as they are very raw (Jessiman, Kreider), they were injured, they had a bad season before getting drafted, they are tough to coach headaches, they may not come to the US, etc.

I know everyone wanted the Rangers to draft Stamkos in the fifth round, but that just ain't happening.

When you are drafting in the fifth round, you have to understand that there must have been a reason the mud fell so far down. If you get Marc Savard with a late pick, you don't complain that he is only 5'10.
very astute post, and spot on.

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07-07-2011, 12:19 PM
  #32
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as said the only downside to McC is his size, but to be honest i don't think it will be too much of a deterrent. This kid is feisty, he shows no hesitation dropping the gloves or throwing a hit. He is in the mold of Cally but maybe with a little more of a scoring touch.

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07-07-2011, 12:32 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRangerSince05 View Post
How can he be draft of the century when he didnt even play a game since he was drafted.. Let alone a NHL game...
I'm hoping that the thread title was a bit tongue-in-cheek...

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07-07-2011, 12:35 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
First off, size and grit doesn't equal third line grinder and small doesn't equal top six star.

This argument you keep trying to make won't become more true the more you harp on it.

Kreider wasn't "raw". He had pro size, speed, hands, and shot, and drive, the only concern would be if he would be one dimensional or not. He isn't. He's a legitimate two way player now.

Miller is NOT a third line grinder and the fact you repeatedly assume so means you never seen him play. Miller has SO much more offensive talent and is so much more complete a player then McColgan its not even a debate. Miller has the vision, hands, shot to be a high-end offensive player. He just so happens to have the drive, grit, and two way play that separates him from other players.

Your Grimaldi, McColgan, St. Croix, Bourque, Zuccarello, Dawes players don't go in the first round and/or go undrafted for a reason.

McColgan at 5-8 can play against 16 year olds but when it comes time to play against 20+ year olds is where these guys have a problem. And when theyre not recording a goal per game theyre not contributing.

Kreiders and Millers make it and stick because they can handle and dish out the physical play and have the offensive skill to go with it.

McColgan's chances of reaching the NHL let alone being a steal, are slim to none.

Kreider and Miller chances of reaching the NHL and being a steal are exponentially higher so much it isn't even a debate.
This ^, well said.
There's nothing wrong taking a chance on a guy, especially if its cheap.

But there is an adage in pro sports: usually, the good big man beats the good little man.
IMO, the prototype we should focus on, as a general rule, is Anisimov and complement to extent possible.

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07-07-2011, 01:06 PM
  #35
Jacques Strap
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Originally Posted by JohnCenafearsTheRock View Post
What about St. Croix? I believe he was more highly rated than McColgan was. St. Croix was expected to be a first rounder

I completely agree with this. I like the McColgan pick but I think that ST.Croix may turn out to be the steal of the draft. At the start of last year, people were talking him up in the same sentence as RNH. He has fantastic hands and a very high hockey IQ. He just has to round out his defensive game and pickup his work level. He's from Winnipeg and I'm sure McIlrath will kick his ass in gear.

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07-07-2011, 01:29 PM
  #36
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McColgan and St. Croix were great value picks by Gord & Gort. McColgan plays big and stood out at last weeks prospect camp with speed, jam, and offense. We will get another view of him in August as he was invited to attend the 2011 USA Hockey National Junior Evaluation Camp. Obviously he is a long shot with the big name NDT returnees, the kids from the U18 team and perhaps some bias against Americans playing major junior in Canada. Still, getting the opportunity to attend is an acknowledgment of his potential. He's got a chance....we'll see. Link to the USA camp roster:
http://www.usahockey.com/Template_Us...1_06&ID=304892

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07-07-2011, 02:14 PM
  #37
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You guys wanted boom or bust players and that's exactly what he is. Top 6 forward or Eastern Leaguer.

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07-07-2011, 02:32 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
very astute post, and spot on.
No it isn't. Not even close to spot on.

Guys that have size and grit doesn't make them third line grinders. Guys that are 5-8 and under aren't top six players, either.

Its just flawed logic.

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07-07-2011, 02:47 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
No it isn't. Not even close to spot on.

Guys that have size and grit doesn't make them third line grinders. Guys that are 5-8 and under aren't top six players, either.

Its just flawed logic.
that's not how i read it.

he said ppl will take size over skill at this level, and i tend to agree. especially if the difference in skill isnt super significant but the size differential is. he went on to say everyone would love to take a guy like Stamkos in the 3rd round or whatever, but guys like that, who have size AND skill will go super high for obvious reasons.

but theres a reason bigger guys go before smaller guys who are more skilled, their games translate a hell of a lot better at this level. those smaller guys tend to be homerun swings, every once in a while youll get a MSL, or Gionta or whatever, but for the most part you get guys like Nigel Dawes, fringe players who have talent, but cant translate it up here. its why ive never been super high on MZA, and am super high on a guy like Kreider. Kreider is one of those rare guys that has the entire package, but the size is a HUGE part of it.

the reason we have a lot of grinders on this team is because we pick lower, and when you pick lower you need to pick safer...and those safer, bigger guys tend to be 2nd or 3rd line guys. the super high end skilled short guys are dangerous picks to make.

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07-07-2011, 02:56 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
that's not how i read it.

he said ppl will take size over skill at this level, and i tend to agree. especially if the difference in skill isnt super significant but the size differential is. he went on to say everyone would love to take a guy like Stamkos in the 3rd round or whatever, but guys like that, who have size AND skill will go super high for obvious reasons.

but theres a reason bigger guys go before smaller guys who are more skilled, their games translate a hell of a lot better at this level. those smaller guys tend to be homerun swings, every once in a while youll get a MSL, or Gionta or whatever, but for the most part you get guys like Nigel Dawes, fringe players who have talent, but cant translate it up here. its why ive never been super high on MZA, and am super high on a guy like Kreider. Kreider is one of those rare guys that has the entire package, but the size is a HUGE part of it.

the reason we have a lot of grinders on this team is because we pick lower, and when you pick lower you need to pick safer...and those safer, bigger guys tend to be 2nd or 3rd line guys. the super high end skilled short guys are dangerous picks to make.
And that's why I like the St. Croix and McColgan picks when they were taken. They have the talent that a 1st round pick would have, but their height makes them drop. This team will not be drafting in the top 10 for a while if things go like they should. they are going to need to take some big swings in some of the drafts with later round picks. If even one of them pans out, it's successful. My guess is you'll see the Rangers doing this a lot more often when they have the chance to, just cause they don't have top 10 picks.

Sky is the limit with these kind of picks, but the bottom is unlimited as well with these players. You'll find them either tearing up the ECHL or AHL year in and year out at some point, or tearing up the NHL. There is unlikely to be a middle ground, unless that middle ground is a 60 point player.

Lets also not forget that they signed Audy-Marchssault (sp?) who is also small and dominated the Q this past season. So, you don't only have to use draft picks on these kinds of players, but can find the as undrafted free agents coming out of the CHL or NCAA.

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Old
07-07-2011, 03:09 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
No it isn't. Not even close to spot on.

Guys that have size and grit doesn't make them third line grinders. Guys that are 5-8 and under aren't top six players, either.

Its just flawed logic.
He said people will take the Milan Lucic, size with skill, much sooner over the potential Marc Savard or MSL, who have less size but more skill. Not that the Milan Lucic's and Brandon Dubinsky's of the NHL are unskilled 3rd liners.

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