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Old
07-07-2011, 05:31 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanNistelrooy View Post
Tulupov played in Ontario and in the Q...
This player as well as White, Marchand and Clutterbuck were all drafted in the 3rd round in June 2006.

Tulopov had not played yet in North America. Nor Figren

In 2005-06 season:

Tulopov: Leninogorsk: 8 games- 1g-1a: 2 points 14 min PIM +1

Figren: Frolunda: 2 games 0-0-0-0


White: Calgary - 72 games - 20 goals - 33 assists= 53 points 121 PIM +10

Marchand: Moncton - 68 games- 29 goals -37 assists= 66 points 83 PIM +40

Clutterbuck: Oshawa - 66 games- 35 goals-33 assists=68 points 139 pim -17


Based on stats, who would you have picked ?

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Old
07-07-2011, 05:32 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habitue View Post
This player as well as White, Marchand and Clutterbuck were all drafted in the 3rd round in June 2006.

Tulopov had not played yet in North America. Nor Figren

In 2005-06 season:

Tulopov: Leninogorsk: 8 games- 1g-1a: 2 points 14 min PIM +1

Figren: Frolunda: 2 games 0-0-0-0


White: Calgary - 72 games - 20 goals - 33 assists= 53 points 121 PIM +10

Marchand: Moncton - 68 games- 29 goals -37 assists= 66 points 83 PIM +40

Clutterbuck: Oshawa - 66 games- 35 goals-33 assists=68 points 139 pim -17


Based on stats, who would you have picked ?
Definitely not Marchand...

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07-07-2011, 05:34 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Definitely not Marchand...
Why ? He is definitely the most talented of the three. A solid 2nd liner.

Clutterbuck is a hitting machine. Gritty, industrious third liner

White ? An eternal 4th liner ?

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07-07-2011, 05:34 PM
  #54
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With those stats I would have picked Clutterbuck without a doubt, most goals and most points in less games than Marchand (his +40 indicates that he was on a stacked team).

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07-07-2011, 06:13 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habitue View Post
Why ? He is definitely the most talented of the three. A solid 2nd liner.

Clutterbuck is a hitting machine. Gritty, industrious third liner

White ? An eternal 4th liner ?
Probably a 4th liner that will lose most of his fights. I like the guy, I like that he's willing to fight but he doesn't have much fighting skill.

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07-07-2011, 06:45 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habitue View Post
Why ? He is definitely the most talented of the three. A solid 2nd liner.

Clutterbuck is a hitting machine. Gritty, industrious third liner

White ? An eternal 4th liner ?
Because Marchand was a 5'7" forward putting a point per game in the QMJHL, those are a dime a dozen.

You MUST be the smartest scout in history, using hinsight and all

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Old
07-07-2011, 07:03 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habitue View Post
This player as well as White, Marchand and Clutterbuck were all drafted in the 3rd round in June 2006.

Tulopov had not played yet in North America. Nor Figren

In 2005-06 season:

Tulopov: Leninogorsk: 8 games- 1g-1a: 2 points 14 min PIM +1

Figren: Frolunda: 2 games 0-0-0-0


White: Calgary - 72 games - 20 goals - 33 assists= 53 points 121 PIM +10

Marchand: Moncton - 68 games- 29 goals -37 assists= 66 points 83 PIM +40

Clutterbuck: Oshawa - 66 games- 35 goals-33 assists=68 points 139 pim -17


Based on stats, who would you have picked ?


If that draft happened today the Habs would not pick White. They have learned from past mistakes to not use high picks on poor skaters.

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07-07-2011, 07:08 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habitue View Post
This player as well as White, Marchand and Clutterbuck were all drafted in the 3rd round in June 2006.

Tulopov had not played yet in North America. Nor Figren

In 2005-06 season:

Tulopov: Leninogorsk: 8 games- 1g-1a: 2 points 14 min PIM +1

Figren: Frolunda: 2 games 0-0-0-0


White: Calgary - 72 games - 20 goals - 33 assists= 53 points 121 PIM +10

Marchand: Moncton - 68 games- 29 goals -37 assists= 66 points 83 PIM +40

Clutterbuck: Oshawa - 66 games- 35 goals-33 assists=68 points 139 pim -17


Based on stats, who would you have picked ?
Calgary was a pretty strong defensive-minded team at the time IIRC. So they probably saw him as a fairly safe bet to make the NHL as a serviceable bottom 6 guy, whereas it was unclear whether Marchand could translate his game to the NHL.

I can't say I recall much about Clutterbuck and the Generals that year though.

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Old
07-07-2011, 07:18 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
If that draft happened today the Habs would not pick White. They have learned from past mistakes to not use high picks on poor skaters.
That may be true, but White still address's a team need right now. He's useful & should/could be for 2-3 seasons.

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07-07-2011, 07:29 PM
  #60
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I agree that he should be useful but it really isn't important that we draft players such as this. I like Ryan White but his type really are a dime a dozen.

The draft should be used to try and acquire players with more upside. In todays salary cap era it is important to develop as many skill players as possible. This allows the team to fill high paying roster slots with reasonable contracts.

Players like White can be replaced for close to the league minimum...

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Old
07-07-2011, 07:34 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
I agree that he should be useful but it really isn't important that we draft players such as this. I like Ryan White but his type really are a dime a dozen.

The draft should be used to try and acquire players with more upside. In todays salary cap era it is important to develop as many skill players as possible. This allows the team to fill high paying roster slots with reasonable contracts.

Players like White can be replaced for close to the league minimum...
Yes! These are the kinda guys you draft in round 4 & after, sure you can buy them, they're always for sale. But character is something teams look at also, he seems to have some. The hairs wild, worth the higher pick for that kinda.

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07-07-2011, 07:40 PM
  #62
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Dont screw things up with Ryan White like you did with Gregory Stewart.

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Old
07-07-2011, 07:41 PM
  #63
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White has a good track record and has improved every season. He's carving out his role with the team and he has great leadership... always stands out and seems to lighten the mood on the bench. If he keeps improving over more seasons, we have a very good player on our hands (good penalty killer, too). He could plateau and be 4th liner/13th guy or he might be a fixture on the 3rd line. You have to sign him up to find out.

Also, I don't get the opinion that White wasn't impressive fighting. He stands in there and punches. I love it. He fought Brown, Stoner, and Girlchuck that I remember... and held his own in all of those fights. At the first of the season I would have thought multiple concussions would've been the results.

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Old
07-07-2011, 10:26 PM
  #64
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Don't forget that Ryan White was the best scorer (tied with 2005 draftee Brodie Dupont) on his team during his draft year. Had some conditioning problems but played with tons of heart. Pegged as future 3rd liner.

Brad Marchand was 4th scorer on his team, highest scorer Philippe Dupuis had 108 points, Keith Yandle 84 points. Was tiny (5'7?) and didn't a good attitude (apparently).

Clutterbuck was 3rd behind Tsimikalis (who had 99 points) and John Tavares who was 77. He was a 5'10 guy pegged as a future 3rd line-4th line checker.

It's really easy to scout 5 years after the draft
I think they're all good picks even though Marchand and Clutterbuck are really awesome now. At least Ryan White isn't a bust.
What about the teams that passed on PK Subban....morons?


Last edited by parachutist: 07-07-2011 at 10:39 PM.
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Old
07-07-2011, 10:28 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habitue View Post
Tulopov had not played yet in North America.
I assure you he did, he played in a minor league in Ontario before getting picked in the Q. That's why he played only 8 games in Russia.

EDIT : link : http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/kirill_tulupov

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Old
07-08-2011, 07:06 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parachutist View Post
Don't forget that Ryan White was the best scorer (tied with 2005 draftee Brodie Dupont) on his team during his draft year. Had some conditioning problems but played with tons of heart. Pegged as future 3rd liner.

Brad Marchand was 4th scorer on his team, highest scorer Philippe Dupuis had 108 points, Keith Yandle 84 points. Was tiny (5'7?) and didn't a good attitude (apparently).

Clutterbuck was 3rd behind Tsimikalis (who had 99 points) and John Tavares who was 77. He was a 5'10 guy pegged as a future 3rd line-4th line checker.

It's really easy to scout 5 years after the draft
I think they're all good picks even though Marchand and Clutterbuck are really awesome now. At least Ryan White isn't a bust.
What about the teams that passed on PK Subban....morons?
It's all about the skating with these three players. It is much easier to translate junior scoring success to the pros when skating isn't an issue.

White's poor skating has hurt him as a Pro.

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Old
07-08-2011, 07:18 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
It's all about the skating with these three players. It is much easier to translate junior scoring success to the pros when skating isn't an issue.

White's poor skating has hurt him as a Pro.
Marchand was strong on the puck and agile at 17 but not a great skater for a guy 5'7" or 5'8".

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Old
07-08-2011, 07:20 AM
  #68
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I'd say it's a matter of hockey sense, skill, skating, character and determination

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07-08-2011, 07:24 AM
  #69
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I like Ryan White, he beat up a Bruins ... I like him

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07-08-2011, 08:19 AM
  #70
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IMHO, we hvent seen the best of Ryan White yet.
He's a life long Canadien to date (Draft to now) and I for one, think the kid is just awesome

I think he'll max out as an elite third liner, but that's just me.

Maybe 15 G's, and 20-25 A's in his prime? The kid had beautiful hands in the WHL, IMO that will develop up here as well one day.

I love how gutsy White is. The Boychuk fight was a game changer... The WAY White fight's is momentum changing, and the best art about that is that it's not a style of hockey fighting that can be taught.

I really hope he sticks around. He has the ability to be one heck of a hab.....Honestly he's becoming one of my favourite Canadiens... every level he's played at, there was a gradual improvement.

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07-08-2011, 09:36 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
If that draft happened today the Habs would not pick White. They have learned from past mistakes to not use high picks on poor skaters.
He wasn't a high pick. Some pre-draft rankings had him sneaking into the bottom half of the 1st, but in the end he was available much later and the Habs moved up to secure him as he fell back in the 3rd. He was a great upside pick at that position. They picked other poor skaters this year. And will again. There are all kinds of hockey players with offsetting traits.

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07-08-2011, 09:52 AM
  #72
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IMHO, we hvent seen the best of Ryan White yet.
He's a life long Canadien to date (Draft to now) and I for one, think the kid is just awesome

I think he'll max out as an elite third liner, but that's just me.

Maybe 15 G's, and 20-25 A's in his prime? The kid had beautiful hands in the WHL, IMO that will develop up here as well one day.

I love how gutsy White is. The Boychuk fight was a game changer... The WAY White fight's is momentum changing, and the best art about that is that it's not a style of hockey fighting that can be taught.

I really hope he sticks around. He has the ability to be one heck of a hab.....Honestly he's becoming one of my favourite Canadiens... every level he's played at, there was a gradual improvement.
I agree with you and I love Whity and I can see him being a better in 2 or 3 years from now. PG is in negotiation with his camp and sometime it's about getting the best deal possible for the club(suck for White here)

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07-08-2011, 10:09 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
He wasn't a high pick. Some pre-draft rankings had him sneaking into the bottom half of the 1st, but in the end he was available much later and the Habs moved up to secure him as he fell back in the 3rd. He was a great upside pick at that position. They picked other poor skaters this year. And will again. There are all kinds of hockey players with offsetting traits.
If White plays 10-15 minutes a game and with his intensity, I don't see the skating thing as much of an issue. 75% of our draft picks seem to be good skaters since Timmins took over. Even big guys like Tinordi Beaulieu and Quailer were noted for their skating.

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07-09-2011, 01:51 AM
  #74
Estimated_Prophet
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If White plays 10-15 minutes a game and with his intensity, I don't see the skating thing as much of an issue. 75% of our draft picks seem to be good skaters since Timmins took over. Even big guys like Tinordi Beaulieu and Quailer were noted for their skating.
We went through an embarrassing phase where we drafted for size at the expense of skating (Stevenson, Wilkie, Ryan, Brown, Chouinard, Hossa, Chipchura etc.).

The focus has clearly changed to skating and character.

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