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Eastern conf. tough guys

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Old
09-15-2005, 03:08 PM
  #26
Slewfoot
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Originally Posted by Fletch
I think hockey's changed a bit and there's a bit of lost respect. Guys get away with more. Tyson Nash can go out there and bang anybody he wants, give jabs here and there, and by and large gets away without having to fight - maybe he gets roughed up, but he does it again the next shift. Same with Darcy Tucker, and others. They just keep coming and coming. The enforcer role, I'm thinking, is losing some appeal.
I feel that the enforcer role is not what it once was due to the instigator rule. If the Nashs or Tuckers had to be concerned with answering to the enforcer , they would be less likely to pull the crap that they do. I agree about the loss of respect in the league also. Too many players nowadays take liberties with other players because they know they won't have to answer for it.

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09-15-2005, 03:23 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Fletch
that Langdon did a decent job fighting guys out there, and was considered a heavyweight.

The point about McCarthy is that during the Langdon era everybody whined about our players getting run at. During the McCarthy era, who everybody says puts no fear into anybody, that talk stopped.

OK, that wasn't the point, here's the point: the difference is that during the McCarthy era we weren't worried about a prima donna like Gretzky, or even Lafontaine, or may Leetch to a certain extent. When McCarthy was here there was Leetch, who wasn't really messed with, and McCarthy played with the two midgets, York and Fleury, neither of whom were roughed-up much unless Fleury roughed-up first. There were instances, of course, but not like in the years in which Langdon patrolled the ice. There were instances when Simon was here too - Purinton felt the need to occasionally fight a guy because they were taking liberties, as did Barnaby - so did it stop? No, a couple heavyweights got together and fought it out.

Don't get me wrong, there was a time I thought that heavyweights were a real deterrent - like when Semenko road shotgun to Gretzky (and I love a great fight - but actually liked watching Messier fight since he was genuinely angry when he did it and it wasn't expected). I think hockey's changed a bit and there's a bit of lost respect. Guys get away with more. Tyson Nash can go out there and bang anybody he wants, give jabs here and there, and by and large gets away without having to fight - maybe he gets roughed up, but he does it again the next shift. Same with Darcy Tucker, and others. They just keep coming and coming. The enforcer role, I'm thinking, is losing some appeal. A guy like Simon is actually perfect for it (or was, as I do not believe he fights as much as he used to), as is Laroque, and a few others, who can actually be useful aside from fighting.
I dont think it actually stops guys from taking runs but it certainly cuts down on it. Believe me those teams who have the guys come back and dont get bulldozed by the teams with the Nash's and the Tuckers. The teams that are successul against them are the one's who don't yield momentum.

When you have a team like this that is young and developing confidence, the last thing you need is them feeling like they are going at it alone. Unfortunatly the 5 or 6 runs that aren't taken don't show up on the stat sheet and that is why the enforcer goes undervalued.

I think too many people assume that when a team wants an enforcer that the role is the same as it was 15 years ago. I don't want an enforcer for the old nhl i want an enforcer for this NHL and the Rangers don't have either.

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Old
09-15-2005, 03:25 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slewfoot
I feel that the enforcer role is not what it once was due to the instigator rule. If the Nashs or Tuckers had to be concerned with answering to the enforcer , they would be less likely to pull the crap that they do. I agree about the loss of respect in the league also. Too many players nowadays take liberties with other players because they know they won't have to answer for it.
Never agree with the lose of respect argument. People were saying the same thing 20 years ago with the young cocky Oilers. Just ask the Islanders.

It's an argument that to me is like the trap, it caught on and people think it's a new thing but its really not.

Hearing Paul Coffey say it was hilarious considering his early success was on a team that purposely went out and did whatever it took to win and didn't bow down and respect the dynasties they were seeking to overthrow.

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Old
09-15-2005, 03:28 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
in that, and I don't know if you were going this way, but to me, to have a heavyweight and a bunch of non-physical pansies on a team does squat. To have a team like the Devils and Flyers, and have another guy, it's an exclamation point to team toughness. You don't become tough by having the best fighter.
Regardless, you need fighters even if it's punching bags like Purinton or Barnaby. I know anyone can fight, but that's what we need, someone to command respect. Hell I remember when Worrell was reluctant to fight Fleury for his own sake and Fleury laid him out.

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Old
09-15-2005, 03:52 PM
  #30
Slewfoot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
Never agree with the lose of respect argument. People were saying the same thing 20 years ago with the young cocky Oilers. Just ask the Islanders.

It's an argument that to me is like the trap, it caught on and people think it's a new thing but its really not.

Hearing Paul Coffey say it was hilarious considering his early success was on a team that purposely went out and did whatever it took to win and didn't bow down and respect the dynasties they were seeking to overthrow.
I think there is a big difference between 'bowing down' and 'respecting' your opponent. 20 - 25 years ago there was alot less stickwork and alot less liberties being taken on the star players. In those days even a clean hit on a Bossy or a Gretzky would have resulted in a problem with Semenko or Gillies.

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09-15-2005, 03:54 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Slewfoot
In those days even a clean hit on a Bossy or a Gretzky would have resulted in a problem with Semenko or Gillies.
It was the right thing to do then and the right thing to do now. It sends a terrible message when you allow your top players to be run without retaliation.

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09-15-2005, 04:03 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobMarleyNYR
Regardless, you need fighters even if it's punching bags like Purinton or Barnaby. I know anyone can fight, but that's what we need, someone to command respect. Hell I remember when Worrell was reluctant to fight Fleury for his own sake and Fleury laid him out.
uh, really? is there a clip??

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Old
09-15-2005, 04:10 PM
  #33
Slewfoot
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Originally Posted by True Blue
It was the right thing to do then and the right thing to do now. It sends a terrible message when you allow your top players to be run without retaliation.
Agreed.

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