This will sound odd, but I like Snow, I truly respect the players he's brought in AND got rid of, the focus on character and talent, his ability to manage the cap AND to sign key players to amazingly great contracts - the best GM the team has had in a long time.
I also think he's done a "good job" - despite my rant on another thread a few minutes ago. I trust Snow more than anyone since Torrey.
BUT
It's IMPOSSIBLE to give Snow any props for the perennial lottery finishes.
While it's wonderful to point to Moulson, Grabner, Parenteau, MacDonald, the Wis trade (BOTH PARTS were good trades), getting rid of Tambellini and Schremp were smart moves - etc.
There's been some mistakes as well, but far more positive than negative.
But the on-ice team still sucks horribly.
It's hypocritical to only look at the NUMEROUS positive moves WITHOUT the context of a near-last place finish.
It's naive to point to the NON-MOVES to help the team get better. Some of that is off-season moves, or trades NOT made, or coaches NOT replaced early enough, or injuries NOT replaced or NOT icing a team with enough depth/experience/leadership to overcome adversity/injury or watching the team lost 21 of 22 (or whatever), watching them truly drown, not offering any help.
Would another GM have done something different? Is it possible that some moves would have helped? Some of the non-moves?
Might those non-moves have been Milbury-type moves? God forbid? Just because Milbury was a bad GM (and make no mistake, he was pretty horrible) that doesn't mean that the OPPOSITE of Milbury is any better.
On paper, Milbury was far more successful than Snow, at least the team was.
My point is, there's people that blindly support Snow and people who fiercely oppose him (almost everyone opposes Wang but let's not go there for the moment). The reality is somewhere in the middle....and that middle can mean that we're on our way UP or sideways-down.
But I do know that's it's completely wrong to suggest Snow's done anything great given JUST the standings. Just because he hasn't done anything horrible, doesn't mean he's been great.
Jury's still out.
I agree with this post.
However, all GMs make mistakes. In more times than not, one GMs success is another GMs failure. Professional sports is very competetiive even at the management level. Every GM tries to one up the next GM in the cleanest, most respectful way possible. The fact that there's been more positive than negative makes Snow a good GM.
Snow also seems to have one of the easiest and hardest jobs of all GMs in hockey. It's easy in the sense that he seems to have more job security than any other GM in hockey and that expectation levels are low amongst fans and the media. It's hard because we can't seem to attract UFAs, and Wang losing money may or may not impede how much Garth can spend. Garth has to work extra hard to discover diamonds in the rough because even when he throws money at big name FAs, they seem to spurn the Isles. It has allowed them to get good, cheap talent. Better than other players that are signed to ludicrous deals. However, with premier UFAs still not wanting to come to LI, it's hard to build meaningfully though FA.
Also, we played pretty well after we were all but eliminated from the playoffs. I don't know if this team is as "horrible" as we were at stretches last year. At one point we were as hot as the Devils over a long period of time. I don't want to use injuries as an excuse, but it is a valid one when your team's depth is as strapped as the Isles' is. Streit and KO were huge blows to this team. If they were healthy at the beginning of the season (100 pts of production between the two of them) we may have challenged for a playoff spot. We'll never know.
This season is a fresh start. I have no issue going into this season with the current roster + another top 4 dman and top 6 dman. I think we'll be a lot better than many of us think we're going to be.
Everything is always magnified when things are bad. You mention MM. When teams lose, everybody DEMANDS something be done to improve the team. So things like Luongo/Jokinen for Parrish/Kvasha, and McCabe/Bertuzzi for Linden are done and people are ecstatic because it means there is some kind of CHANGE. Sometimes change never works (as many of MMs moves), other times it works for a few years (Peca/Yashin deals).
Most of the people that HATE snow are those who demand the quick changes and refuse to stomach growing pains, which is fine because we pay money to watch these games.
Most of the people that LOVE snow are those who have become hypersensitive to quick fixes that had buried the team during MMs reign.
I just can't see a better way to build a perennial contender.
Snow also seems to have one of the easiest and hardest jobs of all GMs in hockey. It's easy in the sense that he seems to have more job security than any other GM in hockey and that expectation levels are low amongst fans and the media. It's hard because we can't seem to attract UFAs, and Wang losing money may or may not impede how much Garth can spend. Garth has to work extra hard to discover diamonds in the rough because even when he throws money at big name FAs, they seem to spurn the Isles. It has allowed them to get good, cheap talent. Better than other players that are signed to ludicrous deals. However, with premier UFAs still not wanting to come to LI, it's hard to build meaningfully though FA.
excellent post JP.
Interesting point about Snow's job, I agree with you, it IS both the easiest and the hardest. Trying to navigate your way around an aloof boss with crazy ideas, losing money, erratic behaviour can be a challenge in ANY industry - let alone professional sports!
Quote:
Most of the people that HATE snow are those who demand the quick changes and refuse to stomach growing pains, which is fine because we pay money to watch these games.
Most of the people that LOVE snow are those who have become hypersensitive to quick fixes that had buried the team during MMs reign.
I just can't see a better way to build a perennial contender.
I agree with you that I also don't see a way to build a perennial contender, other than maybe adding some key pieces along the way. I don't believe in the drastic overpayment that it would take on July 1st. Assuming the NYI, if they were part of the bidding, would have had to pay even more than what was already paid by those teams - well that would have been simply a stupid move and I'm thankful Snow didn't do that.
I'd like to see some additions to the roster, I'd like the NYI to spend at least to the MID point of the cap. I think 3-4 NHL players would DRASTICALLY improve this team and then we'll be a playoff team.
I'd like to see a good team.
THIS YEAR.
I felt that way the last two years as well but this year is ideal timing given the development of a good core - Tavares, Okposo, Nielsen, Grabner, Moulson, MacDonald, Streit, Hamonic. As it stands, this team will not make the playoffs unless many stars align, on our team and others in the conference.
I'm comfortable with Reasoner, Bailey, Comeau, Eaton, Jurcina as ancillary players but really think we can improve with 2 solid defensemen and 2 solid forwards.
I'm hopeful Snow can get something done. A Burke-like move (like adding Lombardi AND Franson, Lupul AND Gardiner) is (relatively?) easily something Snow should be able to pull off.
I do know this. Once Tavares is 23, and the other players mature/grow (Strome, Nino - others, possibly) - this will be a special team!
The Isles have had a LOT of young talent flow through the franchise to only be pawned off because ownership didn't want to spend the $$$ (at least that is my opinion on the last 10-15 years for the Isles). Is this ownership team committed to spending what it takes to put and more importantly keep together a group of talented players?
The Isles have had a LOT of young talent flow through the franchise to only be pawned off because ownership didn't want to spend the $$$ (at least that is my opinion on the last 10-15 years for the Isles).
The Islanders were actually middle of the pack from 2000-2005 in terms of payroll. It seems like the team had an internal budget of around 40M during the last decade
The Isles have had a LOT of young talent flow through the franchise to only be pawned off because ownership didn't want to spend the $$$ (at least that is my opinion on the last 10-15 years for the Isles). Is this ownership team committed to spending what it takes to put and more importantly keep together a group of talented players?
Not really. What happened is we'd trade the talent away for a quick fix or someone to put us over the top.
I don't think there's been a pure salary dump under Wang because we didn't want to pay a player (see Yashin and DP for evidence to the opposite, in fact).
The Isles have had a LOT of young talent flow through the franchise to only be pawned off because ownership didn't want to spend the $$$ (at least that is my opinion on the last 10-15 years for the Isles). Is this ownership team committed to spending what it takes to put and more importantly keep together a group of talented players?
I think they're afraid of spending coupled with an owner who probably has a stranglehold on every cent and knows he has to but is acting petulent about it.
They will spend if it makes sense - or if forced to.
Thankfully, Milbury is gone and Snow is competent.
The Islanders were actually middle of the pack from 2000-2005 in terms of payroll. It seems like the team had an internal budget of around 40M during the last decade
I just always assumed some of the bad trades and asset management were ownership driven.
I think they're afraid of spending coupled with an owner who probably has a stranglehold on every cent and knows he has to but is acting petulent about it.
They will spend if it makes sense - or if forced to.
Thankfully, Milbury is gone and Snow is competent.
Well, hopefully the Isles keep on the path they are going now which seems to me in the right direction. My dad grew up in Bellmore and rooted for the Islanders until he moved to NJ when I was born. I always have had a soft spot for the Isles...
I'm not worried. It's NY, a proven market with a history, an arena and a fanbase.
All that's missing isn't a better arena, it's winning.
Funny how that fixes everything. I think the next perpetually terrible team to turn it around is the Detroit Lions. Amazing draft classes, good FA pickups and quality coaching/GM tandem in recent years (post Matt Millen who is their version of Millbury).
It really does man. Nothing about the arena, the circus type reputation that management has or anything would matter if this team was winning. That is the huge key in attracting UFA's here.
And until we're a winner, he's failed - to be cold/blunt.
But I think he'll get us there in time. Just not as fast as, say, Lombardi would or (dreaming) Holland would. Kids were rushed, coaches fired, antics published (not Snow's thenkfully) and so on - the team held itself back and Snow hasn't really done anything substantial to remedy the BAAAADDDDD team image, but I feel he himself has quietly boosted his own.
Well, we have to win or make a solid trade to boost our image now. Snow is unfortunately given the burden of fulfilling this as out bat**** nutjob owner forced him into the role.
some people look at Progress towards a goal as a series of failures in the way of reaching that goal.
others look at that same Progress simply as a series of successes on the way to an ultimate success.
it's funny how often this board comes down to pessimism vs. optimism. I think with Snow, I'm optimistic. I don't think he's the best guy ever, but he's done well with what he's had to work with. I am one of the only people (i think) who actually likes the business saavy he's shown. While he might be a bit rough around the edges, he's not without purpose. I think he's 10X more calculating than MM.
Funny how that fixes everything. I think the next perpetually terrible team to turn it around is the Detroit Lions. Amazing draft classes, good FA pickups and quality coaching/GM tandem in recent years (post Matt Millen who is their version of Millbury).
haha. so true. my brother is a lions/isles fan. ouch. though times could be getting better for him soon. just think- he could've been a wings/giants fan. funny how fandom breaks...
I agree that it is hard to give Snow too much credit considering we have been a bottom feeder throughout his entire tenure, but I still think that overall he has been very smart as the Islanders GM. He hasn't taken risks, which is why the rebuild has taken as long as it has, but that is also why we aren't stuck with any crippling contracts(outside of DP, of course, which seemed to be more Wang than anything).
The only risky move that Snow made thus far was the Smyth trade, which turned out to be a good move. Smyth, while he did bail on us, brought us to the playoffs that year and the futures we sent back haven't amounted to much of anything. Outside of that, Snow has stayed the course with building from within which is what this team needed, IMO. After Milbury traded away countless superstars, I don't see why Islanders fans wouldn't appreciate this approach. I can understand the desire for a UFA here and there, but if the right player isn't there or the price is way too high, I can't fault Snow for standing pat.
That said, think how much further behind in the rebuild we would be if Snow wasn't able to find Moulson, Grabner, Montoya, and most importantly Mark Streit? None of these players were much of anything before coming to the Isles(Moulson looked like a quality AHLer, Montoya a career backup, Streit a PP specialist. Only Grabner looked to still have decent potential but still it's hard to see the potential in a guy who was pretty much given up on by 2 teams at a very early stage in his career). When each of these guys were brought in it was far from front-page news, but each of them are big pieces to this team now and in the future. Considering what Snow has to work with financially and the overall non-desire of UFAs to play on LI, I'd say it is incredibly impressive that Garth has been able to add that kind of talent at the price they are all playing at.
Maybe I'm extremely biased, but in my heart I honestly believe this team will scratch its way into the playoffs next season. If that happens, I think Snow will start throwing money around a little more. Obviously the guys like Tavares and Nielsen need to be re-upped, but don't be surprised if Snow hands out that big contract that everyone has been waiting for. And with a guy like Parise potentially on the market, it couldn't come at a better time.
I can be patient with this regime, because I believe in what they are building. The pieces are all coming together and the system is stocked full of talent. Why set ourselves back by bringing in a guy like Komisarek just for the sake of "doing something?" Snow will look for the right deal, because that is what he has shown he will do based on previous offseasons. Even if he adds no one, it won't change the excitement I have for this team going forward. IMO, I agree with the writer of this article: regardless of where we have been in the standings, Snow has done a great job to this point.
haha. so true. my brother is a lions/isles fan. ouch. though times could be getting better for him soon. just think- he could've been a wings/giants fan. funny how fandom breaks...
I grew up a Jets/Mets fan. I am the toilet paper to Giant/Yankee fans!
That said, think how much further behind in the rebuild we would be if Snow wasn't able to find Moulson, Grabner, Montoya, and most importantly Mark Streit? None of these players were much of anything before coming to the Isles(Moulson looked like a quality AHLer, Montoya a career backup, Streit a PP specialist. een able to add that kind of talent at the price they are all playing at.
Give Snow credit for Streit, the dman that wanted to play d full time. Moulson was a depth signing who played his own way onto the big club. Grabner was a bad move by another GM. Montoya is still a question mark. Snow's bragging about Parenteau being the next Moulson gives you a better idea of his judgement.
Wayy too much credit for Garth on that score.
" after you typed...."Lots of FACT and truth here".
