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Gorges???? (filed for salary arbitration - hearing set for July 28th)

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Old
07-09-2011, 11:04 AM
  #176
ChoseLa
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Gorges was chiping in offensivly last season before his injury aggarvated.

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07-09-2011, 11:18 AM
  #177
Chris Cutter
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
I'd say he has a similar impact on a team as a guy like Gill. Both are defensive minded dman with no offenseno physicality but with good leadership intangibles. One is a UFA the other isn't. But you can say that on a 3-4-5 years deal you're buying some of Gorges UFA years. They should get about the same amount of money as far as I'm concerned. Gorges doesn't deserve anywhere near 3M. If Columbus wants to be retarded it's their prerogative but we shouldn't have to be.
This isn't aimed towards you but this ain't the first time where I see someone on these boards mention that Josh Gorges brings no offensive game to this team, something I disagree on. Josh Gorges brings just as much (if not more at this point) offense to this team than Jaroslav 'Considered an offensive defenseman because I'm not good defensively anymore' Spacek. Josh Gorges has proven in the past that he can produce offensively when given the opportunity, he had 59 pts in 54 GP as a 19 year old. But he's also produced in the NHL before, during the disaster that the 2008-2009 season (the breakout of Lappy and Gorges were some of the few positives that season) for the reasons we all know, Gorges had 23 pts. That's 2 more pts than what Spacek had in his first season with Montreal.

Gorges if given the correct role on this team and the correct partner (somebody else than Gill who automatically handicaps any defenseman's offensive game) he could fix the hole left by Hamrlik's departure.

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07-09-2011, 11:35 AM
  #178
Des Louise
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Originally Posted by Chris Cutter View Post
This isn't aimed towards you but this ain't the first time where I see someone on these boards mention that Josh Gorges brings no offensive game to this team, something I disagree on. Josh Gorges brings just as much (if not more at this point) offense to this team than Jaroslav 'Considered an offensive defenseman because I'm not good defensively anymore' Spacek. Josh Gorges has proven in the past that he can produce offensively when given the opportunity, he had 59 pts in 54 GP as a 19 year old. But he's also produced in the NHL before, during the disaster that the 2008-2009 season (the breakout of Lappy and Gorges were some of the few positives that season) for the reasons we all know, Gorges had 23 pts. That's 2 more pts than what Spacek had in his first season with Montreal.

Gorges if given the correct role on this team and the correct partner (somebody else than Gill who automatically handicaps any defenseman's offensive game) he could fix the hole left by Hamrlik's departure.
All ridiculous arguments no offense.

First you say he brings as much as Spacek who brings none. I actually agree with you if that's your point. I never claimed he was worse than Spacek, but being equal to Spacek is not an accomplishment considering Spacek is 50 and playing on his wrong side.

Second, you say he put up pts as a 19 yo in the WHL. Nearly 99% of all NHL players, even some goons were able to put up pts in junior. It means very little.

23 pts doesn't mean much either. Any dman can get that in a career year.

I watched the games, and Gill/Spacek/Gorges bring about the same type of offense, which is none. Gorges doesn't have a good shot, he doesn't skate like the wind (maybe because of his knee) and he doesn't have an amazing first pass either. All of this leads to him being a defensive dman.

Now, it's entirely possible that he comes back as a transformed player as a result of his knee finally getting fixed. So all of the things I have said about Gorges have to be seen from an angle of Gorges playing on one knee. I'm actually kind of impressed about what he has been capable of doing considering what he was going through so my opinion is subject to change. BUT, as of right now, with what he has done with the habs... he's not worth 3M/per unless it's really true that his training habits were affected and that he'll come back a transformed player capable of bringing offense to the table as well as solid defensive play. Then yeah 3M/per I'd be fine with. But we don't know yet whether that will be the case or not.


Last edited by Des Louise: 07-09-2011 at 11:42 AM.
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07-09-2011, 11:39 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Chris Cutter View Post
This isn't aimed towards you but this ain't the first time where I see someone on these boards mention that Josh Gorges brings no offensive game to this team, something I disagree on. Josh Gorges brings just as much (if not more at this point) offense to this team than Jaroslav 'Considered an offensive defenseman because I'm not good defensively anymore' Spacek. Josh Gorges has proven in the past that he can produce offensively when given the opportunity, he had 59 pts in 54 GP as a 19 year old. But he's also produced in the NHL before, during the disaster that the 2008-2009 season (the breakout of Lappy and Gorges were some of the few positives that season) for the reasons we all know, Gorges had 23 pts. That's 2 more pts than what Spacek had in his first season with Montreal.

Gorges if given the correct role on this team and the correct partner (somebody else than Gill who automatically handicaps any defenseman's offensive game) he could fix the hole left by Hamrlik's departure.
He was actually chipping in offensively but he had some powerplay time with Hamrlik. I imagine the first PP unit will be Markov and Subban but there's a question mark on the 2nd PP unit. Spacek / Weber / Gorges ??????

To be an offensive minded d-man takes more energy than being a laid back type like Gill who redefines the word passive. It's yet to be seen whether Gorges can sustain that energy by being offensive and defensive. He may have to though to fill that void.

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07-09-2011, 11:51 AM
  #180
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Gorges should play with PK,Gill should play less minutes,between 16-20 minutes max.

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07-09-2011, 12:12 PM
  #181
Chris Cutter
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
All ridiculous arguments no offense.

First you say he brings as much as Spacek who brings none. I actually agree with you if that's your point. I never claimed he was worse than Spacek, but being equal to Spacek is not an accomplishment considering Spacek is 50 and playing on his wrong side.

Second, you say he put up pts as a 19 yo in the WHL. Nearly 99% of all NHL players, even some goons were able to put up pts in junior. It means very little.

23 pts doesn't mean much either. Any dman can get that in a career year.

I watched the games, and Gill/Spacek/Gorges bring about the same type of offense, which is none. Gorges doesn't have a good shot, he doesn't skate like the wind (maybe because of his knee) and he doesn't have an amazing first pass either. All of this leads to him being a defensive dman.

Now, it's entirely possible that he comes back as a transformed player as a result of his knee finally getting fixed. So all of the things I have said about Gorges have to be seen from an angle of Gorges playing on one knee. I'm actually kind of impressed about what he has been capable of doing considering what he was going through so my opinion is subject to change. BUT, as of right now, with what he has done with the habs... he's not worth 3M/per unless it's really true that his training habits were affected and that he'll come back a transformed player capable of bringing offense to the table as well as solid defensive play. Then yeah 3M/per I'd be fine with. But we don't know yet whether that will be the case or not.
No offense taken, the reason why I mentionned Spacek was when Bob Gainey, acquired his services it was for his offensive game. My point being that we had a defenseman in our organization that could bring the same type of offensive production while being solid defensively and much cheaper (and much more mobile).

As for 23 pts possibly being a career year for Gorges, it's interesting to note that in 2008-2009 he only played an average of 1:10 on the PP that season. Let's say we give the minutes that Hamrlik had on the second wave (an average of 2:33 minutes a game on the PP, which is more than double the time Gorges got in his most productive season in the NHL). I wouldn't be surprised to see Gorges crack the 30 pts plateau.

What's also interesting is that in 2008-2009, Gorges two most common partner at Even Strenght on defense were Andrei Markov and Roman Hamrlik, two defensemen that are good offensively. I can only assume that if we pair Gorges with Markov/Subban or even Weber, he could demonstrate his offensive game.

I agree for the part where we both don't know how bad Gorges' injury has affected him in the past years, we can only speculate like we're doing here right now if it will make his offensive game better.

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07-09-2011, 01:26 PM
  #182
Des Louise
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Originally Posted by Chris Cutter View Post
As for 23 pts possibly being a career year for Gorges, it's interesting to note that in 2008-2009 he only played an average of 1:10 on the PP that season. Let's say we give the minutes that Hamrlik had on the second wave (an average of 2:33 minutes a game on the PP, which is more than double the time Gorges got in his most productive season in the NHL). I wouldn't be surprised to see Gorges crack the 30 pts plateau.
By career year I mean that he was in the right spot at the right time to put up a lot of points. I mean career year number wise.

Also, putting up a lot of pts doesn't necessarily mean you're good offensively.

Can you believe guys like Sopel and Mara have had 40+ pts seasons in the dead puck era ? And tbh, they had good shots, something Gorges hasn't shown yet.

So if you tell me Gorges has offense because he has potential to put up 30 pts in an ideal scenario, that won't change my opinion of Gorges. Any dman can put up 30 pts in ideal circumstances ie a really solid partner on the other side, lots of PP time, getting secondary assists from talented forwards, etc.

Quote:
What's also interesting is that in 2008-2009, Gorges two most common partner at Even Strenght on defense were Andrei Markov and Roman Hamrlik, two defensemen that are good offensively. I can only assume that if we pair Gorges with Markov/Subban or even Weber, he could demonstrate his offensive game.
Well that would explain why he put up so more points than usual. If you play with Markov and a younger Hammer, you're going to get points automatically.

Quote:
I agree for the part where we both don't know how bad Gorges' injury has affected him in the past years, we can only speculate like we're doing here right now if it will make his offensive game better.
It could definitely have a positive impact but my point is that I'd rather see the habs sign him for what he has done, than sign him based on something that is completely hypothetical.

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Old
07-11-2011, 06:50 PM
  #183
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Anyone know the date of his hearing ?

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07-11-2011, 06:53 PM
  #184
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July 28

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07-11-2011, 06:58 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
July 28
Much appreciated, man!

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