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[VAN/FLA] Canucks trade F Sergei Shirokov to Florida F Mike Duco

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07-09-2011, 04:23 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by NFITO View Post
#1 GF team
#1 PP team
Back to back Art Ross winners.

If AV is stifling the team's offense we must have the talent to blow out the 80's Oilers if we had a coach who could actually work with offensive talent!
Is Vigneault going to put the Sedins, Kesler, Edler and Ehrhoff in the press box?

It's not that Vigneault doesn't allow his star players to dress, it's that his decisions on depth positions will always lean towards the safest, least upside players he can get his hands on. The only part of the roster where decisions need to be made on who dresses and who sits is in the 6 hole on the backend and the 4th line. The 4th line has been an abject failure every year under AV and he has to take some responsibility for that. Zero goals in 25 games from the 4th line also falls directly at his feet.

Sergei Shirokov scored a goal in his first NHL game. He was rewarded by playing 5:00 the next night and never given another look at the NHL level. That's a problem. Especially considering the team was in a huge offensive slump at the time and couldn't score goals.

There's certainly an issue with Vigneault's decisions on the depth portion of this team and that can't be overlooked just because there are elite players at the top end of the roster doing ALL the scoring.

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07-09-2011, 04:27 PM
  #52
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Only on hfboards would someone be upset about getting a potential NHL player for a player that's going to be in Russia for the next three years.
Pretty much. And apart from some flashes of puck skills, I really do not understand the love affair with Sergei Shirokov. He had pee-wee level strength on his feet and was shoved around way too easily. I'll be shocked if he pans out as an NHL calibre player.

Duco seems like a decent tweener, his scouting report doesn't read that much different from Pinizzotto's. But nice to get a physical gamer to potentially play the fourth line/patrol the Wolves.

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07-09-2011, 04:28 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Is Vigneault going to put the Sedins, Kesler, Edler and Ehrhoff in the press box?

It's not that Vigneault doesn't allow his star players to dress, it's that his decisions on depth positions will always lean towards the safest, least upside players he can get his hands on. The only part of the roster where decisions need to be made on who dresses and who sits is in the 6 hole on the backend and the 4th line. The 4th line has been an abject failure every year under AV and he has to take some responsibility for that. Zero goals in 25 games from the 4th line also falls directly at his feet.

Sergei Shirokov scored a goal in his first NHL game. He was rewarded by playing 5:00 the next night and never given another look at the NHL level. That's a problem. Especially considering the team was in a huge offensive slump at the time and couldn't score goals.

There's certainly an issue with Vigneault's decisions on the depth portion of this team and that can't be overlooked just because there are elite players at the top end of the roster doing ALL the scoring.
amen.

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07-09-2011, 04:32 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Is Vigneault going to put the Sedins, Kesler, Edler and Ehrhoff in the press box?

It's not that Vigneault doesn't allow his star players to dress, it's that his decisions on depth positions will always lean towards the safest, least upside players he can get his hands on. The only part of the roster where decisions need to be made on who dresses and who sits is in the 6 hole on the backend and the 4th line. The 4th line has been an abject failure every year under AV and he has to take some responsibility for that. Zero goals in 25 games from the 4th line also falls directly at his feet.

Sergei Shirokov scored a goal in his first NHL game. He was rewarded by playing 5:00 the next night and never given another look at the NHL level. That's a problem. Especially considering the team was in a huge offensive slump at the time and couldn't score goals.

There's certainly an issue with Vigneault's decisions on the depth portion of this team and that can't be overlooked just because there are elite players at the top end of the roster doing ALL the scoring.
Oh boy.

1) Shirokov did not score in his "1st NHL Game". First game this year, yes. But he played 6 games the year before after making the team out of training camp, too. Apart from his 1 solitary NHL goal, he was easily outmuscled and spent most of his time swimming on the ice for the sum total of his 8 games of NHL action.

2) Tell me which forwards in our top six that any of Schroeder, Shiorkov, Hodgson or the like deserved to take the place of? Or in the top 9 for that matter? Not one of those guys was better suited to play there than the Twins, Burrows, Kesler, Raymond, Samuelsson, Hansen, Torres or Malhotra.

I completely disagree with the notion that there's issues with AV working the depth on this team. Guys like Schroeder and Shirokov simply weren't suited for a fourth line role, and weren't deserving of anything bigger than that. It's that simple.

I find it absolutely ridiculous that after guys like Bieksa, Edler, Burrows, Kesler, Raymond, Hansen and Schneider developed under AV's watch that there are still people questioning whether he's any good at developing our youth. He's a Jack Adams winner and has been a finalist two other times, and he also happened to steer this team to the Stanley Cup Final. The grass is always greener.

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07-09-2011, 04:42 PM
  #55
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I completely disagree with the notion that there's issues with AV working the depth on this team.
Then you haven't paid attention to what his 4th line has been doing in relation to other top teams 4th lines. Vigneault has consistently gotten absolutely nothing out of his 4th line, offensively and defensively. The best team in the NHL was in the running for having the worst line in hockey and that is an issue. Especially since it happened the year previous as well.

The top end of the roster takes care of itself and the cream rises to the top. The only area where there's deliberation on who sits and who plays is at the very bottom of the roster and that's where the Canucks have been consistently abhorrent under AV. You don't just sweep that under the rug because hard working players like Kesler, Burrows and Hansen have developed well. Not if you don't want to keep repeating the same mistakes every year that is...

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07-09-2011, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
...

2) Tell me which forwards in our top six that any of Schroeder, Shiorkov, Hodgson or the like deserved to take the place of? Or in the top 9 for that matter? Not one of those guys was better suited to play there than the Twins, Burrows, Kesler, Raymond, Samuelsson, Hansen, Torres or Malhotra.

I completely disagree with the notion that there's issues with AV working the depth on this team. Guys like Schroeder and Shirokov simply weren't suited for a fourth line role, and weren't deserving of anything bigger than that. It's that simple.

I find it absolutely ridiculous that after guys like Bieksa, Edler, Burrows, Kesler, Raymond, Hansen and Schneider developed under AV's watch that there are still people questioning whether he's any good at developing our youth. He's a Jack Adams winner and has been a finalist two other times, and he also happened to steer this team to the Stanley Cup Final. The grass is always greener.
2) Noone is suggesting these players take over a top six spot. But if AV had actually played his 4th line we might have been able to give our younger players a look.

I have shown before that only Raymond and Hansen were actually given a chance to play by AV. The rest received their first fruitful years at the NHL level under Crawford.

This is the risk that AV will not take and has led to many questioning his ability to develop young offensive talent. It's easy to play guys like Burrows and Kesler who are workers and have already shown they can play at least one season in the NHL.

AV seems unwilling to find out exactly how good our young offensive talent is. If he is such a good teaching coach as many claim, why can't he bring these youngsters along? Were Desbiens, Bolduc and their ilk any more battle-tested at the NHL level?

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07-09-2011, 04:53 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Then you haven't paid attention to what his 4th line has been doing in relation to other top teams 4th lines. Vigneault has consistently gotten absolutely nothing out of his 4th line, offensively and defensively. The best team in the NHL was in the running for having the worst line in hockey and that is an issue. Especially since it happened the year previous as well.
I have been paying attention to what the fourth line has been doing in relation to other teams' top lines. Is it perfect? No. But I remain unconvinced that putting a smattering of offensively talented rookies into a fourth line role when they haven't yet developed one or more of a defensive conscience, strength on the puck, the speed of the NHL game or the ability to think at the pace of the NHL game, is any sort of improvement over that.

Quote:
The top end of the roster takes care of itself and the cream rises to the top. The only area where there's deliberation on who sits and who plays is at the very bottom of the roster and that's where the Canucks have been consistently abhorrent under AV. You don't just sweep that under the rug because hard working players like Kesler, Burrows and Hansen have developed well. Not if you don't want to keep repeating the same mistakes every year that is...
Same mistakes every year? You mean like having the best record in hockey and reaching the Stanley Cup Final? I'll take that any day of the week.

It is simply unrealistic and harmful to the development of players if we take every top prospects we have and, rather than have them playing top-line roles on the farm, play them 5-minutes-a-night at the pro level. And before anyone says "play them more than 5 minutes a night" they need to prove that they are capable of that.

The only player on the farm who--to me--looked capable of more than 5 minutes a night was Cody Hodgson. I saw nothing in Shirokov that made me feel he was worthy of getting gratuitous amounts of ice-time, and Jordan Schroeder could barely keep pace in the AHL this year, much less the NHL.

Every team needs some role players and grinders. Guys like Alex Bolduc shouldn't have sniffed the Canucks' lineup, I agree--but AV can only work with the personnel he was given by Mike Gillis, and with the other options being some combination of guys like Hodgson, Rypien, Bolduc, Perreault or Bliznak, he went more often than not with the guy who probably filled the role best before Lapierre arrived, and that was Bolduc, although Hodgson got his audition before that trade was made.

Plenty of farmhands saw time this year, we are not a bottom feeding team anymore that needs to spoon feed huge minutes to unproven rookies to be successful. They need to earn it and they will continue to do so.

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07-09-2011, 04:54 PM
  #58
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Sounds like he's not actually very good at hockey...I fully expect him to be a new AV favourite.
Well done

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07-09-2011, 04:55 PM
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People constantly overlook a main reason why AV got nothing out of the 4th line - we had no cap space to sign anyone good for that long. Is it a coicidence the 4th line looked so much better when Malhotra made a cameo there at the end of the season? Look at the pile of crap on that line all of the last couple of seasons, and then look at where most of those guys are now. I'll give you a hint - not on the team.

The team with the salary cap was constructed to have a deep top nine and roll a very deep defense, and then work on the 4th line at the deadline. Unfortunately, injuries to Sammy and Malhotra ruined that.

As for the actual trade, I don't really care. Shirokov shouldve been moved earlier, but I wasn't even that upset when it was rumoured he wasn't qualified. A few people wanted to wait another 3 years for him when he's close to 30? Come on.

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07-09-2011, 05:10 PM
  #60
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2) Noone is suggesting these players take over a top six spot. But if AV had actually played his 4th line we might have been able to give our younger players a look.

I have shown before that only Raymond and Hansen were actually given a chance to play by AV. The rest received their first fruitful years at the NHL level under Crawford.

This is the risk that AV will not take and has led to many questioning his ability to develop young offensive talent. It's easy to play guys like Burrows and Kesler who are workers and have already shown they can play at least one season in the NHL.

AV seems unwilling to find out exactly how good our young offensive talent is. If he is such a good teaching coach as many claim, why can't he bring these youngsters along? Were Desbiens, Bolduc and their ilk any more battle-tested at the NHL level?
I am not stating that Desbiens and Bolduc were any more battle tested at the NHL level, but they were brought in to play roles. There was never any delusion that Bolduc or Desbiens would translate into anything better than marginal grinders at best. There is only so much ice-time to go around, however, and that was split between the top 9. Again, with so many complaints already about the Twins getting less than 20 minutes a game, who do you take ice-time from (on last year's team) to give more to the fourth line? And again, which gritty player do you sacrifice from a lineup that many were chastising for its lack of grit after the playoffs to give ice-time to these guys?

There is no un-willingness to find out how good our offensive talent is. It's a multi-step process--prove it at the AHL, prove it consistently in the NHL, get the role. Michael Grabner is a prime example of a guy who paid his dues, got his shot on the big club, and stuck for the rest of the season. (unfortunately he was dealt in the off-season, but nevertheless).

Shirokov, in none of his NHL action, looked anywhere close to as strong as Grabner did. Consequently, he was sent back to the AHL. he simply was not a good enough player to make the Canucks.

Again, the only player who saw any action with the big club this year (from the forward group) who showed any kind of potential was Hodgson, and he received some fourth line time in the playoffs to the tune of 12 games. Brad Marchand only played 20 games in his first pro season, and Hodgson played that combined between the playoffs and regular season. IMO, he will also get the chance to show he's got more to give this fall, given that Raymond will likely start the season on the IR.

And the notion that AV "only gave Raymond and Hansen" a chance to play is silly. Burrows was forced to pay his dues and was then given plum minutes by AV, to which he responded in spades. Kesler started as a third-fourth line player under AV, and gradually worked his way up to star status. Edler started as a bottom line defensemen...so and and so on. Plenty of the core members of this team rose to prominence under AV's watch, and I can't believe he is getting so many questions over his handling of a marginal offensive prospect.

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07-09-2011, 05:15 PM
  #61
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People constantly overlook a main reason why AV got nothing out of the 4th line - we had no cap space to sign anyone good for that long. Is it a coicidence the 4th line looked so much better when Malhotra made a cameo there at the end of the season? Look at the pile of crap on that line all of the last couple of seasons, and then look at where most of those guys are now. I'll give you a hint - not on the team.

The team with the salary cap was constructed to have a deep top nine and roll a very deep defense, and then work on the 4th line at the deadline. Unfortunately, injuries to Sammy and Malhotra ruined that.
Exactly, had we had cap space this season we'd have re-signed Torres and signed Rupp.

Torres Lapierre Rupp = bomb ass 4th line, and do what a 4th should be able to, crunching body checks, high energy, play decent offense, and can pk/forecheck with aplomb. But alas we can't afford to do that.

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07-09-2011, 05:15 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
The only player on the farm who--to me--looked capable of more than 5 minutes a night was Cody Hodgson. I saw nothing in Shirokov that made me feel he was worthy of getting gratuitous amounts of ice-time, and Jordan Schroeder could barely keep pace in the AHL this year, much less the NHL.
I just disagree with AV's fundamental belief of what a 4th line should be. He seems to want to run with 2 scoring lines, a checking line and a turd line. IMO championship teams shouldn't have a turd line. You need at least 1 player on every line that can skate, stickhandle and advance the puck through the neutral zone - AV doesn't seem to care to have anyone on his 4th line that can accomplish this and that's why he's always icing one of, if not the worst 4th line in hockey.

Whether it's Bolduc over Morrison, Volpatti over Shirokov or Tanner Glass over Cody Hodgson and Jeff Tambellini in the playoffs, they were all glaring mistakes IMO. I understand you want a certain element on your 4th line but there should always be a roster spot for 1 guy with an NHL skillset.

I just don't think you can get away with 3 useless hockey players on one line in today's game if you're aspiring to be a championship team - regardless of how many hits they throw. Hopefully Vigneault evolves and we see changes next season. I have a feeling we will. You just can't go 25 games without a single goal from your 4th line and think you're going about things the right way...

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07-09-2011, 05:18 PM
  #63
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Meet the new Tanner Glass. Somebody needs to stand up and get punched on this team so that Daniel Sedin doesn't have to.
LOL. It's true.

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07-09-2011, 05:27 PM
  #64
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Oh boy.

1) Shirokov did not score in his "1st NHL Game". First game this year, yes. But he played 6 games the year before after making the team out of training camp, too. Apart from his 1 solitary NHL goal, he was easily outmuscled and spent most of his time swimming on the ice for the sum total of his 8 games of NHL action.
And that is pertinent, why? Shirokov looked way in over his head in his first stint, yes. But he went back down to the farm for a year and a half before he got another cup of coffee. During that time he worked on rounding out his game and addressing the criticisms AV leveled at his game. He was doing that, 'developing' thing that this organization preaches.

So when he comes up and looks good in his first game of this past season, scores a goal and generates a number of shots/chances, what does it matter that he didn't look good the year before that, before any of the development and growth he undertook as a player? Does that work he put in and the offensive spark he provided in his first game not earn him a small measure more leeway than he got in his second game of the season where he was outmuscled a couple times and immediately stapled to the bench, then sent right back down the the AHL?

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07-09-2011, 05:28 PM
  #65
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I am not stating that Desbiens and Bolduc were any more battle tested at the NHL level, but they were brought in to play roles. There was never any delusion that Bolduc or Desbiens would translate into anything better than marginal grinders at best. There is only so much ice-time to go around, however, and that was split between the top 9. Again, with so many complaints already about the Twins getting less than 20 minutes a game, who do you take ice-time from (on last year's team) to give more to the fourth line ? And again, which gritty player do you sacrifice from a lineup that many were chastising for its lack of grit after the playoffs to give ice-time to these guys?
Tanner ****ing Glass, that's who.

In the cup finals the guy went 4 and a half games between touching the puck, was a non-factor physically and running around in his own zone turning pucks over and getting nothing accomplished fom game 1 of the playoffs 'til his final game. It was ridiculous Vigneault kept him in the lineup over guys like Tambellini and Hodgson when the Canucks couldn't score goals throughout the entire playoffs, not to mention the least goals for in the finals since the invention of the sport.

When you lead the playoffs in hits by a wide margin and score the fewest goals maybe that's a sign that you need to get away from the safe choice and look for somebody who can step in and provide what the team is lacking. How does that not happen?

Jeff Tambellini accomplished more in his 1st playoff game than Tanner Glass did in 2 years as a Canuck. The fact he didn't supplant Glass from his roster spot has to be seen as poor decision making IMO. If you don't see that, we'll have to agree to disagree.

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07-09-2011, 05:38 PM
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I'm not going to lie, I wasn't happy when Rypien signed with the Jets. Maybe this guy will earn his way into my heart.

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07-09-2011, 05:41 PM
  #67
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I've already side-tracked this thread enough with the AV discussion; suffice to say we'll agree to disagree.

I like the trade. Duco may actually have something of a future with the organization, be it as a bit player in the NHL or a 2nd/3rd liner in the AHL.

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07-09-2011, 05:54 PM
  #68
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And that is pertinent, why? Shirokov looked way in over his head in his first stint, yes. But he went back down to the farm for a year and a half before he got another cup of coffee. During that time he worked on rounding out his game and addressing the criticisms AV leveled at his game. He was doing that, 'developing' thing that this organization preaches.

So when he comes up and looks good in his first game of this past season, scores a goal and generates a number of shots/chances, what does it matter that he didn't look good the year before that, before any of the development and growth he undertook as a player? Does that work he put in and the offensive spark he provided in his first game not earn him a small measure more leeway than he got in his second game of the season where he was outmuscled a couple times and immediately stapled to the bench, then sent right back down the the AHL?
This. I would agree with sending Shirokov back down if he had not shown any improvement in his game since his first stint in the NHL. One can see that his offensive game improved, he was working harder, and he didn't show any mental lapses in playing defense in his first game back that season. That 1 game should've warranted a few more games for a better evaluation of his progress. We shouldn't be writing him off because he looked like garbage the first time around and at the start of training camp because players can improve, and Shirokov showed many signs of improvement the second time around.

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07-09-2011, 06:03 PM
  #69
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Looks like a decent trade

Shirokov had some real good spurts with the Moose and probably should have been given more of chance. For those of you saying Shirokov was not gritty enough I say you don't know what you are talking about. He went into traffic and was sturdy enough to give and take a hit. He played in close quarters very well at the AHL level. Shirokov, however, was marginal at the NHL level because he lacked speed from the blue line to the net and seemed to tire at times and fall into big periods of drought. When on his game was very good on the cycle in the offensive end but was never someone who could bust past you in open ice. Shirokov had to make it as top 6 player and this was never much of a certainty.

If Shirokov had been moved earlier then the Canucks might have gotten more for him. However, at this point you are glad to get anything back. Getting Duco is, I would say, a decent return at this point.

Thing I like about Duco is that he reminds me very much of Scott Walker. They are both good skaters, real physical and fearless in their play and both have and had showed a capacity to score. It was at the same point in his career that Walker left Vancouver and his career began to blossom. Not saying this happens for Duco but there is as much potential for this to happen than Shirokov busting out and becoming a top 6 player.

For those demanding the Canucks get grittier it is happening. Instead of getting the usual, and perhaps used up scrappers (such as Hordichuk) they are getting upper level AHL players who may be on the cusp of breaking thru. Whether this will work or not, or whether the Canucks are any better, is an open question. Yet, it now seems obvious that the Canucks had too much finesse (Shirkov, Grabner, Raymond, Samuelsson, etc) and too little grit and that imbalance is now being changed.

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07-09-2011, 06:12 PM
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Sergei Shirokov scored a goal in his first NHL game. He was rewarded by playing 5:00 the next night and never given another look at the NHL level. That's a problem. Especially considering the team was in a huge offensive slump at the time and couldn't score goals.
Uh, not really.

And after Shirokov was sent back to the AHL, the Canucks continued to suffer from the removal of his high-end skill.

No wait, they averaged 4 goals per game for the next 9 games, and went 7-1-1. Bad Vigneault!

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07-09-2011, 06:14 PM
  #71
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I just disagree with AV's fundamental belief of what a 4th line should be. He seems to want to run with 2 scoring lines, a checking line and a turd line. IMO championship teams shouldn't have a turd line. You need at least 1 player on every line that can skate, stickhandle and advance the puck through the neutral zone - AV doesn't seem to care to have anyone on his 4th line that can accomplish this and that's why he's always icing one of, if not the worst 4th line in hockey.

Whether it's Bolduc over Morrison, Volpatti over Shirokov or Tanner Glass over Cody Hodgson and Jeff Tambellini in the playoffs, they were all glaring mistakes IMO. I understand you want a certain element on your 4th line but there should always be a roster spot for 1 guy with an NHL skillset.

I just don't think you can get away with 3 useless hockey players on one line in today's game if you're aspiring to be a championship team - regardless of how many hits they throw. Hopefully Vigneault evolves and we see changes next season. I have a feeling we will. You just can't go 25 games without a single goal from your 4th line and think you're going about things the right way...
Well what NHL skillset should a 4th liner have? The ability to skate? The ability to hit? The ability to grind it out in the corners? The ability to play 8-12 minutes a game without hurting the team?

I don't think AV has the wrong fundamental belief of what a 4th line should be. Besides, Gillis likely has more input on what the makeup of the 4th line than AV has. I'm a bit old school in the way that I like my 4th line to be a crash and bang line whose role is to provide energy, wear out the other team, and kill time. If the 4th line can log more than 10-12 minutes without hurting the team that's a bonus. If the 4th line happens to score, that's a bonus. The problem of course is that AV hasn't had a 4th line who can go out there and log minutes without wearing out our team's Dmen.

With that said, in today's NHL, you can't just have goons on your 4th line. You need guys who can skate and who are skilled enough to play the game at the speed of today's NHL. Think Oreskovich in the playoffs. He was out there hitting everything that moved. That's the type of 4th liner I want. Not Brendan Morrison or Shirokov.

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07-09-2011, 06:14 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
And the notion that AV "only gave Raymond and Hansen" a chance to play is silly. Burrows was forced to pay his dues and was then given plum minutes by AV, to which he responded in spades. Kesler started as a third-fourth line player under AV, and gradually worked his way up to star status. Edler started as a bottom line defensemen...so and and so on. Plenty of the core members of this team rose to prominence under AV's watch, and I can't believe he is getting so many questions over his handling of a marginal offensive prospect.

AV has developed a very clear profile as a 'developmental coach'. Everyone knows what to expect from a 'skill' player 'graduated' by AV at the NHL-level. When it works, the results are outstanding. We get well-rounded, responsible, 2-way players who become core members of the team.

The issue is with the failures, when his methods don't really work. Shirokov is just one example of a player who for whatever reason, did not fit AV's mold for a skilled player. And i think it's important not to gloss over his failures just because his successes shine so brightly.

Then there's a guy like Grabner, who i think that falls under the category of a failure by AV. It's hard to say AV really molded Grabner into the player he is today, simply by having him sent down to the farm to develop under other coaches, and tossing him the occasional 4th line shift now and then. Beyond that, it seemed as though AV did not fully recognize the upside there or the potential pace at which he could progress. As most will agree, there was no way Grabner would've had the breakout year he did if here were still in Vancouver under AV. Part of that is down to depth, sure. But at the same time...when is the last time we saw a rookie step in and score 35goals under AV? yeah... I think seeing how AV manages Hodgson's development next year is going to be very telling. Not that i'm expecting anything like 35goals, but to see what sort of leeway he is given and the opportunities he gets to showcase his skill will indicate a lot about AV's willingness to adapt to the pace at which a prospect is capable of developing, rather than adhering to his own preordained schedule.

Basically, i don't think you can really say that AV is a phenomenal developmental coach when it comes to grooming young offensive players, and there are certainly things to criticize there, but i don't think it's fair to say he's completely clueless either. He just has a very set approach to developing skilled players that is almost 'boom or bust' in nature, and very time-consuming because it seems to happen on a fairly rigidly 'set' schedule somewhat independent of actual potential pace. We seem to either get outstanding 2-way 'AV-type' players, or we get absolutely nothing. And if we want to be a 'Detroit-style' organization feeding off of internal promotion, we're going to need to be sure that AV is having a high success rate in integrating a steady stream of talented young players, and adapting to the pace of individual players development.

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07-09-2011, 06:21 PM
  #73
Drop the Sopel
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Uh, not really.

And after Shirokov was sent back to the AHL, the Canucks continued to suffer from the removal of his high-end skill.

No wait, they averaged 4 goals per game for the next 9 games, and went 7-1-1. Bad Vigneault!
I seem to remember they weren't scoring when Shirokov got the call. How many goals did they have leading up to his 1 game call-up where he scored?

Each move should be judged on it's own merits. Shirokov created 4 or 5 scoring chances his first game and earned a longer look than he was given. It must have been extremely demoralizing for him after working so hard to get into NHL calibre condition, getting the call-up, generating a handful of scoring chances, scoring his 1st NHL goal in his 1st game of the season then being benched his 2nd time out and never given another opportunity.

If Volpatti, Desbiens and the like can be given 10 game stints to show anything at the NHL level surely someone with a modicum of skill and upside can be afforded the same opportunity.

And boy did we light it up come playoff time when it mattered!


Last edited by Drop the Sopel: 07-09-2011 at 06:27 PM.
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07-09-2011, 06:33 PM
  #74
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I seem to remember they weren't scoring when Shirokov got the call. How many goals did they have leading up to his 1 game call-up where he scored?
I remember they'd been shut out twice and scored 4 goals twice in the 4 games prior. I guess that does constitute a "HUGE SLUMP!!" around here.
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Each move should be judged on it's own merits. Shirokov created 4 or 5 scoring chances his first game and earned a longer look than he was given. It must have been extremely demoralizing for him after working so hard to get into NHL calibre condition, getting the call-up, generating a handful of scoring chances, scoring his 1st NHL goal in his 1st game of the season then being benched his 2nd time out and never given another opportunity.
Shirokov left out of practice due to inadequate conditioning

Shirokov was great in his first game, although lots of players have looked good alongside Kesler. Second game, he didn't battle along the boards, simple as that. Bye. He didn't have enough skill to be a fairy.
Quote:
If Volpatti, Desbiens and the like can be given 10 game stints to show anything at the NHL level surely someone with a modicum of skill and upside can be afforded the same opportunity.
Both those guys and Glass for that matter at least battled, and that's what you need from fourth line players.

Again, Shirokov wasn't in competition with those guys for line-up spots.

He was in competition with Hodgson/Tambellini.

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07-09-2011, 06:37 PM
  #75
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To put things in perspective, Shirokov score 2 more goals than Duco in the AHL last year. In 10 or so more games played... Different players, but just food for thought.

Shirokov deserves a shot in the NHL, but some people seem to have a love-affair with the guy that is unwarranted. Didn't really do anything special that I saw. My only gripe is I argued for him to be traded months ago, clear for a long time he had no place here.

Mike Duco will be a decent NHL spark-plug, better than nothing, which is what Shirokov was worth to us 24 hours ago...

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