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The Official Ex-Habs Thread Part III (All Former Habs Players Discussed Here!)

View Poll Results: Which team is better?
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Old
07-09-2011, 03:13 PM
  #1
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The Official Ex-Habs Thread Part III (All Former Habs Players Discussed Here!)

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07-09-2011, 03:58 PM
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Sergei was a top 6 player who was sent to the AHL after the team was "remodeled", it wasn't fair to him that he was passed over because of Gainey's quick rebuild. He deserved the ice time after what he showed in the previous season and playoffs and he was rewarded with the AHL. Obviously you expect a player to take it in stride and wait for his time to come (again), but he wasn't taking any of that. You could blame him for playing hardball and going to the KHL, but he knew he was good enough for the NHL and I believe he was right.

Despite all that, even if a player is a top 6 superstar, you won't win over your coach with that lousy behaviour. It was ultimately his undoing, to piss off half the team and the coaches, but it still leaves a sour taste in our collective mouths to see how he has blossomed and I'm certain 90% of us knew what he was capable of. Many fans here wanted him gone in the summer, and we kind of knew it was going to happen, but it still sucks to not have seen such a talented player evolve in our sweater.

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07-09-2011, 04:07 PM
  #3
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Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain View Post
Sergei was a top 6 player who was sent to the AHL after the team was "remodeled", it wasn't fair to him that he was passed over because of Gainey's quick rebuild. He deserved the ice time after what he showed in the previous season and playoffs and he was rewarded with the AHL. Obviously you expect a player to take it in stride and wait for his time to come (again), but he wasn't taking any of that. You could blame him for playing hardball and going to the KHL, but he knew he was good enough for the NHL and I believe he was right.

Despite all that, even if a player is a top 6 superstar, you won't win over your coach with that lousy behaviour. It was ultimately his undoing, to piss off half the team and the coaches, but it still leaves a sour taste in our collective mouths to see how he has blossomed and I'm certain 90% of us knew what he was capable of. Many fans here wanted him gone in the summer, and we kind of knew it was going to happen, but it still sucks to not have seen such a talented player evolve in our sweater.
I agree. I just wish Markov (or even his brother) had talked to him and knocked some sense into him.

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07-09-2011, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain View Post
Sergei was a top 6 player who was sent to the AHL after the team was "remodeled", it wasn't fair to him that he was passed over because of Gainey's quick rebuild. He deserved the ice time after what he showed in the previous season and playoffs and he was rewarded with the AHL. Obviously you expect a player to take it in stride and wait for his time to come (again), but he wasn't taking any of that. You could blame him for playing hardball and going to the KHL, but he knew he was good enough for the NHL and I believe he was right.

Despite all that, even if a player is a top 6 superstar, you won't win over your coach with that lousy behaviour. It was ultimately his undoing, to piss off half the team and the coaches, but it still leaves a sour taste in our collective mouths to see how he has blossomed and I'm certain 90% of us knew what he was capable of. Many fans here wanted him gone in the summer, and we kind of knew it was going to happen, but it still sucks to not have seen such a talented player evolve in our sweater.
i agree, but it still bugs me that we traded him for absolutely nothing...

if we couldn't get any value for him, why not keep him in Hamilton, and if he bolted to the KHL fine... worst case he stays there for his career, best case he plays well enough that some NHL team shows some interest and trades us a late pick or a prospect for his rights....

imo the team handled him about as poorly as you can from an organizational pov, not unlike Grabovski, and as a result we lost a very talented asset for absolutely nothing.

i hope that management learnt their lesson, and don't make the same mistakes with Avtsin or other euro-players...

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07-09-2011, 06:29 PM
  #5
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Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain View Post
Sergei was a top 6 player who was sent to the AHL after the team was "remodeled", it wasn't fair to him that he was passed over because of Gainey's quick rebuild. He deserved the ice time after what he showed in the previous season and playoffs and he was rewarded with the AHL. Obviously you expect a player to take it in stride and wait for his time to come (again), but he wasn't taking any of that. You could blame him for playing hardball and going to the KHL, but he knew he was good enough for the NHL and I believe he was right.

Despite all that, even if a player is a top 6 superstar, you won't win over your coach with that lousy behaviour. It was ultimately his undoing, to piss off half the team and the coaches, but it still leaves a sour taste in our collective mouths to see how he has blossomed and I'm certain 90% of us knew what he was capable of. Many fans here wanted him gone in the summer, and we kind of knew it was going to happen, but it still sucks to not have seen such a talented player evolve in our sweater.
As you know, I don't entirely agree. CLEARLY, he has to blame himself...he wasn't an angel. But I'd also say that he was a kid being a kid. People are just seeing some kids talk and believe they should all act that way. When you hear a Subban or a Beaulieu talk, you know that you have some exceptional kids in front of you (though, you read some of Nathan's tweets and you see that he's still a kid....). But they are not the norm. There are 18 year olds behaving like 18 year old.....Which mean, you need some people who are just at ease to work with those "troubled" kids than the rest of them. Some are able to. Some aren't. And it's not because you might have been able to do it 10 years ago, that you are still able to do it now. I'm pretty sure I would have been a more patient father if I would have had them at 30 than at 40.

So Sergei falls in the category of immature ones. Yet, we don't know EVERYTHING. Positive or negative. It's possible he was worst than we thought he was....but it's also possible he was not THAT bad. I mean, at one point you hear reports about how he is totally disruptive, that he never listens, that he's just not interested of improving and then...he goes to Hamilton. And then, you hear and read about how he was watching some videos with Guy Boucher, meetings that HE, SERGEI, asked to have. So he suddenly matured when he was sent in Hamilton?

Some players needs to be talked to. Okay, some here will say it's not kindergarden....well I'm sorry, but grown ups who work from 9 to 5 for a living, ALSO needs to be sure everything is in order, that he's doing a good job and that some reviews 2 or 3 times a year exist so that everything goes according to plan....Yet, you read and hear about how Martin doesn't talk that much to his players. Will work with some, won't with others. Others will say, well you do need to be traded once to then turn it around....Maybe....but I fail to see how a guy so incredibley immature and disruptive can change just with a trade. Wasn't he suppose to not care and just go in the KHL if no NHL team wanted him? If that guy was THAT bad, isn't it possible that being traded, for him, would just mean that Martin was wrong all along and that he was not going to change for anybody not even his new coach?

Nope. Jacques Martin DOES NOT do it on purpose. He does not sit on his chair and ask himself...."Which guy can I ****ed his development".....Obviously not. But he's not perfect. He has his persona. And if his persona is my way or the highway and that he prefers to go with guys who has an incredible work ethic and then try to improve instead of having the time to take a guy who's just not up to par and he doesn't have the time to babysit him....well, we will miss on some talents that takes longer time to improve mentally and physically.

It's all about confidence. Martin has confidence in some players....and unfortunately, there are other players that are just waiting for some confidence to get it going....and they don't get it. Strangely, most of the guys that left ended up playing a different role with their new team then they were with the Habs....and succeeded more there because of it.....Coincidence? Can it also be a problem of acknowledging what you have and play with the players' strengths? Why turn Latendresse in a hitting machine when they only bodycheck he gave in Juniors was with the mascot....in the dressing room?

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07-09-2011, 06:54 PM
  #6
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As you know, I don't entirely agree. CLEARLY, he has to blame himself...he wasn't an angel. But I'd also say that he was a kid being a kid. People are just seeing some kids talk and believe they should all act that way. When you hear a Subban or a Beaulieu talk, you know that you have some exceptional kids in front of you (though, you read some of Nathan's tweets and you see that he's still a kid....). But they are not the norm. There are 18 year olds behaving like 18 year old.....Which mean, you need some people who are just at ease to work with those "troubled" kids than the rest of them. Some are able to. Some aren't. And it's not because you might have been able to do it 10 years ago, that you are still able to do it now. I'm pretty sure I would have been a more patient father if I would have had them at 30 than at 40.

So Sergei falls in the category of immature ones. Yet, we don't know EVERYTHING. Positive or negative. It's possible he was worst than we thought he was....but it's also possible he was not THAT bad. I mean, at one point you hear reports about how he is totally disruptive, that he never listens, that he's just not interested of improving and then...he goes to Hamilton. And then, you hear and read about how he was watching some videos with Guy Boucher, meetings that HE, SERGEI, asked to have. So he suddenly matured when he was sent in Hamilton?

Some players needs to be talked to. Okay, some here will say it's not kindergarden....well I'm sorry, but grown ups who work from 9 to 5 for a living, ALSO needs to be sure everything is in order, that he's doing a good job and that some reviews 2 or 3 times a year exist so that everything goes according to plan....Yet, you read and hear about how Martin doesn't talk that much to his players. Will work with some, won't with others. Others will say, well you do need to be traded once to then turn it around....Maybe....but I fail to see how a guy so incredibley immature and disruptive can change just with a trade. Wasn't he suppose to not care and just go in the KHL if no NHL team wanted him? If that guy was THAT bad, isn't it possible that being traded, for him, would just mean that Martin was wrong all along and that he was not going to change for anybody not even his new coach?

Nope. Jacques Martin DOES NOT do it on purpose. He does not sit on his chair and ask himself...."Which guy can I ****ed his development".....Obviously not. But he's not perfect. He has his persona. And if his persona is my way or the highway and that he prefers to go with guys who has an incredible work ethic and then try to improve instead of having the time to take a guy who's just not up to par and he doesn't have the time to babysit him....well, we will miss on some talents that takes longer time to improve mentally and physically.

It's all about confidence. Martin has confidence in some players....and unfortunately, there are other players that are just waiting for some confidence to get it going....and they don't get it. Strangely, most of the guys that left ended up playing a different role with their new team then they were with the Habs....and succeeded more there because of it.....Coincidence? Can it also be a problem of acknowledging what you have and play with the players' strengths? Why turn Latendresse in a hitting machine when they only bodycheck he gave in Juniors was with the mascot....in the dressing room?
You've touched on 3 things:

1- The maturity of players

I agree with you regarding the immaturity of Sergei, as he has shown multiple time, taking his frustration and making it "bigger" then the team itself. He was putting himself before the team and that probably made people lose respect for him. That is definitely a sign of age, he's still raw and very self centered, and I question the involvement of AK and Markov and any other people close to him in terms of "setting him straight". I also agree that not everyone can be like Subban and Beaulieu, not everyone has a personality that shines, through traditional media and social media (we don't get to see these players in their everyday lives, so all we can judge upon is what is available in the medias). Which brings me to my second point...

2- The media

As you've touched on it, we've been reported MANY things regarding Sergei. At a certain point in the season, he was riding a rollercoaster between the AHL and NHL an threatening to jump to the KHL. No matter how bad it sounds in writing, it doesn't come close to the persecution of him in the media. They (I won't name names, because it was pretty much all the public media figureheads that jumped on him) didn't miss a chance to bring up his Russian (even though he is from Belarus) background as some sort of indicator that his behaviour was to be expected and that he was simply another spoiled brat from Russia threatening his management. Rather than trying to report a story, they made it sensational and an example of past stereotypes. The worst part is that most fans won't agree with me in assessing the criticism for the media because they believe what the "journalists" say. I'm not telling people that Sergei was an angel, just that he was unfairly characterized into a villain and took away any redeeming factors he might have had. He wasn't the first player to go through these sort of rough patches, but he was definitely made into a "persona non grata" in Montreal. The players might not have wanted him back, but players don't hold grudges and would have eventually accepted him as he grows into being a team player.

3- Jacques Martin

Jacques Martin was definitely not the best person for Kostitsyn, and in that regards, I am happy for him, that he has the chance of playing for a coach that has confidence in him. We all know Martin has strict expectations of his players, and if you fail your assignments you will be in the doghouse (see Pouliot, Latendresse). This only applies to fringe players and rookies, Gomez gets a free pass. I won't blame Martin for Kostitsyn, because as a head coach I would be pissed off too if my young players showed that kind of rude behaviour towards the team in general, and so we come back to;

Who do we blame for the Kostitsyn fiasco?

1/3 Kostitsyn?
1/3 Media?
1/3 Habs Organization?

I can't say.

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Old
07-09-2011, 07:33 PM
  #7
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1/3 Kostitsyn?
1/3 Media?
1/3 Habs Organization?

I can't say.
I'll take all of the above. Good post.

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07-09-2011, 07:45 PM
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I'll take all of the above. Good post.
What is this warm fuzzy feeling inside me?



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07-09-2011, 08:00 PM
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The saga of Sergei Kostitsyn always sounded "scapegoatish" to me. Jacques Martin was the new sheriff in town. To theorize he used SK as an example knowing he had a somewhat troubled reputation to back up his own decision making.

Always liked the talent of SK and wish things would have turned out differently. I've supported JM in the past but this was one situation that I always found a bit troubling.

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07-09-2011, 09:31 PM
  #10
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Sk Eller Ak

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07-09-2011, 09:40 PM
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Who do we blame for the Kostitsyn fiasco?

1/3 Kostitsyn?
1/3 Media?
1/3 Habs Organization?

I can't say.
Sad to let a guy that talented go when 2/3 of the problem is not his...And not getting anything in return as well...At what point, as much as I don't agree, if you clearly can't work with a kid 'cause he's so bad, you had to know it BEFORE everything crumbles and go public. So that you can trade him while his value is quite high. I repeat it what I repeated in other threads, some thought (not me) that SK+AK was better than Getzlaf.....he had to have done something pretty good and look like a good prospect at one point....and then we drop it. Not only the player himself for us, but his value to be traded.

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07-09-2011, 10:08 PM
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Sad to let a guy that talented go when 2/3 of the problem is not his...And not getting anything in return as well...At what point, as much as I don't agree, if you clearly can't work with a kid 'cause he's so bad, you had to know it BEFORE everything crumbles and go public. So that you can trade him while his value is quite high. I repeat it what I repeated in other threads, some thought (not me) that SK+AK was better than Getzlaf.....he had to have done something pretty good and look like a good prospect at one point....and then we drop it. Not only the player himself for us, but his value to be traded.
Yup, just gave him away. Might as well have kept him right? I guess the big bosses don't think like us.

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07-09-2011, 10:27 PM
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to be honest, i also wanna get rid of Ak

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07-09-2011, 10:55 PM
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Best thing to come from the Sergei trade: People stopped referring to them as the "Kostitsyn brothers", as if they were one god damn entity.

Two completely different players and personalities.

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07-09-2011, 11:40 PM
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to be honest, i also wanna get rid of Ak
Why is that?

You're talking like he's bad for the team.

Habs is a better team with AK than without. He was in the top 4-5 in every offensive stats last season (goals, points, GWG, hits). He does not handcuffed the team with is contract. He doesn't have attitude problem. He's not talking someone's spot. One of his biggest weakness is his consistency but if you think about it, he did pretty well when he played with Plekanec and Eller. Without playing his ~15 games with Gomez, he would probably get at 25-30-55 pts season.

He led the team in game winning goal last season and in the 19 games where AK scored, the team is 17-1-1.


So why would you want to get rid of AK?


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07-10-2011, 07:05 AM
  #16
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The saga of Sergei Kostitsyn always sounded "scapegoatish" to me. Jacques Martin was the new sheriff in town. To theorize he used SK as an example knowing he had a somewhat troubled reputation to back up his own decision making.

Always liked the talent of SK and wish things would have turned out differently. I've supported JM in the past but this was one situation that I always found a bit troubling.
When your teammates want you off the team at playoff time, that tells me this isn't just Jm trying to send a message to the team.

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07-10-2011, 11:07 AM
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Montreal must be still have a good reputation because ALL (but two) of our UFA and RFA (with no QO) players has signed contracts elsewhere.

And I am pretty sure Sopel and Mara will find a new home pretty sure.

If you can play in Montreal, you can play anywhere...

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07-10-2011, 11:13 AM
  #18
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Montreal must be still have a good reputation because ALL (but two) of our UFA and RFA (with no QO) players has signed contracts elsewhere.

And I am pretty sure Sopel and Mara will find a new home pretty sure.

If you can play in Montreal, you can play anywhere...
I don't understand your point? NHL players will find a home anywhere in the NHL as long as they play at that level.

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07-10-2011, 11:17 AM
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I don't understand your point? NHL players will find a home anywhere in the NHL as long as they play at that level.
Just check the TSN UFA tracker. You gonna see that there is still a good 60-65 % of players unsigned, many of them will finish in the AHL or go to Europe to continue their carreer. Montreal is the team who has most of its UFA players already signed with a NHL team. So, I guess, GMs around the league like the quality of players we had. Pouliot with the Stanley Cup winners !!! Who could had predicted that ?

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07-10-2011, 11:17 AM
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So apparently Picard signed with Pittsburgh?

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07-10-2011, 12:05 PM
  #21
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When your teammates want you off the team at playoff time, that tells me this isn't just Jm trying to send a message to the team.
Yea, they clearly weren't fond of him. With Price calling him out and all the other stuff. I remember when he was put in the Philly series I saw the weirdest thing happen a couple times to Sergie. When he was coming off on a line change nobody opened the door for him. He had to reach over and open it himself. It was really weird to see.

We all knew sergie had the skills, unfortunately for whatever reason the players and coaches on the big club couldn't embrace him. Oh well, im happy with our top 9 now and im happy to see Sergei turn it around.

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07-10-2011, 12:43 PM
  #22
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Cory Urquhart

I noticed he wasn't on the Habs prospect page anymore.. I know he busted, but anyone knows why? What happened? I never seen him play, from stats alone, he looked very promising. A big RH center that put up great points. How was his skating?

Anyone have any idea?

This 03 draft is a freaking nightmare for the Habs.. especially with all the talent that was available. Although, it was Timmins and co. first draft, maybe they were unprepared.

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07-10-2011, 12:53 PM
  #23
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Skating was very poor.

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07-10-2011, 01:15 PM
  #24
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When your teammates want you off the team at playoff time, that tells me this isn't just Jm trying to send a message to the team.
Also possible that this "Get him off the team" scenario was also quite overblown. Strikes me everytime that we don't believe what those stupid journalists are saying unless....we agree with them.

I remember at one point when the worst days in Habs history happen, NOBODY condemn SKost and everybody were on the journalists back....Then when he was traded, he was the most awful human being on the planet. Too many people going with the wind....

Quote:
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Yea, they clearly weren't fond of him. With Price calling him out and all the other stuff. I remember when he was put in the Philly series I saw the weirdest thing happen a couple times to Sergie. When he was coming off on a line change nobody opened the door for him. He had to reach over and open it himself. It was really weird to see.

We all knew sergie had the skills, unfortunately for whatever reason the players and coaches on the big club couldn't embrace him. Oh well, im happy with our top 9 now and im happy to see Sergei turn it around.
Price in his young career was also called out. Subban was clearly called out. Price was known as having a terrible work ethic and thinking he was all that. Fortunately, we believed in their potential and don't think they should be traded because of it. They jsut didn't believe enough in SKost. If they would, possible they would have worked with him the way they're doing with Price and Subban. This org. is not the greatest at working with the kids that need some guidance, but they did ended up doing it for Carey and PK....but seems that unless you're an exceptional, you are not worth it.

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07-10-2011, 03:02 PM
  #25
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He plays in the Elite League in Halifax's Play-On every year, I believe for the Toothy Moose squad?

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