HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Buffalo Sabres
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

OT: Thinking NHL Expansion

View Poll Results: Which Two Cities Should Get NHL Expansion Teams
Minneapolis 6 13.04%
Milwaukee 12 26.09%
Quebec City 37 80.43%
Austin 1 2.17%
Cleveland 5 10.87%
Cincinnati 1 2.17%
Anchorage 5 10.87%
Indianapolis 3 6.52%
Other (explain) 19 41.30%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-08-2011, 01:57 PM
  #26
Blackhawkswincup
Global Moderator
 
Blackhawkswincup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chicagoland
Country: United States
Posts: 101,851
vCash: 340
I think NHL move to 4 divisions is setting up for expansion in a couple years.

With Coyoutes on life support and probably moving next summer (Glendale has said they wont pay again next year to keep Coyotes)

Move Coyotes to Houston. Get Les Alexander back in game at discount for team ,, He nearly got Oilers in late 90's and lost out on last round of expansion because there were 2 competing bids from Houston that watered down all there chances

Expand to KC and QC in a few years

Div 1 - Ott , Tor , Mon , QC , Det , Buf , Bos , Pit
Div 2 - NYR , NYI , NJ , Phi , Was , Car , TB , Fla
Div 3 - Chi , Hou , Dal , Stl , Min , Clb , Nas , KC
Div 4 - LA , SJ , Ana , Van , Edm , Cal , Col , Win


Last edited by Blackhawkswincup: 07-08-2011 at 02:03 PM.
Blackhawkswincup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2011, 02:01 PM
  #27
slip
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,215
vCash: 500
Expansion?

Is this a joke?

Anyone want to lay bets that in a couple more years we'll be talking contraction?

slip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2011, 02:03 PM
  #28
Blackhawkswincup
Global Moderator
 
Blackhawkswincup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chicagoland
Country: United States
Posts: 101,851
vCash: 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by slip View Post
Expansion?

Is this a joke?

Anyone want to lay bets that in a couple more years we'll be talking contraction?
There will never be contraction ,, It isn't realistic

NHL will move teams before folding them same with the rest of the leagues

Blackhawkswincup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2011, 02:04 PM
  #29
HogtownSabresfan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,164
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CriminallyVu1gar View Post
I actually have a couple people from anchorage who follow me on twitter say pretty much the same thing.
You got any corporate sponsors? Zero chance. Ever. Maybe an exhibition game for fun but costs for that would be insane too unless you could make it a TV spectacle.

HogtownSabresfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2011, 02:09 PM
  #30
slip
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,215
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
There will never be contraction ,, It isn't realistic

NHL will move teams before folding them same with the rest of the leagues
What's not realistic is the idea that the NHL can continue to grow out its product, what with the slow decay of Eastern European and Russian hockey development programs. It was the rapid influx of Euro talent -- and the desire for a quick buck -- that fueled expansion in the 90's. Those days are long gone.

Sports franchises -- the last, great bubble.

I'm not just spewing venom. I have some deep socio-economic views on the subject of professional sports and its function in society.

slip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2011, 02:31 PM
  #31
Herman Hessian
Registered User
 
Herman Hessian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Brighton; UK
Country: England
Posts: 207
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HogtownSabresfan View Post
You got any corporate sponsors? Zero chance. Ever. Maybe an exhibition game for fun but costs for that would be insane too unless you could make it a TV spectacle.
open air arena - every home game is a winter classic ?

Herman Hessian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2011, 02:48 AM
  #32
Blackhawkswincup
Global Moderator
 
Blackhawkswincup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chicagoland
Country: United States
Posts: 101,851
vCash: 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by slip View Post
What's not realistic is the idea that the NHL can continue to grow out its product, what with the slow decay of Eastern European and Russian hockey development programs. It was the rapid influx of Euro talent -- and the desire for a quick buck -- that fueled expansion in the 90's. Those days are long gone.

Sports franchises -- the last, great bubble.

I'm not just spewing venom. I have some deep socio-economic views on the subject of professional sports and its function in society.
While Eastern Europe talent pool has declines US , German and Swiss talent pools have grown so really it isn't a major drop in talent available

Blackhawkswincup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2011, 02:58 AM
  #33
HarryNealesGarden
Big Daddy Ted
 
HarryNealesGarden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: BOS
Country: United States
Posts: 4,244
vCash: 500
Contraction is never a good idea. It boggles my mind that anyone thinks it is.

Contraction is a sign of a dying league. The NHL is booming right now, contraction would be senseless.

HarryNealesGarden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2011, 10:52 AM
  #34
omglolnub
Registered User
 
omglolnub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,176
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herman Hessian View Post
AHEM !


I'd love to see the Whalers back, but as a local resident, it's just not going to happen. Everyone's allegiances are either with the Rangers or if they didn't care about hockey until recently, they hopped on the Bruins bandwagon at varying points in the spring (man, next season is gonna be a reality check for them when the B's get bounced in round 1 by the Sabres ). Okay, there are some Bruins fans, too. I won't even get into the umm..."charlie foxtrot" that the state's economy is in right now or talk about the state's political situation.

Anyway, back to the poll. I think these cities should get teams in order of priority: Quebec, Hamilton, Seattle -or- Portland OR, Kansas City.

The way I see it: Phoenix and Florida Panthers could very well move. These teams should go to the two cities that are more or less NHL ready with an arena, etc. Doesn't have to be a gigantic barn. Heck, the new Jets are playing in a 15k person arena, right?

The two expansion teams should go to the other two cities that have to build a new arena from scratch. Arena construction could done by 2015'ish (hey look, just in time for the Islanders to move if they don't get their new arena approved next month! ) and there you go. All four cities with shiny new teams.

omglolnub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2011, 04:44 PM
  #35
CriminallyVu1gar
LGBTerrific
 
CriminallyVu1gar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 832
vCash: 500
I know it would probably never happen, but if the Panthers or Coyotes were to move in the next few years, I wouldn't be opposed to putting a team back in Atlanta, especially if there's an ownership change and with it a commitment to winning. Given the expansion of youth hockey there, and the market size, I feel hockey in Atlanta could at least be moderately successful, especially if the team competes.

CriminallyVu1gar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2011, 04:54 PM
  #36
omglolnub
Registered User
 
omglolnub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,176
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CriminallyVu1gar View Post
I know it would probably never happen, but if the Panthers or Coyotes were to move in the next few years, I wouldn't be opposed to putting a team back in Atlanta, especially if there's an ownership change and with it a commitment to winning. Given the expansion of youth hockey there, and the market size, I feel hockey in Atlanta could at least be
moderately successful, especially
if the team competes.
Totally agree. I was pretty mad at the NHL's double-standard with bending over backwards to save the Coyotes, but basically threw the Thrashers under the bus. Totally kills Georgia's growing hockey base and defeats the purpose of "growing the game" in other markets. I mean, which teams in that area do those Thrashers fans root for now? Kinda dissapointed. I know it was to get the 60 million, but still...

omglolnub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2011, 05:07 PM
  #37
HogtownSabresfan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,164
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by omglolnub View Post
Totally agree. I was pretty mad at the NHL's double-standard with bending over backwards to save the Coyotes, but basically threw the Thrashers under the bus. Totally kills Georgia's growing hockey base and defeats the purpose of "growing the game" in other markets. I mean, which teams in that area do those Thrashers fans root for now? Kinda dissapointed. I know it was to get the 60 million, but still...
Hockey in Atlanta could fail a third time. I'm done with Atlanta. Hope the NHL is too.

HogtownSabresfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2011, 05:10 PM
  #38
New Sabres Captain
ForFriendshipDikembe
 
New Sabres Captain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 38,199
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by omglolnub View Post
Totally agree. I was pretty mad at the NHL's double-standard with bending over backwards to save the Coyotes, but basically threw the Thrashers under the bus. Totally kills Georgia's growing hockey base and defeats the purpose of "growing the game" in other markets. I mean, which teams in that area do those Thrashers fans root for now? Kinda dissapointed. I know it was to get the 60 million, but still...
To be fair, they had no real recourse in Atlanta.

The arena was owned by ASG as were the Hawks and Thrashers. They wanted to sell the Hawks/arena to another suitor and the Thrashers separately. Who would buy the Thrashers AND keep them in Atlanta when they wouldn't be able to get an Arena deal (since ASG wanted nothing else attached to the Arena that could bring down its value, such as a lease agreement with the Thrashers).

What could the league possibly do in that situation? With the Coyotes, the lease agreement is with the City of Glendale, which at least gives them recourse (and the fact the league owns the team).

They can't ban ASG from selling the team (unless it's Balsille of course) or extending a lease agreement for the team to play in the Arena. And no person in their right mind would buy the team to keep it in Atlanta when they wouldn't have a place to play.

New Sabres Captain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2011, 06:29 PM
  #39
Herman Hessian
Registered User
 
Herman Hessian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Brighton; UK
Country: England
Posts: 207
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by omglolnub View Post
I'd love to see the Whalers back, but as a local resident, it's just not going to happen. Everyone's allegiances are either with the Rangers or if they didn't care about hockey until recently, they hopped on the Bruins bandwagon at varying points in the spring (man, next season is gonna be a reality check for them when the B's get bounced in round 1 by the Sabres ). Okay, there are some Bruins fans, too. I won't even get into the umm..."charlie foxtrot" that the state's economy is in right now or talk about the state's political situation.
not a subscriber to Howard Baldwin's brand of - hmmm - optimistic rhetoric then ?

can't fault the guy for the rebranding and all his enthusiasm, but there just doesn't seem to be any viability in his long-term ambitions - thank god the Sabres are there to fill the void !

Herman Hessian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2011, 07:07 PM
  #40
jfb392
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,112
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveDaSwords View Post
To be fair, they had no real recourse in Atlanta.

The arena was owned by ASG as were the Hawks and Thrashers. They wanted to sell the Hawks/arena to another suitor and the Thrashers separately. Who would buy the Thrashers AND keep them in Atlanta when they wouldn't be able to get an Arena deal (since ASG wanted nothing else attached to the Arena that could bring down its value, such as a lease agreement with the Thrashers).

What could the league possibly do in that situation? With the Coyotes, the lease agreement is with the City of Glendale, which at least gives them recourse (and the fact the league owns the team).

They can't ban ASG from selling the team (unless it's Balsille of course) or extending a lease agreement for the team to play in the Arena. And no person in their right mind would buy the team to keep it in Atlanta when they wouldn't have a place to play.

Finally, someone understands that the NHL really had no other option other than to move Atlanta.
No one was going to bail them out like the Coyotes and they were aware of ASG's desire to sell for years; the fact is that no one wanted them and even if they did, they had no place to play.

The Coyotes haven't moved yet because of the stupidity of a mayor trying to save her pet project strip mall, but it looks like she's finally going to give up (thankfully).


As for the original post: I don't think any of the cities are expansion candidates except for Québec City.
I want a team back in QC, but unless they are going to get a huge expansion fee out of Quebecor, they will be relocating there.

The larger markets such as Hamilton, Houston, Kansas City, or Toronto are better for extracting expansion fees and thus I believe they are better candidates for expansion, but I don't think there should be any expansion in the near future.

If anything, there should be contraction, but they need to wait for another major league to do it so they do not get into a mess of legal trouble and bad press.
I think it's inevitable with the way the American economy is heading, so they just have to wait for someone else to flinch if they want to contract.

jfb392 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2011, 07:55 PM
  #41
boots electric
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 1,238
vCash: 500
I'm on board with the Phoenix -> Houston move. It's an intriguing market, and I like the idea of keeping a team in the south-west.

As far as two cities for expansion:

Quebec
Seattle (or Portland, OR)

I know there's a lot of concerns over the Seattle sports market, but the risk is worth it IMO

boots electric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2011, 08:27 PM
  #42
CriminallyVu1gar
LGBTerrific
 
CriminallyVu1gar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 832
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by boots electric View Post
I'm on board with the Phoenix -> Houston move. It's an intriguing market, and I like the idea of keeping a team in the south-west.

As far as two cities for expansion:

Quebec
Seattle (or Portland, OR)

I know there's a lot of concerns over the Seattle sports market, but the risk is worth it IMO
What risks are those, outside of not having a viable arena at the moment?

CriminallyVu1gar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2011, 09:35 PM
  #43
omglolnub
Registered User
 
omglolnub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,176
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HogtownSabresfan View Post
Hockey in Atlanta could fail a third time. I'm done with Atlanta. Hope the NHL is too.
I just felt that it was tough luck with the ownership group that was basically trying it's darndest to torpedo the team. I mean, the Atlanta region is very populated. If there was an ownership group that was just...average, even, then who knows what could have happened? Other southern markets have grown nicely enough. But yeah, I don't think an NHL team will ever return to Atlanta ever again, and to me at least, that's a shame. Maybe you're a northern purist, but I think that it's too bad that the Thrashers failed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herman Hessian View Post
not a subscriber to Howard Baldwin's brand of - hmmm - optimistic rhetoric then ?

can't fault the guy for the rebranding and all his enthusiasm, but there just doesn't seem to be any viability in his long-term ambitions - thank god the Sabres are there to fill the void !
Howard Baldwin's injected some energy into the Whale. I was kinda annoyed about the mid-season name change. Seemed kinda bush league to me. Although I kinda have to laugh. If there's anyone I don't want running the Whalers, it's Howard Baldwin. It's the whole running-the-Pittsburgh-Penguins-into-the-ground thing that sorta has me suspicious, I dunno

Realistically, the Wolfpack/Whale are perfect for the city, other than that the Civic Center is way too big for an AHL team's purposes, but what can you do there? Haha. The people that want to go to -a- hockey game get to go to a game on the cheap and I'd say the average attendance is about what you normally see at the AHL level. Plus, I personally know the assistant equipment manager and the Jersey Girl (raffles off signed team jerseys), too

I'll be honest, Connecticut sports fans tend to be very fair-weathered. I remember a 1997 Hartford Courant article saying that even if the league brought the Detroit Red Wings to town, but the team didn't win, no one would watch them. There was never enough of a fanbase that stuck with the team, win or lose, to stay in Hartford. It sucky, but true. I mean, no one cared about UConn men's and women's basketball until they started winning National Championships, or UConn football until they started playing in/winning Bowl games. On top of that, the fans are spoiled. It's as if they expect "their" team to win every single game in the season and in a blowout fashion, and if they don't accomplish either, something's drastically wrong. It's like a Toronto and Boston fan love-child, and ho-boy, it's uglier than Chad Kroeger.

Of course, the deciding factor for luring a team to Hartford is a new arena, since the Civic Center is ancient, but Connecticut's current government is more interested in giving sweetheart deals to unions that they wont accept than say, build a new arena in downtown or I dunno...close the gigantic budget shortfall! Connecticut politics make my head spin...

So yeah, let's leave well enough alone in Hartford. Also, don't even think about moving here.

omglolnub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2011, 11:39 PM
  #44
boots electric
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 1,238
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CriminallyVu1gar View Post
What risks are those, outside of not having a viable arena at the moment?
Seattle is viewed by a lot of people as a bad sports town for one reason or another. The success of their MLS team has eroded some of the concern, but there's still some worries there.

The only thing that matters though is if the league shares this same concern. Even then, if the city were to get an NHL arena, they might risk it any way

boots electric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2011, 07:44 PM
  #45
allsilverdreams
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 121
vCash: 500
i would have to say quebec and i would love hartford back in the same division as us

allsilverdreams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2011, 07:54 PM
  #46
MstrawQCS
Registered User
 
MstrawQCS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: South Buffalo, NY
Posts: 8
vCash: 500
I think KC or Seattle should get a team, but i feel the next place will be Kansas City just because of that gorgeous arena just begging for a team

MstrawQCS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2011, 09:37 PM
  #47
TyMy57
Enroth is God
 
TyMy57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Buffalo
Country: United States
Posts: 784
vCash: 500
Am I the only one scared for the Sabres if Southern Ontario gets a team? I really see the Sabres getting hurt (not fatally but hurt) if Hamilton got a team, as to me that's too many teams too close with not enough people.

TyMy57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2011, 11:43 PM
  #48
Stone87
Registered User
 
Stone87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Rochester
Country: United States
Posts: 1,748
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyMy57 View Post
Am I the only one scared for the Sabres if Southern Ontario gets a team? I really see the Sabres getting hurt (not fatally but hurt) if Hamilton got a team, as to me that's too many teams too close with not enough people.
Bettman already came out and said that Ballsillie could likely have a team provided he didn't screw around again and make a big media spectacle. To me that means the Coyotes, since it looks to me like Hulsizer backing out is the end for that franchise. Also Ballsillie has only ever seemed interested in having a team in Ontario. My guess is that the best scenario for all parties would be playing in Copps for a few years and paying royalties to the Sabres and/or Leafs until a new NHL quality arena could be built in another location that would not cut into the Sabres territory.

I think this is also part of the reason they're putting off changing the divisions. I get the feeling league executives are well aware things are over in Phoenix and it makes little sense to make changes until that is settled.

Stone87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2011, 11:45 PM
  #49
omglolnub
Registered User
 
omglolnub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,176
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyMy57 View Post
Am I the only one scared for the Sabres if Southern Ontario gets a team? I really see the Sabres getting hurt (not fatally but hurt) if Hamilton got a team, as to me that's too many teams too close with not enough people.
I don't think it'd be an issue for Hamilton to get a team. I saw a Bulldogs game the night after I saw the Sabres play a few years ago (part of a trip to see the HoF) and the place was packed, so why not? As the border crossing gets more and more difficult for us ordinary citizens, I don't forsee people border hopping just to see a Hamilton team or the Sabres. Just my .02. I could be wrong, but I don't really care

omglolnub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2011, 01:37 AM
  #50
not a trapdoor
I swallowed my keys
 
not a trapdoor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sydney
Country: Australia
Posts: 254
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to not a trapdoor
No chance Minnesota gets a second team before Toronto.

And very little chance that the Coyotes stay in AZ. Which would then mean three cities could gain a team.

In order of preference:

Quebec: With a modern arena it's a no brainer. A market desperate for hockey, not one which will summarily ignore the team (like Phoenix & to a lesser extent Atlanta).

Houston: A good sports town & a massive market.

Toronto: Like Quebec, the market for hockey is there & at the moment demand very much outstrips supply. They might be another LA Clippers, but they'd still thrive.

not a trapdoor is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:24 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.