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Old
07-09-2011, 09:05 PM
  #501
Russian Warrior
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
How did Stamkos do in the playoffs?

Maybe the reason there's no offers is because the asking price is too high. And rightly so. I really hope, (and also am quite confident) that the Habs will stay away. The guy is a great player don't get me wrong, but no way is he worth gutting our team for.

I say stay away and don't put all your eggs in the same basket. Would love to see the guy on the Habs, but not at the cost of losing Plecky, Gorges, Patches +.

No way in hell.
He's 21 years old...

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07-09-2011, 09:11 PM
  #502
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i would love to have SS on the Habs, but at the high cost of mortgaging the future/dismantling the core dramatically? pass.

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07-09-2011, 09:13 PM
  #503
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He's 21 years old...
Well, good point, but it still puts up the warning signs for me. Plus I just think these long term, extremely lucrative contracts are a bad idea, not to mention trading 3 really good affordable players for him. I think you need balance on a team. Personally I'd stay away and I am 99% sure the Habs will.

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i would love to have SS on the Habs, but at the high cost of mortgaging the future/dismantling the core dramatically? pass.
Exactly.


Last edited by Habsfan18: 07-09-2011 at 10:53 PM. Reason: merged
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07-09-2011, 09:22 PM
  #504
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I'd probably give up the 4 1st rounders for him. Obviously provided we bury Gomez.

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07-09-2011, 09:30 PM
  #505
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i would love to have SS on the Habs, but at the high cost of mortgaging the future/dismantling the core dramatically? pass.
No, the next 3-4 years is the window for the Habs to win. You went ahead and signed players like Cammalleri and Gionta (traded for Gomez) for the duration of 5 years. After this contract ends, they will probably not be as good as they are now. If the Habs give up their pick for the next 4 years, they will be competing each year.

After 4 years, you can re-sign the players you want to keep and you'll always have Stamkos, Price and Subban to build the new core around. We are actually one of the teams that can afford to give away 4 picks. Just hope the prospects we currently have pan out.

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Old
07-09-2011, 09:31 PM
  #506
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Originally Posted by JimmyDarmody View Post
I'd probably give up the 4 1st rounders for him. Obviously provided we bury Gomez.
If we get Stamkos the average value of the 1st rounders will be 25th overall.

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07-09-2011, 09:32 PM
  #507
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To Tampa
Gomez, Weber + 1st in 2012 , 1st in 2013 and 1st in 2014

To Montreal
Stamkos, 1 ton of nuclear waste


An honest fair deal. We get their thrash and they get ours

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07-09-2011, 09:32 PM
  #508
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i don't have a problem with giving away picks so much as i do with giving away key pieces that are already in place and only getting better.

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Old
07-09-2011, 09:33 PM
  #509
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I can't believe people still think giving up multiple first round picks is a good idea. Sure worked out well for the Leafs!

Is there even one example of a team doing this and it working out? Is there even one example of a mutliple year contract (6+years) worth more that say 7 mil a year actually paying off? I'm asking honestly I might be forgeting one example where either of these things actually worked out.

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07-09-2011, 09:37 PM
  #510
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Free agency. No players to or prospects to lose. Let's look at Stamkos in 4 years.

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Old
07-09-2011, 09:40 PM
  #511
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
I can't believe people still think giving up multiple first round picks is a good idea. Sure worked out well for the Leafs!
1) Stamkos >> Kessel
2) 25th overall << 2nd overall.

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Is there even one example of a team doing this and it working out?
Kessel and Penner are the only examples. Penner worked out for Edmonton, Kessel might, depends how players like Seguin, Hamilton and Colborne work out.

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Is there even one example of a mutliple year contract (6+years) worth more that say 7 mil a year actually paying off?
It will take time to see if the Ovechkin, Zetterberg, Kopitar, Duncan Keith, etc deals work out. So far they are working out.

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07-09-2011, 09:42 PM
  #512
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Another thing to ask yourself is why is Steve Yzerman, arguably one of the best forwards ever to play the game, not jumping at the occasion to lock this guy up long term multiple years? Maybe he knows he's handcuffing his team's future by doing so?

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07-09-2011, 09:43 PM
  #513
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Gotta think further than your nose it marketing. No, he's not getting money from his twitter. He's getting followers and he's getting known. Once he's followed enough, what's keeping him from having his own site and then, start feeding his "scoops" to his followers directing them to the site?

That's pretty smart marketing if you ask me.
At least someone gets it.....

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Old
07-09-2011, 09:46 PM
  #514
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
1) Stamkos >> Kessel
2) 25th overall << 2nd overall.


Kessel and Penner are the only examples. Penner worked out for Edmonton, Kessel might, depends how players like Seguin, Hamilton and Colborne work out.


It will take time to see if the Ovechkin, Zetterberg, Kopitar, Duncan Keith, etc deals work out. So far they are working out.
Sounds like a lot of maybes, what ifs, and reaching in terms of argumentative points to me.

It's just not a good strategy to give up that much first off for a single player and second to lock him up long term at a rediculous salary.

A winning team is composed of a bunch of guys with an assigned role. Not built around 1-2 superstars, imho.

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Old
07-09-2011, 09:51 PM
  #515
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
A winning team is composed of a bunch of guys with an assigned role. Not built around 1-2 superstars, imho.
No, winning teams have stars.

The stanley cup finals had Chara and Thomas versus Sedin and Sedin.
The semi finalists had Stamkos, Lecavalier, St-Louis on the one hand, and Thornton, Marleau and Heatley on the other.

Recent Stanley Cup champions had Toews, Kane and Keith; Crosby, Malkin and Fleury; Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Lidstrom; Getzlaf, Selanne, Pronger and Niedermeyer; Staal and Ward.

That's objective reality. Another objective reality is Steven Stamkos as one of the elite centers in the NHL. The only maybes are the values of the 25th overall we would give up.

One of those players could turn into the Max Pacioretty of the 2018-2019 season !!!

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Old
07-09-2011, 09:58 PM
  #516
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
No, winning teams have stars.

The stanley cup finals had Chara and Thomas versus Sedin and Sedin.
The semi finalists had Stamkos, Lecavalier, St-Louis on the one hand, and Thornton, Marleau and Heatley on the other.

Recent Stanley Cup champions had Toews, Kane and Keith; Crosby, Malkin and Fleury; Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Lidstrom; Getzlaf, Selanne, Pronger and Niedermeyer; Staal and Ward.

That's objective reality. Another objective reality is Steven Stamkos as one of the elite centers in the NHL. The only maybes are the values of the 25th overall we would give up.

One of those players could turn into the Max Pacioretty of the 2018-2019 season !!!


Sure, but how many of those teams had to give up muliple first round picks or trade half their team to get those players?

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Old
07-09-2011, 10:05 PM
  #517
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Sure, but how many of those teams had to give up muliple first round picks or trade half their team to get those players?
Are you serious?

- Chicago, Tampa Bay, and Pittsburgh had to tank for 5+ years. The basis of Chicago's Stanley Cup was the loss of Jeremy Roenick in 1996, that's an ugly way to give up your core. Pittsburgh's cup win came from the loss of Kovalev and Jagr. TB's conference final this year from the loss of Richards and Khabibulin.
- Vancouver had to have a tanking season plus a lot of wheeling and dealing to draft the Sedin twins.
- Anaheim gave up multiple 1st round picks for Chris Pronger. Philadelphia then gave up multiple 1st round picks (I think 3 if you include Sbisa) to Anaheim for the same Pronger, who took them to game 7 of the finals in 2010.
- Detroit was able to draft Datsyuk and Zetterberg in the 7th and 6th round back when NHL teams were doing a poor job of scouting Europe and Montreal drafted Markov in the 7th round. This is no longer possible.
- Boston, which squeaked through, gave up two 1st round picks for Kaberle (Joe Colborne + 30th overall), and a former 4th overall in Blake Wheeler for Rich Peverley.

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07-09-2011, 10:10 PM
  #518
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Halak, Ryder and 2nd???
That's STANLEY CUP CHAMPION Ryder to you, sir

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Old
07-09-2011, 10:18 PM
  #519
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Price, Subban, Pacioretty.

Our future stars, there you go DAChampion.

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Old
07-09-2011, 10:20 PM
  #520
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Originally Posted by Russian Warrior View Post
Price, Subban, Pacioretty.

Our future stars, there you go DAChampion.
Why not Price, Subban, Pacioretty and Stamkos?

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07-09-2011, 10:57 PM
  #521
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Pacioretty's not a future star. He's like an Erik Cole IF he develops (people don't seem to be mentioning this, we've seen our fair share of young players flame out).

As for Stamkos I would give up 4 1sts in a heartbeat. Canadiens are in win now mode. Markov, Gill, Gionta, Spacek are reaching the ends of their careers rather soon and Cammalleri, Plekanec and Gorges are in their prime as we speak. By the time the first of the 1st rounders plays you're probably talking 2015 (averaged it to about 3 years dev time). Most of those guys will be gone by then. Not to mention the numbers show there's a good possibility one will flame out, one will be an average player and the other two might become great players or just good ones. You're getting a sure fire star in Stamkos, a perennial all-star and potential hall of famer. There's no one on the Habs or in the pipeline that even comes close to having that potential in terms of skaters.

To further illustrate let's take an example. Habs 1st rounders 2002-2005: Chris Higgins, Andrei Kostitsyn, Kyle Chipchura, Carey Price. Like I said before, 1 bust, 2 average players and 1 guy who looks like he'll be great for years to come. So 1 out of 4 you came out with an all-star. BUT Carey Price was taken 5th overall. The other guys were taken in spots closer to where the Habs will pick with an addition of a 50 goal guy, if not lower.

Plus don't forget. The point is to win the Stanley Cup. Add Stamkos and the Canadiens become contenders right now. And isn't that the big picture?


Last edited by schumway2: 07-09-2011 at 11:13 PM.
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07-09-2011, 11:00 PM
  #522
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
I can't believe people still think giving up multiple first round picks is a good idea. Sure worked out well for the Leafs!

Is there even one example of a team doing this and it working out? Is there even one example of a mutliple year contract (6+years) worth more that say 7 mil a year actually paying off? I'm asking honestly I might be forgeting one example where either of these things actually worked out.
You can't really compare our situation now to the Leafs at the time they traded their picks for Kessel. The Leafs were a non playoff team, while we are atleast considered playoff contenders. Adding Stamkos for draft picks would only improve that.

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Old
07-09-2011, 11:03 PM
  #523
Jack Bourdain
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You can't really compare our situation now to the Leafs at the time they traded their picks for Kessel. The Leafs were a non playoff team, while we are atleast considered playoff contenders. Adding Stamkos for draft picks would only improve that.
If we did get Stamkos, those picks would be low (should be). That also means our 2nd rounders would be low too. I usually don't care if the Habs draft in the first or not since Timmins has a good record in the 2nd round. Hopefully low seconds can still be worked by him.

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07-09-2011, 11:18 PM
  #524
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Originally Posted by schumway2 View Post
Pacioretty's not a future star. He's like an Erik Cole IF he develops (people don't seem to be mentioning this, we've seen our fair share of young players flame out).

As for Stamkos I would give up 4 1sts in a heartbeat. Canadiens are in win now mode. Markov, Gill, Gionta, Spacek are reaching the ends of their careers rather soon and Cammalleri, Plekanec and Gorges are in their prime as we speak. By the time the first of the 1st rounders plays you're probably talking 2015 (averaged it to about 3 years dev time). Most of those guys will be gone by then. Not to mention the numbers show there's a good possibility one will flame out, one will be an average player and the other two might become great players or just good ones. You're getting a sure fire star in Stamkos, a perennial all-star and potential hall of famer. There's no one on the Habs or in the pipeline that even comes close to having that potential in terms of skaters.

To further illustrate let's take an example. Habs 1st rounders 2002-2005: Chris Higgins, Andrei Kostitsyn, Kyle Chipchura, Carey Price. Like I said before, 1 bust, 2 average players and 1 guy who looks like he'll be great for years to come. So 1 out of 4 you came out with an all-star. BUT Carey Price was taken 5th overall. The other guys were taken in spots closer to where the Habs will pick with an addition of a 50 goal guy, if not lower.

Plus don't forget. The point is to win the Stanley Cup. Add Stamkos and the Canadiens become contenders right now. And isn't that the big picture?
Solid post.

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Old
07-09-2011, 11:27 PM
  #525
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The first round picks of the next few years are actually pretty important because as many people have mentioned, our core is in their prime now and will be out of or close to the end of their primes in a couple of years.

So the draft picks of the years coming up will have been finishing their development as our core players exit their primes. The next few years are when we focus on getting forwards to replace our core once they are off the team or out of their prime.

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