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[VAN/FLA] Canucks trade F Sergei Shirokov to Florida F Mike Duco

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07-10-2011, 03:23 AM
  #101
Blane Youngblood
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Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
Well we even had a few people who said they didn't even care if we won the cup, they thought AV should be fired because of how he handled Ballard, or Rome. I think that speaks volumes about some of our fanbase. I'm not a big AV supporter and I don't like a lot of his decisions but he gets results and thats what matters. As long as he keeps getting the wins, I'll bicker and complain about some of his decisions but I won't be forming any lynch mobs because it doesn't matter who is in charge, I'll disagree with them about something at some point.
I'm clearly in the fire AV camp, but if we won the Cup, I'd be happy to personally donate a bronze statue of AV, and perhaps the whole team for the plaza...how much could that cost anyways?

That being said, IMO, we were a lot closer to losing in the 1st round then we were to winning the Cup. That for me is enough reason to fire AV...we have a stacked team that underperformed a little too often for me.

Also, 5 years is a long time with one coach and its just normal that the message starts to fall on deaf ears. Combined with his handling of Hodgson (the injury thing), Mitchell (the injury thing), Ballard (just openly hating him - ask any media guys that travel with the team), and the Grabner thing (not playing him when he was one of our biggest offensive threats during the playoffs against CHI) and that makes me feel that his time is running out.

I have never seen a team as good as ours widely considered so weak mentally save for potentially the Detroit Red Wings of the early 90s. They ended up changing the coach, of course they got Scotty Bowman, and the rest is history. Their team of "choke artists" including Yzerman, ended up winning the Cup multiple times shortly after.

We are clearly not going to change our personnel and even though I am very proud of what our team achieved, let's be honest, the way things played out, we were a lot closer to being bounced in the 1st round then we were to winning the Cup. We need to make a major change, and as the saying goes, it's easier to change the coach then all the players.


Last edited by Blane Youngblood: 07-10-2011 at 03:25 AM. Reason: sorry, I realized that this was OT for a Duco trade thread, I'm stoked that we got anything for Shiro.
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Old
07-10-2011, 03:33 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Blane Youngblood View Post
I'm clearly in the fire AV camp, but if we won the Cup, I'd be happy to personally donate a bronze statue of AV, and perhaps the whole team for the plaza...how much could that cost anyways?

That being said, IMO, we were a lot closer to losing in the 1st round then we were to winning the Cup. That for me is enough reason to fire AV...we have a stacked team that underperformed a little too often for me.

Also, 5 years is a long time with one coach and its just normal that the message starts to fall on deaf ears. Combined with his handling of Hodgson (the injury thing), Mitchell (the injury thing), Ballard (just openly hating him - ask any media guys that travel with the team), and the Grabner thing (not playing him when he was one of our biggest offensive threats during the playoffs against CHI) and that makes me feel that his time is running out.

I have never seen a team as good as ours widely considered so weak mentally save for potentially the Detroit Red Wings of the early 90s. They ended up changing the coach, of course they got Scotty Bowman, and the rest is history. Their team of "choke artists" including Yzerman, ended up winning the Cup multiple times shortly after.

We are clearly not going to change our personnel and even though I am very proud of what our team achieved, let's be honest, the way things played out, we were a lot closer to being bounced in the 1st round then we were to winning the Cup. We need to make a major change, and as the saying goes, it's easier to change the coach then all the players.
Who do you replace him with?

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07-10-2011, 03:41 AM
  #103
John Swartzwelder
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dont you know, there is an nhl HHOF coach tree out back, just go pick yourself a ripe one

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Old
07-10-2011, 03:58 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Blane Youngblood View Post
I'm clearly in the fire AV camp, but if we won the Cup, I'd be happy to personally donate a bronze statue of AV, and perhaps the whole team for the plaza...how much could that cost anyways?

That being said, IMO, we were a lot closer to losing in the 1st round then we were to winning the Cup. That for me is enough reason to fire AV...we have a stacked team that underperformed a little too often for me.

Also, 5 years is a long time with one coach and its just normal that the message starts to fall on deaf ears. Combined with his handling of Hodgson (the injury thing), Mitchell (the injury thing), Ballard (just openly hating him - ask any media guys that travel with the team), and the Grabner thing (not playing him when he was one of our biggest offensive threats during the playoffs against CHI) and that makes me feel that his time is running out.

Grabner was not one of our top offensive threats in the Chicago series thats pure fabrication.

Hodgson has never been good enough to make this team, though AV:s comments about Cody was a little bit over the line.

The Ballard handling was wierd but Ballard had a crap year. And I dont belive in AV hating him, if he did Ballard would have asked Gillis for a trade and would be moved.

We were close to losing in the first round, but we were one win away from the cup, with 2 top six winger/1 top2 dman injured. Plus Kesler/Edler/Henrik was injured meh its not AV fault that players get injured.

PS. Im not saying "If healthy we win cup" .

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07-10-2011, 04:08 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by biturbo19 View Post
amen.
Hear, hear. It's too bad that AV chose to handle it this way. We aren't that deep.

That being said, I hope that Duco really does turn into a ball of hate for us.

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07-10-2011, 04:47 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Askel View Post
Grabner was not one of our top offensive threats in the Chicago series thats pure fabrication.

Hodgson has never been good enough to make this team, though AV:s comments about Cody was a little bit over the line.

The Ballard handling was wierd but Ballard had a crap year. And I dont belive in AV hating him, if he did Ballard would have asked Gillis for a trade and would be moved.

We were close to losing in the first round, but we were one win away from the cup, with 2 top six winger/1 top2 dman injured. Plus Kesler/Edler/Henrik was injured meh its not AV fault that players get injured.

PS. Im not saying "If healthy we win cup" .
Had a few replies so if its okay, I will continue this off-topic conversation.

1) Grabner was a threat that Chicago specifically planned for. He created tons of scoring opportunities which is why Talon was so quick to try and acquire him when he went to Florida. There were interviews during the series where Chicago players specifically identified him as a threat.

2) Hodgson, don't think he deserved to be on the team either but the injury was handled really poorly by AV specifically.

3) The Ballard hate is legit, like I said, ask any member of the travelling media. Ballard is going to man up and play better...we hope. The guy has historically been a top pairing defenseman. How the hell is it that here he doesn't even deserve to be in the lineup. One of the few guys that plays really chippy on our D.

4) We were heavy favorites in both Chicago and Boston, we were within a goal of being knocked out by Chicago. One goal wouldn't have won us the Cup. When you have the far superior team and the betting line (the closest thing you can get to an impartial informed opinion) has us as such heavy favorites against Boston, there is no excuse for losing. Even with the injuries, we were favored against Boston.

@ Canucker
- Larry Robinson - usually you can get an assisstant coach when you promote
- Ken Hitchcock
- Jacques Lamaire (really really retired?)
- Guy Carbonneau (as an assistant coach? might be a tough guy to get since he owns the team he coaches)

Also, not OT...kind of excited to see what Duco can bring. Based on the sounds of things, he's developping a pretty nice shot which when you add toughness that is about all you can ask for in a 4th line guy. Still hope we bring in a pure good and that Duco isn't our only tough guy at FW when the season starts.

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07-10-2011, 04:48 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by James Woolf View Post
Fourth-line players versus middling offensive players.

I like Grabner and all, but once other teams start realizing he exists, perhaps next year, I doubt he gets far past 20 goals / 40 points.
Thats so wrong. You really think teams just let him score at will last year? Nhl players have to battle for every goal don't be bitter.

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07-10-2011, 05:12 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by John Swartzwelder View Post
dont you know, there is an nhl HHOF coach tree out back, just go pick yourself a ripe one
Really? you actually think this is worthy of being funny?



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07-10-2011, 05:47 AM
  #109
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Well if there was friction b/w AV and Ballard that makes two coaches in a row that Ballard had trouble with. Apparently him and DeBoer had all out shouting wars when Ballard was in Florida. DeBoer wanted him off the team and that's one reason for the trade.

Maybe they were asking Ballard to play better off the puck and play better one on one around the net. I got the feeling that Ballard just tossed in the towel sometime after Xmas.

This is one reason I'm so surprised that Ballard wasn't moved and Ehrhoff kept. But I'm not wanting to get back into that.

Far as AV goes it wasn't the coaching that stopped the team from winning it was the injuries - especially to Hamhuis.

AV can put his foot in his mouth but I don't question his use of players much. Ballard played like crap and did not deserve any more time than he got. Hodgson's problems are in his game and and nothing to do with AV - and I hope Hodgson is not looking for excuses.

Grabner - Ballard trade looks poor at this point. But any final decision there lays with Gillis and not AV.

In the end, I'm not sure how much coaching really has to do with it. Ultimately good players make good coaches and bad players make bad coaches. I know some of the best coaching I have done is with losing teams and some of the worst has been with winning teams.

At the NHL level all the coaches are good. It is just who has the horses.

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07-10-2011, 06:23 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by orcatown View Post
In the end, I'm not sure how much coaching really has to do with it. Ultimately good players make good coaches and bad players make bad coaches. I know some of the best coaching I have done is with losing teams and some of the worst has been with winning teams.

At the NHL level all the coaches are good. It is just who has the horses.
I think that's my biggest problem, Vancouver was the team with the horses. We were overwhelming favorites against Chicago (in Vegas you had to bet over $2 to win $1) yet we almost lost. Same opening line against Boston, hell, it moved up to bet over $5 to win $1 after game 2, yet we still lost.

We had the horses. David Bolland ate the Sedins for breakfast. Marchand and Bergeron killed us against the Sedins. How did our opposition continually get their matchup? Didn't we win home ice?

Boston beat us down and our players were seemingly told not to respond. That strategy failed badly. Boston's best forward has a history of concussions, a few big runs at him and maybe Marchand backs off the Sedins. Maybe when we're losing by 4 with five minutes left we should send the Sedins and Kesler out to get completely battered and hacked at. We lost the war of attrition without even really trying to fight back. It's not like you need to be tough or a great fighter to throw a cheap shot. And when we lost momentum, there was no turning it around.

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07-10-2011, 11:25 AM
  #111
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Unless you want the Sedins playing 12 minutes a night, they're going to face tough matchups from time to time.

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07-10-2011, 01:23 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Blane Youngblood View Post

@ Canucker
- Larry Robinson - usually you can get an assisstant coach when you promote
- Ken Hitchcock
- Jacques Lamaire (really really retired?)
- Guy Carbonneau (as an assistant coach? might be a tough guy to get since he owns the team he coaches)
Personally I wouldn't let any of those coaches near this current team over AV.

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07-10-2011, 01:25 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Blane Youngblood View Post
@ Canucker
- Larry Robinson - usually you can get an assisstant coach when you promote
- Ken Hitchcock
- Jacques Lamaire (really really retired?)
- Guy Carbonneau (as an assistant coach? might be a tough guy to get since he owns the team he coaches)
If AV "hates" skilled offensive players, I can't even imagine what people would think of some of those guys.

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07-10-2011, 01:29 PM
  #114
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Washington is the team that should be looking for a new coach that "hates" skilled players.

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07-10-2011, 01:43 PM
  #115
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So Mike Duco... is he Rick Rypien V.2?

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07-10-2011, 02:02 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
So Mike Duco... is he Rick Rypien V.2?
Not as good fighter but maybe a better hockey player.

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07-10-2011, 02:40 PM
  #117
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So Mike Duco... is he Rick Rypien V.2?
That was my thought when I heard about the move... here's hoping he has his head screwed on.

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07-10-2011, 03:30 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by orcatown View Post
Canucks are clearly bringing in THE BOYS. Mancari, Pinnzotto, Duco to add to Volpatti... Whose next Tony Soprano...

There will be a lot more Forgetaboutits in the dressing room.
If they are anything like their football playing counterparts, it's looks like whining and diving will be an institution at the club from now on.

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07-10-2011, 04:49 PM
  #119
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Duco has a twitter account for anyone interested in following him...

Duco87 Mike Duco
Thanks to the @VanCaucks fans for the enthusiastic welcome!

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07-10-2011, 05:11 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Kagee View Post
Really? you actually think this is worthy of being funny?


dude, stop talking to me, I wasnt trying to be funny.

welcome to my ignore list

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07-10-2011, 05:16 PM
  #121
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@SlavaMalamud
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Sergei Shirokov tells Sport-Express he will not report to @FlaPanthers, will play for CSKA this year. #KHL #NHL
Win for us! RT by mirtle.

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07-10-2011, 05:28 PM
  #122
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Duco has a twitter account for anyone interested in following him...

Duco87 Mike Duco
Thanks to the @VanCaucks fans for the enthusiastic welcome!
Doesn't seem to have good character... can't even spell the name of the team correctly.

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07-10-2011, 05:38 PM
  #123
Askel
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Originally Posted by Blane Youngblood View Post
Had a few replies so if its okay, I will continue this off-topic conversation.

1) Grabner was a threat that Chicago specifically planned for. He created tons of scoring opportunities which is why Talon was so quick to try and acquire him when he went to Florida. There were interviews during the series where Chicago players specifically identified him as a threat.

2) Hodgson, don't think he deserved to be on the team either but the injury was handled really poorly by AV specifically.

3) The Ballard hate is legit, like I said, ask any member of the travelling media. Ballard is going to man up and play better...we hope. The guy has historically been a top pairing defenseman. How the hell is it that here he doesn't even deserve to be in the lineup. One of the few guys that plays really chippy on our D.

4) We were heavy favorites in both Chicago and Boston, we were within a goal of being knocked out by Chicago. One goal wouldn't have won us the Cup. When you have the far superior team and the betting line (the closest thing you can get to an impartial informed opinion) has us as such heavy favorites against Boston, there is no excuse for losing. Even with the injuries, we were favored against Boston.

@ Canucker
- Larry Robinson - usually you can get an assisstant coach when you promote
- Ken Hitchcock
- Jacques Lamaire (really really retired?)
- Guy Carbonneau (as an assistant coach? might be a tough guy to get since he owns the team he coaches)

Also, not OT...kind of excited to see what Duco can bring. Based on the sounds of things, he's developping a pretty nice shot which when you add toughness that is about all you can ask for in a 4th line guy. Still hope we bring in a pure good and that Duco isn't our only tough guy at FW when the season starts.
I dont know any members of the traveling media, so I cant ask. I dont believe that AV hates Ballard if he really id Gillis would trade Ballard.

Grabner scored 1 point in the playoffs, he was not something the Blackhawks planned for.

We should realy find another tree for this discussion though.

Duco seems like a good pickup for a guy we wouldnt use anyway.

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Old
07-10-2011, 07:19 PM
  #124
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i am looking forward to watching sportsnet connected and listening to don taylor go into his italian mobster impression every time "mike duco" is involved in a highlight (most likely for a fight or a goal against)

tried to read the rest of the thread but got headaches revisiting the grabner trade yet again (does nobody ever remember that florida waived him out of training camp?) and the laughable notion that sergei shirokov should've had a chance at a top-6 forward position on the best regular season team in the nhl

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07-10-2011, 07:28 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by CAPSLOCK REBEL View Post
Thats so wrong. You really think teams just let him score at will last year? Nhl players have to battle for every goal don't be bitter.
No, but teams adjust to snipers all the time. Grabner has a pretty distinct style to his game.

Next season hasn't happened yet, so let's put us both down for we'll see.

With the way people talk about him here, you'd think he'd put up 5 straight years of 30 goals or something. His NHL sample size is too small so far.
Quote:
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Really? you actually think this is worthy of being funny?


I thought it was funny.

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