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Old
07-10-2011, 04:33 PM
  #51
lancer247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Yeah, it's absurd.
i think means based on his potential. the guy was projected #1 overall pick a few months ago. I don't think anyone woould be disapointed with another Jordan Staal but he should turn out to be a muh better finisher then Staal, Primeau or Bind'amour was.

Maybe in two seasons:

JvR- Giroux - Voracek
Akeson - Coots - Simmonds
Read/UFA - Schenn - Nodl/UFA
Sestito - Talbot -Holstrom

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07-10-2011, 04:35 PM
  #52
JDinkalage Morgoone
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The guy hasn't stepped foot on professional ice. Let's give him a shot before talking about whether or not he'll fall short of his potential.

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Old
07-10-2011, 04:36 PM
  #53
JDinkalage Morgoone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lancer247 View Post
i think means based on his potential. the guy was projected #1 overall pick a few months ago. I don't think anyone woould be disapointed with another Jordan Staal but he should turn out to be a muh better finisher then Staal, Primeau or Bind'amour was.

Maybe in two seasons:

JvR- Giroux - Voracek
Akeson - Coots - Simmonds
Read/UFA - Schenn - Nodl/UFA
Sestito - Talbot -Holstrom

Take a look at that lineup and think to yourself, "that is the Philadelphia Flyers." I would never in a million years have guessed that if you showed me that team last season.

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Old
07-10-2011, 04:37 PM
  #54
Yoshimitsu
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Being "disappointed" with anything less than a player achieving the absolute pinnacle of his potential is not a realistic way to view prospects, but it's a great way to consistently set yourself up to be let down. Being a high draft pick is not a guarantee of success in the NHL.

Potential is such a nebulous idea. Considering how many top 10 picks either wash out or become mediocre players, I don't see how one could be disappointed with a 60+ point, good defensive player. Most draftees would kill to have a career like that.

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Old
07-10-2011, 04:37 PM
  #55
Haute Couturier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hXc Chris View Post
Thats not true, if whole thread happened last year and instead of compared to Ryan Kesler who had a 23/36 59 pt season I wouldve said the same thing. I think a top 10 draft pick who was rumored to go 1st or 2nd overall early on, only being used as a 3rd line shut down center is a disappointment.

Now if he was compared to Kesler from this season I would be much more excited. 25/50 75 pt season with a selke sounds would be awesome!

Jordan Staal is just a very poor mans Ryan Kesler at this point.
Staal is way better than Kesler was at the same age. Kesler didn't score 20 goals until he was 23 and didn't break the 40 point mark until he was 24. Staal did both as an 18 year old rookie.

Staal through the age of 22
369 GP 95 G 103 A 198 PTS
.26 gpg, .28 apg, .54 ppg

Kesler through the age of 22
158 GP 18 G 26 A 44 PTS
.11 gpg, .16 apg, .28 ppg

Kesler is better right now being 4 years older, but Staal will likely have the better career. Staal isn't the scrub some of you make him out to be.

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Old
07-10-2011, 04:39 PM
  #56
JDinkalage Morgoone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Staal is way better than Kesler was at the same age. Kesler didn't score 20 goals until he was 23 and didn't break the 40 point mark until he was 24. Staal did both as an 18 year old rookie.

Staal through the age of 22
369 GP 95 G 103 A 198 PTS
.26 gpg, .28 apg, .54 ppg

Kesler through the age of 22
158 GP 18 G 26 A 44 PTS
.11 gpg, .16 apg, .28 ppg

Kesler is better right now being 4 years older, but Staal will likely have the better career. Staal isn't the scrub some of you make him out to be.
I agree with this. I couldn't understand why so many people wanted Kesler so badly like they did a while back. Now he has developed.

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Old
07-10-2011, 04:46 PM
  #57
Haute Couturier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshimitsu View Post
Being "disappointed" with anything less than a player achieving the absolute pinnacle of his potential is not a realistic way to view prospects, but it's a great way to consistently set yourself up to be let down. Being a high draft pick is not a guarantee of success in the NHL.

Potential is such a nebulous idea. Considering how many top 10 picks either wash out or become mediocre players, I don't see how one could be disappointed with a 60+ point, good defensive player. Most draftees would kill to have a career like that.
Spot on. Carter and Richards have been exactly that the last two years and we considered them first line centers, but Couturier would be a bust if he settled into that? Fans have unrealistic expectations.

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Old
07-10-2011, 04:46 PM
  #58
FlyingHigh
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Good lord we need this damn season to start already.

If Coots' ceiling is Eric Staal we are in for a treat, if his ceiling is Jared Staal, we still got a great player. This discussion is apples to oranges. Sounds like a good problem to have. If some of you are disappointed by having J Staal on this team, i feel sorry for you, go ask pens fans how important he is to their team. Go ask Ray Shero why he hasn't traded Staal for better wingers for Crosby and Malkin. This team needs a shut down center. Ritchie was supposed to be the guy but he showed more offense then the scouts thought he possessed and was thrown into the top 2 lines. Briere was thrown around at wing, then came along Giroux. Ritchie was most likely taking a 3C role this year, but he's a King now.

Coots seems to be ideal as a check line center and comparable to J Staal(which he was) because of his size and 2 way capabilities. Size is crucial to that role. If he turns out to be more like Eric than all the better. And if that happens then someone will prolly be traded. Personally i see Giroux and Briere as FOR SURE #1 and #2 centers on this team. Both could play wing, but Lavvy seems intent on keeping both of them at center since they seem more effective there. Obviously Briere won't be around forever, but we will have plenty of time before Homer figures out who replaces him. Will Coots or Schenn be just as effective at wing? Carter wasn't. (yes i know Carter was 1 dimensional)

The real question for the Flyers is who will be more shut down, Schenn or Couturier?

Some problems are good to have, this is one.

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Old
07-10-2011, 04:51 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lancer247 View Post
i think means based on his potential. the guy was projected #1 overall pick a few months ago. I don't think anyone woould be disapointed with another Jordan Staal but he should turn out to be a muh better finisher then Staal, Primeau or Bind'amour was.

Maybe in two seasons:

JvR- Giroux - Voracek
Akeson - Coots - Simmonds
Read/UFA - Schenn - Nodl/UFA
Sestito - Talbot -Holstrom
Who cares what his potential is? Jordan Stall is a very good NHL player. Regardless of so-called potential, the majority of players just drafted will not come anywhere near what Staal has shown at this level. Seriously, there is a non-trivial chance Couterier never develops into the player Staal is today, let alone surpasses him.

If he equals him... We got a very good player, and being disappointed with that is ridiculous. If we get a better player, then everyone should be ecstatic. Generally speaking, the expected return around here is completely out of line with reality... This is another example of it.

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Old
07-10-2011, 04:59 PM
  #60
FlyingHigh
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I don't think anyone would be disappointed in adding a J Staal, Primeau, or Brind'amour(especially brindy) to this team.

"The Philadelphia Flyers are proud to select with the 8th overall pick in the 2011 NHL entry draft....Hall of Fame, back to back Selke winner, badass Rod Brind'amour"

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Old
07-10-2011, 06:18 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Who cares what his potential is? Jordan Stall is a very good NHL player. Regardless of so-called potential, the majority of players just drafted will not come anywhere near what Staal has shown at this level. Seriously, there is a non-trivial chance Couterier never develops into the player Staal is today, let alone surpasses him.

If he equals him... We got a very good player, and being disappointed with that is ridiculous. If we get a better player, then everyone should be ecstatic. Generally speaking, the expected return around here is completely out of line with reality... This is another example of it.
Do you mispell Couturier on purpose? Youve done it several times this thread.

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07-10-2011, 06:21 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Hextall89 View Post
The guy hasn't stepped foot on professional ice. Let's give him a shot before talking about whether or not he'll fall short of his potential.
yeah there is that and then we have some who have him penciled in for the HHOF when he is done with his hockey career. I think people on both sides of it need to simmer down.

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Old
07-10-2011, 06:46 PM
  #63
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i considered primeau a bust until about 2004. i hope he's better than primeau. im kiddin primeau's da bomb. but point of this is will he be a playa on this team and i think he will based on his size and abilities, its schen im worried about. a ton of pressure on him.

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Old
07-10-2011, 06:57 PM
  #64
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If we force couts into a defensive role he simply wont live up to his potential.
Sure defense is hugely important, but we have a top 10 goalie + defense for that...
Couts is an outstanding defensive player, and he has a great build to play defense, but if you've got his skills shutting other guys down is a waste of talent. They should be trying to shut him down.

Lecalvalier, that is his ceiling.

Let's not pigeon hole him into a two-way role until we see what he is can do offensively.

If he can make the jump to Winger and be offensive but responsible defensively id be much happier.

JvR and him would be lethal...

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Old
07-10-2011, 07:21 PM
  #65
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Funny how everyone here insists couturier should have been a top 3 pick when virtually no one here wanted him over Hamilton or whatever other D at the time of the draft

Now that hes in O&B he's going to be a hall of famer. And 90% of the posters here have seen nothing but YouTube clips

Typical HF cool aid

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Old
07-10-2011, 07:34 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
Funny how everyone here insists couturier should have been a top 3 pick when virtually no one here wanted him over Hamilton or whatever other D at the time of the draft

Now that hes in O&B he's going to be a hall of famer. And 90% of the posters here have seen nothing but YouTube clips

Typical HF cool aid
What are you talking about? The reason people are blowing him right now is because no one had ANY idea he'd drop to 8.

Everyone also wanted Larsson and Hamilton just based solely on need. Not because they are better than Cout (they may or may not technically be better).

People outside of Flyerland have called getting him at 8 one of the steals of the draft. People are excited to have gotten a top 3 talent at number 8. I am sure people would have also been thrilled to move down to 3 and have taken Larsson though.

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07-10-2011, 07:48 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by CerpinTaxt View Post
Do you mispell Couturier on purpose? Youve done it several times this thread.
Not on purpose.

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Old
07-10-2011, 07:55 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
Funny how everyone here insists couturier should have been a top 3 pick when virtually no one here wanted him over Hamilton or whatever other D at the time of the draft

Now that hes in O&B he's going to be a hall of famer. And 90% of the posters here have seen nothing but YouTube clips

Typical HF cool aid
Ahem

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Old
07-10-2011, 08:05 PM
  #69
tuckrr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
Funny how everyone here insists couturier should have been a top 3 pick when virtually no one here wanted him over Hamilton or whatever other D at the time of the draft

Now that hes in O&B he's going to be a hall of famer. And 90% of the posters here have seen nothing but YouTube clips

Typical HF cool aid
hey hey now.
i have ALWAYS wanted couturier behind larsson and RnH (maybe even over RNH in the long term)

just saying...ive had my coolaid for a long time

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Old
07-10-2011, 08:06 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Who cares what his potential is? Jordan Stall is a very good NHL player. Regardless of so-called potential, the majority of players just drafted will not come anywhere near what Staal has shown at this level. Seriously, there is a non-trivial chance Couterier never develops into the player Staal is today, let alone surpasses him.

If he equals him... We got a very good player, and being disappointed with that is ridiculous. If we get a better player, then everyone should be ecstatic. Generally speaking, the expected return around here is completely out of line with reality... This is another example of it.
i agree. if he turns out to be jordan staal i would be happy as a pig in poop. i just think some people were misunderstanding Chris' point that he has the potential to be even better.

if he turns out like jordan, eric or anywhere in between homer won that trade.

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Old
07-10-2011, 08:08 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lancer247 View Post
i agree. if he turns out to be jordan staal i would be happy as a pig in poop. i just think some people were misunderstanding Chris' point that he has the potential to be even better.

if he turns out like jordan, eric or anywhere in between homer won that trade.
No, Chris clearly stated, and then reiterated, that Jordan Staal would be a disappointing result.

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Old
07-10-2011, 08:21 PM
  #72
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hey hey now.
i have ALWAYS wanted couturier behind larsson and RnH (maybe even over RNH in the long term)

just saying...ive had my coolaid for a long time
There were a few, but not many

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Old
07-10-2011, 08:22 PM
  #73
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Coots? That is one ****ing terrible nickname.

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Old
07-10-2011, 08:32 PM
  #74
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Too much nit picking here guys. Give it a rest why don't ya

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Old
07-10-2011, 08:44 PM
  #75
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jesus christ, preseason hockey cannot get here soon enough.

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