HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > Other Sports > Baseball
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Baseball MLB, NCAA, International

Jair Jurrjens is MVP material

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-03-2011, 12:10 PM
  #26
dfk711*
The real #11
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Atlanta
Country: Finland
Posts: 20,086
vCash: 500
And all it took was trading Edgar Renteria to the Tigers

dfk711* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2011, 04:36 PM
  #27
darko
Registered User
 
darko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Country: Australia
Posts: 31,228
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by canucksfan View Post
Or one of the biggest homers. He stated that Heyward last year would get 50 HR and over 150 RBIs.

Oh snap, I didnt realise Cena was AtlantaSportsFan. Same guy who called Omar Infante a star after his batting average hovered around .340 mid-year.

darko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2011, 04:56 PM
  #28
Zeus54
Trollololol
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: on tilt
Posts: 6,272
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by canucksfan View Post
Or one of the biggest homers. He stated that Heyward last year would get 50 HR and over 150 RBIs.
Pretty sure he predicted 200 RBIs for Heyward.

Zeus54 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-04-2011, 09:36 AM
  #29
vwg*
Scoring Not Allowed
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Krasnoyarsk
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 19,957
vCash: 500
Lol. ASF never fails to embarrass other Braves fans.

vwg* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2011, 09:30 PM
  #30
dfk711*
The real #11
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Atlanta
Country: Finland
Posts: 20,086
vCash: 500
Another great game for Jurrjens tonight

dfk711* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2011, 09:34 PM
  #31
Francesa
Moderator
(╯□)╯︵ SƖ ןɥu ɐǝ
 
Francesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 186,715
vCash: 500
Cy Young AINEC.

Francesa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2011, 11:58 PM
  #32
John Cena*
12x WWE CHAMPION!!!!
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Country: United States
Posts: 11,527
vCash: 500
12 wins.. haters gon hatre lollll

second best record in baseball. BEAST. Jurrjenns has it locked up.

John Cena* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2011, 12:17 AM
  #33
El Dandy*
...Menace To Society
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Dry Island
Posts: 9,767
vCash: 500
Who's hatin?

Braves are now gonna have back-to-back NL mvp's. FACT, dawg.

Atlanta has racked up all the major awards the last 2 years playa. MVP to Heyward last year. ROTY to Heyward last year. Comeback player of the year last year to Glaus. World Series MVP to Heyward last year. Now Jurgeinsnsns will be Cy Young and keep the NL MVP in house.

El Dandy* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2011, 12:18 AM
  #34
Yoshimitsu
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 5,020
vCash: 500
Heyward is probably going to win comeback player of the year this year.

Yoshimitsu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2011, 09:23 AM
  #35
canucksfan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 24,990
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshimitsu View Post
Heyward is probably going to win comeback player of the year this year.
I don't know about that, Uggla is not too far off.

canucksfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2011, 02:51 PM
  #36
Doctor Drej
Unregistered User
 
Doctor Drej's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: The Quiet Room
Country: United States
Posts: 10,920
vCash: 500
Asdrubal Cabrera for MVP.

Slightly homer, but also for damn good reason. Dude has played every game so far and puts up the numbers and defense on top of it.

Doctor Drej is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2011, 04:03 PM
  #37
Yoshimitsu
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 5,020
vCash: 500
Jason Heyward for AL Manager of the Year.

Yoshimitsu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2011, 10:06 PM
  #38
darko
Registered User
 
darko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Country: Australia
Posts: 31,228
vCash: 500
Roger McDowell? Yeah right, Jason Heyward turned Jurrjens into a superstud he is today.

darko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2011, 04:23 PM
  #39
Rhodes 81
grit those teeth
 
Rhodes 81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Atlanta
Country: United States
Posts: 12,190
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazinga View Post
He isnt even in line to win the Cy Young award.
that's just a retarded thing to say. most wins and best era in the nl. and if he hadn't missed the first 2 weeks of the season he would probably have at least one more win. take off your philly homer glasses and admit it's possible that there are better pitchers than the ones on your team.

Rhodes 81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2011, 04:27 PM
  #40
Rhodes 81
grit those teeth
 
Rhodes 81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Atlanta
Country: United States
Posts: 12,190
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazinga View Post
those are the only stats that he has them beat in, every other stat goes to the triumvirate.
who cares how many strikeouts you have if you give up 2 homeruns a game

i'd rather have a pitcher with no strikeouts that doesn't let the other team score than one with 12ks and gives up 3 runs a game

Rhodes 81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2011, 04:28 PM
  #41
Yoshimitsu
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 5,020
vCash: 500
Oh, look, he thinks ERA and Wins are good stats. How cute.

The Phillies have 3 pitchers that have been better than Jurrjens.

Yoshimitsu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2011, 04:31 PM
  #42
Rhodes 81
grit those teeth
 
Rhodes 81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Atlanta
Country: United States
Posts: 12,190
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshimitsu View Post
Oh, look, he thinks ERA and Wins are good stats. How cute.

The Phillies have 3 pitchers that have been better than Jurrjens.
the pitcher's job is to not let the other team score, right? so why is the average number of runs the pitcher let's the other team score a bad stat? can you please tell me that.

Rhodes 81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2011, 04:33 PM
  #43
Justified
Moderator
Amaro out
 
Justified's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 29,718
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhodes 81 View Post
who cares how many strikeouts you have if you give up 2 homeruns a game

i'd rather have a pitcher with no strikeouts that doesn't let the other team score than one with 12ks and gives up 3 runs a game
who gives up 2 home runs a game?

Justified is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2011, 04:36 PM
  #44
Rhodes 81
grit those teeth
 
Rhodes 81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Atlanta
Country: United States
Posts: 12,190
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazinga View Post
who gives up 2 home runs a game?
nobody in particular, but generally pitchers that rely on power give up a lot more home runs than pitchers that pitch for contact. this obsession people have where they think you have to throw 95+ to be a good pitcher is just ridiculous.

Rhodes 81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2011, 04:42 PM
  #45
Justified
Moderator
Amaro out
 
Justified's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 29,718
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhodes 81 View Post
nobody in particular, but generally pitchers that rely on power give up a lot more home runs than pitchers that pitch for contact. this obsession people have where they think you have to throw 95+ to be a good pitcher is just ridiculous.
yeah but Halladay is having just as good of a year as him and he doesnt shouldnt even garner any MVP votes.

Justified is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2011, 04:50 PM
  #46
Rhodes 81
grit those teeth
 
Rhodes 81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Atlanta
Country: United States
Posts: 12,190
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazinga View Post
yeah but Halladay is having just as good of a year as him and he doesnt shouldnt even garner any MVP votes.
i don't believe for a second any pitcher should win the mvp. i just think jurrjens is in contention for the cy young if the season ended today. of course anything can happen in the 2nd half.

the phillies have a better starting rotation than the braves, and anyone that tells you otherwise is insane. i personally think jurrjens and hanson are just as dominant as the phillies' big three, but there's only two of them, and hudson and lowe are on the decline and beachy, while good for a rookie, is a rookie and thus inconsistent.

that said you'll have a hard time convincing me the braves don't have the 2nd best rotation in the nl. after all neither team's offense is setting the world on fire and both have had a lot of games lost to key players, yet they have the 1st and 3rd best records in baseball. you don't do that without tremendous pitching.

Rhodes 81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2011, 03:51 PM
  #47
Yoshimitsu
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 5,020
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhodes 81 View Post
the pitcher's job is to not let the other team score, right? so why is the average number of runs the pitcher let's the other team score a bad stat? can you please tell me that.
It isn't hard to understand, but I'll explain anyway.

Wins and ERA are bad stats for individual players because they take into account elements beyond the control of the pitcher. Three of the major components that contribute to ERA are park factors, team defense, and luck. A stat that relies heavily on the entire team is not a good metric to judge individual players. You wouldn't use total goals allowed to judge a goalie (unless you're an idiot), so why would you use ERA to judge a pitcher? It's the same thing. ERA would only be a "good" stat if the pitcher was the only factor in run prevention. He isn't, not by a longshot.

Stats like FIP, xFIP, tRA, and SIERA do not include things beyond the control of the pitcher, thus they paint a significantly more accurate picture. Defense independent pitching stats have been statistcally proven, multiple times, to be better indicators of future performance than ERA.

Jurrjens has had an excellent season thus far, but if you examine the most accurate, advanced metrics, you will see that the Phillies' big three has clearly been better.

Yoshimitsu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2011, 04:28 PM
  #48
Francesa
Moderator
(╯□)╯︵ SƖ ןɥu ɐǝ
 
Francesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 186,715
vCash: 500
It is against the law to assess a pitcher's worth using wins.

I'm no Sabremetric guru but even I know that.

Will not say the same about ERA though. I still use that

Francesa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2011, 04:37 PM
  #49
Timeless Winter
Oceans of Grey
 
Timeless Winter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 16,044
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Timeless Winter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshimitsu View Post
It isn't hard to understand, but I'll explain anyway.

Wins and ERA are bad stats for individual players because they take into account elements beyond the control of the pitcher. Three of the major components that contribute to ERA are park factors, team defense, and luck. A stat that relies heavily on the entire team is not a good metric to judge individual players. You wouldn't use total goals allowed to judge a goalie (unless you're an idiot), so why would you use ERA to judge a pitcher? It's the same thing. ERA would only be a "good" stat if the pitcher was the only factor in run prevention. He isn't, not by a longshot.

Stats like FIP, xFIP, tRA, and SIERA do not include things beyond the control of the pitcher, thus they paint a significantly more accurate picture. Defense independent pitching stats have been statistcally proven, multiple times, to be better indicators of future performance than ERA.

Jurrjens has had an excellent season thus far, but if you examine the most accurate, advanced metrics, you will see that the Phillies' big three has clearly been better.
Good post.

Timeless Winter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2011, 04:43 PM
  #50
Francesa
Moderator
(╯□)╯︵ SƖ ןɥu ɐǝ
 
Francesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 186,715
vCash: 500
I've been trying to wean myself off ERA but I'm addicted. Even though Sabremetrics have taken over baseball, ESPN and MLB.com, as well as team broadcasts, continue to evaluate pitchers using wins and ERA.

Perhaps I should go somewhere more indie

Francesa is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:31 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.