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07-10-2011, 05:32 PM
  #501
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Booth is pretty dad-gum overrated. He's put up Higgins/Ryder esque numbers his career and isn't nearly as tough as those two players.

If I could pry one player away from Florida it would be Weiss, but then we'd be stuck in a situation where we'd have to deal Stepan.
No one is overrating Booth. We arent saying hes a superstar. He's a good player, that can score 30 goals, he gives 100% effort every shift, he's one of the fastest skaters in the league, has good size, and goes hard to the net.

But luckily Kreider is similar with more upside.

We are lucky to have Kreider and Miller in the system coming up soon. The void of more top six talent could be filled in a year.

But, I was just suggesting that if we were to trade for a guy like Booth our lineup, at least on paper, looks more complete.

Leslie hinted that although Sather mentioned he wasn't looking to trade for a LW to complete the top line, that they still acknowledge its a hole that needs to be filled in a perfect world. Maybe after they get Dubi, Cally, and Boyle signed, they could look into it before camp starts.

If not Dubi and Fedotenko could slot in there. Both would provide that grit needed on the line to compliment Richards-Gaborik. And wait the year for Kreider and also possibly Miller and suddenly we have a lot of options up and down the lineup.

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07-10-2011, 05:35 PM
  #502
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Based on his faceoff numbers, it probably 38.5% Stepan who'd be the candidate to move over 43% Anisimov.

But Stepan at LW was ineffective last season, and Anisimov is and always has been a center.

Unless Boyle is moved (Which I am also against) It'll be Richards, Anisimov, Stepan, Boyle down the middle, and likely in that order. Provides excellent depth and injury possibilities.

LW we have Dubinsky, Wolski, Avery, Fedotenko, Rupp to play with, and thats ignoring Hagelin.

RW is the bigger place of need than LW, and we have no real cadidates to switch to that position save Fedotenko. Gaborik, Callahan, Prust are 3 locks, with a spot to be won by either a position changer, rookie, or Zuccarello

So, frankly, if we're going to show concern over this roster it should be who fits that last RW spot, and who is manning our 3rd pair D rather than getting another LWer.
Very curious as to what you're basing that "likelihood" on. Is it the fact that Stepan, while two years younger, with three years less experience in the pro game, and a year less of NHL experience, and getting less ice-time with skilled wingers, matched Anisimov's production? (he actually outscored him by a point and had more goals)

Stepan:

NHL Rookie
First year in any professional league
First time playing an 82+ game season
Less ice-time with the Rangers best wingers.
21 goals, 45 points

Anisimov:

NHL Sophomore
Fourth year in a professional league
Played majority of the season with Dubinsky and Callahan who were our best wingers
18 goals, 44 points

I don't think it's either's spot to lose. But I'd say if it's leaning towards anyone, it's Stepan at this point. Anisimov fits the bill as a 3rd line checking center more than Stepan, who is an offensive zone specialist.

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07-10-2011, 05:53 PM
  #503
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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
Very curious as to what you're basing that "likelihood" on. Is it the fact that Stepan, while two years younger, with three years less experience in the pro game, and a year less of NHL experience, and getting less ice-time with skilled wingers, matched Anisimov's production? (he actually outscored him by a point and had more goals)

Stepan:

NHL Rookie
First year in any professional league
First time playing an 82+ game season
Less ice-time with the Rangers best wingers.
21 goals, 45 points

Anisimov:

NHL Sophomore
Fourth year in a professional league
Played majority of the season with Dubinsky and Callahan who were our best wingers
18 goals, 44 points

I don't think it's either's spot to lose. But I'd say if it's leaning towards anyone, it's Stepan at this point. Anisimov fits the bill as a 3rd line checking center more than Stepan, who is an offensive zone specialist.
Could it be that Dubinsky/Anisimov/Callahan shows great chemistry and it makes a lot more sense to keep that together and let AA play on the second line? Because that seems pretty much obvious to me in everyone's projected lineups.

However, I think it's also pretty clear that if we're going to keep both of them, eventually Stepan will be #2 and AA will be #3 (though with quality wingers, we would ideally have Richards @1, Stepan @2a and AA @2b) as AA has a strong two-way game and would be better suited for the third line than Stepan who has more premier puck distribution abilities. But I think for now, as he'll only be a sophomore (and many players have a down year their second year) it makes more sense to keep AA with Dubi/Cally and start Stepan on the next line. Over time, they'll probably switch. Not necessarily this season (I smell a break out year from AA) but over time.

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07-10-2011, 05:58 PM
  #504
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With Gaborik's problem scoring last year, the Anisimov line faced the other teams best defenders on most nights. Also, Dubinsky and Callahan missed significant time last year so Anisimov wasn't with them for all 82 games.

Stepan was playing against the 3rd pairings of most teams while on the 3rd line and Anisimov was matched up against the other teams best offensive lines and had the responsibility of shutting them down.

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07-10-2011, 06:06 PM
  #505
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I just don't see what Wolski adds to our team. Just being honest here. He does not seem fit as he was a non factor the majority of games he played. Unless there is a major turn around (a la Boyle), I think he's short.

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07-10-2011, 06:29 PM
  #506
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Hmmmm... people are throwing around some good ideas but honestly I don't think it's a good idea to mess around with

Dubi-Arty-Cally

Wolski-Steps-Zucca

Feds-Boyle-Prust

those lines were very effective last year (ok, you can argue that the Stepan line wasn't THAT great, but I think they should get a little more time together).

I'm still thinking you try the forechecking grinder (Avery) and the finesse option (Christensen) and go with what works the best. I think either has a chance to put their game WAY over the top playing with a couple of guys like Gabby and Brad. Has anyone seen the way Avery can cycle and make good plays?... has anyone seen EC when he gets some open ice? Sure it's experimentation... but we don't have a bonafide top line LW without breaking up the PACK line... and if I'm Torts I don't want to do that, they could absolutely tear up secondary defensive pairs. You're gonna have to be creative, hopefully that's what they use the preseason for.

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07-10-2011, 06:49 PM
  #507
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Originally Posted by SouthJerseyRanger View Post
Hmmmm... people are throwing around some good ideas but honestly I don't think it's a good idea to mess around with

Dubi-Arty-Cally

Wolski-Steps-Zucca

Feds-Boyle-Prust

those lines were very effective last year (ok, you can argue that the Stepan line wasn't THAT great, but I think they should get a little more time together).

I'm still thinking you try the forechecking grinder (Avery) and the finesse option (Christensen) and go with what works the best. I think either has a chance to put their game WAY over the top playing with a couple of guys like Gabby and Brad. Has anyone seen the way Avery can cycle and make good plays?... has anyone seen EC when he gets some open ice? Sure it's experimentation... but we don't have a bonafide top line LW without breaking up the PACK line... and if I'm Torts I don't want to do that, they could absolutely tear up secondary defensive pairs. You're gonna have to be creative, hopefully that's what they use the preseason for.
Wolski-Stepan-Zuccarello would be so bad defensively, and turnover over the puck so much, it would be a liability.

Its more acceptable when its a line that has a potential 40-50 goal scorer and a potential 90+ point playmaker.

Its not acceptable when its your third line.

One of the reasons id like Hagelin there and one of Wolski/Zuccarello with Stepan. So the extra two way player will increase Tortorella's confidence in the line.

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07-10-2011, 06:52 PM
  #508
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Originally Posted by Prustqvist24 View Post
Could it be that Dubinsky/Anisimov/Callahan shows great chemistry and it makes a lot more sense to keep that together and let AA play on the second line? Because that seems pretty much obvious to me in everyone's projected lineups.

That is my thinking yes. I was not trying to insinuate that Anisimov is or will be better then Stepan (I think he is currently, by the way, but thats irrelevant)

It is more about the pack line's progression. Stepan showed decent play as a 3rd liner with Avery and Fedotenko early last year. I wouldnt mind seeing that line tried again, with Wolski-Richards-Gaborik, the Pack line, the Stepan line, and Rupp-Boyle-Prust line in that order. To me, that represents a good rollable 4 lines.

Also, Stepan can continue to learn and play the right point on the 2nd PP unit. That will give him space to make plays with his vision, and won't exacerbate his faceoff issues or his relatively poor play against big defensemen.

I don't want to be forced into a scenario like last year where we are rolling a reject 4th line of a mix of mediocre players like Avery and Christensen with no chemistry and forcing the Boyle-Prust line above their heads.

If you're not comfortable with Wolski playing top line LW then we can always get Prospal. Not sure where that leaves Wolly though as he is generally not a good bottom 6 player.

Wolski-Richards-Gaborik
Dubinsky-Anisimov-Callahan
Avery-Stepan-Fedotenko
Rupp-Boyle_Prust

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07-10-2011, 06:55 PM
  #509
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
That is my thinking yes. I was not trying to insinuate that Anisimov is or will be better then Stepan (I think he is currently, by the way, but thats irrelevant)

It is more about the pack line's progression. Stepan showed decent play as a 3rd liner with Avery and Fedotenko early last year. I wouldnt mind seeing that line tried again, with Wolski-Richards-Gaborik, the Pack line, the Stepan line, and Rupp-Boyle-Prust line in that order. To me, that represents a good rollable 4 lines.

Also, Stepan can continue to learn and play the right point on the 2nd PP unit. That will give him space to make plays with his vision, and won't exacerbate his faceoff issues or his relatively poor play against big defensemen.

I don't want to be forced into a scenario like last year where we are rolling a reject 4th line of a mix of mediocre players like Avery and Christensen with no chemistry and forcing the Boyle-Prust line above their heads.

If you're not comfortable with Wolski playing top line LW then we can always get Prospal. Not sure where that leaves Wolly though as he is generally not a good bottom 6 player.

Wolski-Richards-Gaborik
Dubinsky-Anisimov-Callahan
Avery-Stepan-Fedotenko
Rupp-Boyle_Prust
In theory, the Wolski-Richards-Gaborik line on paper, looks like a line that should do some considerable damage offensively. However, defensively is where they may run into some trouble.

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07-10-2011, 06:58 PM
  #510
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Im worried about Wolski getting top line minutes, to say the least.

And just don't see what he can contribute to that line. They need a gritty player there. Wolski is too passive, IMO.

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07-10-2011, 09:29 PM
  #511
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If Wolski can't contribute on that line, I really don't think he's going to contribute anywhere, in which case, he should be a healthy scratch for the majority of the year. But I'm for giving him that chance. And maybe then a chance on Callahan's line if they decide to play Dubinsky up there. We deserve to give ourselves a chance on the skill guy before we go to Dubinsky, Avery, Fedotenko, Rupp down the left side which is a healthy dose of grit but a bit lacking on overall scoring prowess.

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07-10-2011, 09:45 PM
  #512
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Dubinsky and Callahan clicked with everyone they played with. It certainly wasn't exclusive to Anisimov. Anisimov arguably clicked with every line he played with that too.

Dubinsky-Stepan-Callahan was almost as effective as Dubi-Ani-Cally. If Stepan was the center on that line as long as Anisimov his point totals probably would've been better.

Chemistry is so overrated when it comes to players like these guys, they work their ***** off. They're going to put up decent point totals no matter what.

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07-10-2011, 09:48 PM
  #513
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
Dubinsky and Callahan clicked with everyone they played with. It certainly wasn't exclusive to Anisimov. Anisimov arguably clicked with every line he played with that too.

Dubinsky-Stepan-Callahan was almost as effective as Dubi-Ani-Cally. If Stepan was the center on that line as long as Anisimov his point totals probably would've been better.

Chemistry is so overrated when it comes to players like these guys, they work their ***** off. They're going to put up decent point totals no matter what.
Honestly, I don't remember it that way at all. Stepan looked out of synch with them in the offensive zone, and while the 2 way ability is there, he wasn't as defensively sound as Anisimov.

But it wasnt together for too many games, so it was a small sample size.

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07-10-2011, 09:53 PM
  #514
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
If Wolski can't contribute on that line, I really don't think he's going to contribute anywhere, in which case, he should be a healthy scratch for the majority of the year. But I'm for giving him that chance. And maybe then a chance on Callahan's line if they decide to play Dubinsky up there. We deserve to give ourselves a chance on the skill guy before we go to Dubinsky, Avery, Fedotenko, Rupp down the left side which is a healthy dose of grit but a bit lacking on overall scoring prowess.
wolski makes too much $$ to be a healthy scratch...if he doesn't play well enough to stay in the lineup then waive him and if no one wants him bury his contract in the minors. maybe we can use that cap space at the deadline

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07-11-2011, 12:38 AM
  #515
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Pretty much every where I look, where they talk about NHL hockey, if the subject of Wolski even comes up, the word used most often is "useless".

I really doubt this guy gets past the first few days of camp with Tort's this year. I'm sure Tort's was very honest at season's end with him so hopefully he's ready and surprises the crap outa me. I'd like nothing better. Too much talent going to waste.

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07-11-2011, 07:08 AM
  #516
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Booth is pretty dad-gum overrated. He's put up Higgins/Ryder esque numbers his career and isn't nearly as tough as those two players.

If I could pry one player away from Florida it would be Weiss, but then we'd be stuck in a situation where we'd have to deal Stepan.
I think Booth is considerably "tougher" than Michael Ryder. Higgins, no, but I don't see why you would consider Michael Ryder "tough" in any capacity.

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07-11-2011, 07:41 AM
  #517
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Im worried about Wolski getting top line minutes, to say the least.

And just don't see what he can contribute to that line. They need a gritty player there. Wolski is too passive, IMO.

Glen and Torts know they need some skill on this squad, they someone who can put the puck in the net. They're hopin WW can be one of those guys. I'm not disagreeing with you that they need grit... but they really need goals and they need them consistently.

I'm not much of a Wolski fan, but he's working with Underhill, and making an effort. He'll get every shot at #1 LW. It may not work out, in fact I thought for sure he'd be bought out, but it looks like the NYR are gonna hope he can regain the form of a few years ago.

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07-11-2011, 09:02 AM
  #518
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
If Wolski can't contribute on that line, I really don't think he's going to contribute anywhere, in which case, he should be a healthy scratch for the majority of the year. But I'm for giving him that chance. And maybe then a chance on Callahan's line if they decide to play Dubinsky up there. We deserve to give ourselves a chance on the skill guy before we go to Dubinsky, Avery, Fedotenko, Rupp down the left side which is a healthy dose of grit but a bit lacking on overall scoring prowess.
Oh, definitely he should get the chance, I agree. It makes sense. Have to test it for a few games to see if it clicks.

Im just saying I don't feel he will fit there for long. Based on what we have seen last season.

I feel we need some grit and two way play in that spot.

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07-11-2011, 09:06 AM
  #519
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Originally Posted by Riche16 View Post
Glen and Torts know they need some skill on this squad, they someone who can put the puck in the net. They're hopin WW can be one of those guys. I'm not disagreeing with you that they need grit... but they really need goals and they need them consistently.

I'm not much of a Wolski fan, but he's working with Underhill, and making an effort. He'll get every shot at #1 LW. It may not work out, in fact I thought for sure he'd be bought out, but it looks like the NYR are gonna hope he can regain the form of a few years ago.
Im in full support of him getting a chance. Because this year the options for that spot are limited. But I just don't think he will last there. Id love to be proven wrong.

The skill is there. But he lacks that aggressive attitude.

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07-11-2011, 12:34 PM
  #520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riche16 View Post
Glen and Torts know they need some skill on this squad, they someone who can put the puck in the net. They're hopin WW can be one of those guys. I'm not disagreeing with you that they need grit... but they really need goals and they need them consistently.

I'm not much of a Wolski fan, but he's working with Underhill, and making an effort. He'll get every shot at #1 LW. It may not work out, in fact I thought for sure he'd be bought out, but it looks like the NYR are gonna hope he can regain the form of a few years ago.
Skill is one thing but they need consistent skill.

I'm not sure what's in the cards for Wolski but something tells me that it's most likely not Torts choice to roll the dice on WW to play on one of the top left wing spots.

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