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The Case For Trading Pekka Rinne

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Old
07-05-2011, 12:05 PM
  #1
Joe T Choker
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The Case For Trading Pekka Rinne

http://www.ontheforecheck.com/2011/7...nne-ryan-suter

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07-05-2011, 12:11 PM
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The thought of watching Lindback start a majority of the games is still scary at this point.

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07-05-2011, 12:22 PM
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I read it. You make good points. But no.

With all due respect to Vokoun, Rinne is the best goaltender we've ever had. While he might not be in the top 3 Vezina next year, the odds that he falls apart are slim to none.

With Rinne, we will always have a chance. Always. As good as our defense is, he's pulled us out of the fire more times than I could count last year.

I can't say that for Lindback, yet. Hellberg is a solid prospect. Pickard/Smith are close to being non-factors.

If it came down to Rinne/Suter, you take Rinne. We've picked Weber as the face of the franchise, #1 D-man for the long haul for better or worse. Which means that Suter is always going to be the #2 - and he'll command #1 money. And as we've seen, the goalie market is weak - Suter is likely to net us a better player/prospect than Rinne will.

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07-05-2011, 12:27 PM
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If I'm Poile, the guy I'm looking to trade is Blum. His value is incredibly high and he's established himself as a legit second pairing Dman at 22 signed for another season at under $1M. And we have the depth to replace him. Obviously, there would be a drop off. But it could be worth it to add the quality forward we want.

Rinne seems crazy to trade from the simple fact that the market for goalies never seems as strong. I think the return would be significantly less than we'd like. Though I don't feel comfortable paying him $7M a year until he's 33 or so. In the end, I agree that is he is the most "replaceable." But I think that the return might sour any trade.

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07-05-2011, 12:30 PM
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No...here's why:

How much is it worth to a team and its coach to know that somewhere around 60-65 games a year, you have the best goaltender on the ice, a guy that can on occasion totally dominate the play and even steal games, a guy that erases the mistakes of the 5 skaters in front of him, someone who you don't have to gameplan around because of deficiencies, who doesn't implode and for a team that can't score very much swing the balance of the game back to even terms? Just because the Preds have been good (or lucky) at the revolving door in net, why would we think that this would necessarily repeat itself again? (it seems that there is a certain group of fans that just assumes "the next guy" will be just as good if given a chance because that's always the way its been in Nashville) Teams that have solid goaltending win, teams that don't lose. Finally, according to Poile (if you can believe anything he says) and others, the trade value of goaltenders is much less than it used to be, so how much real return can a team expect?

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07-05-2011, 01:07 PM
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I would rather lose Suter than Rinne. Actually, it's an easy choice for me.

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07-05-2011, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian Pred View Post
I would rather lose Suter than Rinne. Actually, it's an easy choice for me.
I agree. I'd much rather do Suter for Stamkos than Rinne for Stamkos...

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07-05-2011, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLake View Post
I agree. I'd much rather do Suter for Stamkos than Rinne for Stamkos...
I'd do either so fast I'd probably misspell my name in the paperwork filed to the league.

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07-05-2011, 07:36 PM
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Would Suter get us Stamkos (or for that matter Parise)?? IF there's scoring strength with a great D corps, stranger things have happened i.e. Niemi, Chris freakin Osgood, Cam Ward......

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07-05-2011, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyClause View Post
I'd do either so fast I'd probably misspell my name in the paperwork filed to the league.
If you could tell me that I could keep two of Suter/Weber/Rinne, and trade the other for Stamkos. All three are on the table. This is coming from someone who considers Suter/Weber among the top 7-8 elite defensemen, and who considers Rinne one of the best goaltenders in the league (easily top 5).

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07-05-2011, 08:01 PM
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If you could tell me that I could keep two of Suter/Weber/Rinne, and trade the other for Stamkos. All three are on the table.
Me too. Rinne first. Mitch Korn could teach at least one person on this boards to be a top 10 goalie.

My gut is keep Suter b/c Weber isn't Weber without Suter. However, Weber probably is Weber with Blum. There is no alternative at all for Weber, although Suter would be a stud regardless.

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07-06-2011, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian Pred View Post
I would rather lose Suter than Rinne. Actually, it's an easy choice for me.
Agreed. This Rinne year wasn't a fluke. And I believe Blum is a Suter replacement if need be.

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07-11-2011, 05:20 AM
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I agree with author, Suter is more difficult to replace than Rinne. However, I don't think Rinne begets Stamkos for the same reason. Stamkos is harder to replace than Rinne.

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07-11-2011, 07:44 AM
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I agree with author, Suter is more difficult to replace than Rinne. However, I don't think Rinne begets Stamkos for the same reason. Stamkos is harder to replace than Rinne.
This.

The offseason these past two years has demonstrated that goalies are a dime a dozen.

Tomas Vokoun is an All-Star and had to take a huge paycut just to have a job.

Same thing with the Neimi.. win the Cup, and end up having to beg for a job.

Almost every season some backup replaces a perceived "star" goalie.

For that reason, I dont see any GM making a huge trade to acquire a goalie.

Rinne is incredbly valuable to us, but he's not so valuable to other teams.

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07-11-2011, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
This.

The offseason these past two years has demonstrated that goalies are a dime a dozen.

Tomas Vokoun is an All-Star and had to take a huge paycut just to have a job.

Same thing with the Neimi.. win the Cup, and end up having to beg for a job.

Almost every season some backup replaces a perceived "star" goalie.

For that reason, I dont see any GM making a huge trade to acquire a goalie.

Rinne is incredbly valuable to us, but he's not so valuable to other teams.
the offseason has shown that....BUT, look at the cup final teams. Two outstanding goalies in Luongo and Thomas. Yeah, Vokoun took a pay cut. Did Washington pay for all his playoff wins? I am not saying a goalie is the end all be all of hockey, but I do not think it is fair to undervalue them to make ourselves beleive rinne can be shortchanged. With another Vezina type season, he will be a 5-6 million dollar goalie. Even with a terrible season, he will command 3.5-4.5 I think.

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07-11-2011, 08:37 AM
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the offseason has shown that....BUT, look at the cup final teams. Two outstanding goalies in Luongo and Thomas. Yeah, Vokoun took a pay cut. Did Washington pay for all his playoff wins? I am not saying a goalie is the end all be all of hockey, but I do not think it is fair to undervalue them to make ourselves beleive rinne can be shortchanged. With another Vezina type season, he will be a 5-6 million dollar goalie. Even with a terrible season, he will command 3.5-4.5 I think.
My point was that while gms pay good money for a good goalie they are unlikely to trade major assets for one since there are usually quality goalies available in excess every summer

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07-11-2011, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
My point was that while gms pay good money for a good goalie they are unlikely to trade major assets for one since there are usually quality goalies available in excess every summer
I understood your point. Unless a gm is half corky, (colorado) assets generally don't get moved.

When was the last time an elite goalie was a free agent? The guys signing now haven't proved much (vokoun) really aren't top tier goalies (leighton and boucher etc), or past their prime (theodore, giggy)

I guess bryz almost fell into that cat, but I don't know whether to lump him with vokoun or consider his circumstances in PHO, which you would have to give vokoun the same.

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07-11-2011, 10:05 AM
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I understood your point. Unless a gm is half corky, (colorado) assets generally don't get moved.

When was the last time an elite goalie was a free agent? The guys signing now haven't proved much (vokoun) really aren't top tier goalies (leighton and boucher etc), or past their prime (theodore, giggy)

I guess bryz almost fell into that cat, but I don't know whether to lump him with vokoun or consider his circumstances in PHO, which you would have to give vokoun the same.

thats what I meant. GMs will pay a lot to lock up their own good/great goalies, so they dont hit free agency at their peaks.... what happens is they subsequently get passed up by a backup on the rise and arent worth their huge money and then end up signing for reasonable money when they become UFAs.

therefore GMs wont usually trade a lot of assets for a goalie that might get passed up by a backup anyway

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07-11-2011, 10:31 AM
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the offseason has shown that....BUT, look at the cup final teams. Two outstanding goalies in Luongo and Thomas. Yeah, Vokoun took a pay cut. Did Washington pay for all his playoff wins? I am not saying a goalie is the end all be all of hockey, but I do not think it is fair to undervalue them to make ourselves beleive rinne can be shortchanged. With another Vezina type season, he will be a 5-6 million dollar goalie. Even with a terrible season, he will command 3.5-4.5 I think.
Are Thomas and Luongo two outstanding goalies? Thomas was on his way out of Boston after last years performance and then had an all world season this year. While 2 of the last 3 years he's been great, his middle performance was terrible. I love Thomas and think he's a great goalie but with any goalie, you can be up and down. Luongo is the most overrated goalie in the league IMO. Other than having an all world team in front of him during the Olympics, what has he won? He hasn't won a Cup. This season he had a great team playing in front of him. I know he puts up great stats for you in our league but how often does the guy steal you wins? The guy is a head case, always has been always will be.

The big question of who's more valuable to our team of the big three I think was answered this past year. Rinne goes down early, we win with Lindback in net. Suter goes down and we have Rinne back and we don't play very well, especially Weber who had to be paired with Bouillon. Is that on Shea or the coaching staff for not having the right defense partner out there. At the time, we didn't really have any options to fill Suter's shoes. A lot of people say it's hard to come across a guy like Weber and his skill set. Well, isn't it hard to find a guy with Suter's skill set too? A guy who play one on one with anyone in the league and shut them down without having to use brute force? Is it easy to find a guy who can handle the puck as well as he does?

At this point, it's between Suter and Weber to me. If we look at our system and certain guys develop, especially Josi, Suter is more expendable but if Josi and Ellis don't develop, I think it's hard trying to find replacements for either Suter or Weber. Then again, we'd just have a different look to our defense corp.

I think the days of finding and keeping a franchise goalie like Roy, Brodeur or the likes of those guys is waning more and more. We saw what Philly was willing to give up to get a franchise type goalie in Bryz but does that move make them a better team losing Richards and Carter and picking up some younger talent. That has yet to be seen.

Two options for Poile are moving one of Weber or Suter and getting a package of good young players/prospects up front and hope they develop the way we hope they can or trade one of them for an established top 3 forward. I don't think you can trade either one and get less than that in a trade. A top 6 is not worth an elite defenseman in my eyes. The question becomes, who would be willing to trade us a top 3 for one of those two. Would Anaheim part with one of their big 3? Would NJ give up Parise? Would Vancouver trade Kesler? Would Washington trade Semin or Backstrom? It's hard to say really.

I had suggested moving Rinne and picking Vokoun back up but the return probably wouldn't have been enough for Rinne and after the comments you and V82 both made, you're probably right on the money.

So the big question is, can we keep all 3 here long term and add pieces to the puzzle or do we try to trade one of them and add a piece up front that we sorely lack?

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07-11-2011, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Are Thomas and Luongo two outstanding goalies? Thomas was on his way out of Boston after last years performance and then had an all world season this year. While 2 of the last 3 years he's been great, his middle performance was terrible. I love Thomas and think he's a great goalie but with any goalie, you can be up and down. Luongo is the most overrated goalie in the league IMO. Other than having an all world team in front of him during the Olympics, what has he won? He hasn't won a Cup. This season he had a great team playing in front of him. I know he puts up great stats for you in our league but how often does the guy steal you wins? The guy is a head case, always has been always will be.

The big question of who's more valuable to our team of the big three I think was answered this past year. Rinne goes down early, we win with Lindback in net. Suter goes down and we have Rinne back and we don't play very well, especially Weber who had to be paired with Bouillon. Is that on Shea or the coaching staff for not having the right defense partner out there. At the time, we didn't really have any options to fill Suter's shoes. A lot of people say it's hard to come across a guy like Weber and his skill set. Well, isn't it hard to find a guy with Suter's skill set too? A guy who play one on one with anyone in the league and shut them down without having to use brute force? Is it easy to find a guy who can handle the puck as well as he does?

At this point, it's between Suter and Weber to me. If we look at our system and certain guys develop, especially Josi, Suter is more expendable but if Josi and Ellis don't develop, I think it's hard trying to find replacements for either Suter or Weber. Then again, we'd just have a different look to our defense corp.

I think the days of finding and keeping a franchise goalie like Roy, Brodeur or the likes of those guys is waning more and more. We saw what Philly was willing to give up to get a franchise type goalie in Bryz but does that move make them a better team losing Richards and Carter and picking up some younger talent. That has yet to be seen.

Two options for Poile are moving one of Weber or Suter and getting a package of good young players/prospects up front and hope they develop the way we hope they can or trade one of them for an established top 3 forward. I don't think you can trade either one and get less than that in a trade. A top 6 is not worth an elite defenseman in my eyes. The question becomes, who would be willing to trade us a top 3 for one of those two. Would Anaheim part with one of their big 3? Would NJ give up Parise? Would Vancouver trade Kesler? Would Washington trade Semin or Backstrom? It's hard to say really.

I had suggested moving Rinne and picking Vokoun back up but the return probably wouldn't have been enough for Rinne and after the comments you and V82 both made, you're probably right on the money.

So the big question is, can we keep all 3 here long term and add pieces to the puzzle or do we try to trade one of them and add a piece up front that we sorely lack?
Every year in sports the big question goes back and forth is it offense or defense. Well Philly and the Cap does as every team does do the copycat thing. Chicago won with a rookie goalie so the Flyers and the Caps tried to do it as well and they failed. Now that the Elite goalies won this year the Flyers and the Caps went with top notch goalies. Wash and Phil are just an example of how the league reacts. But Elite goalies don't grow on trees. Rinne went from top 10-15 goalies in the league to top 5 if not the top one right now considering he is younger than the other Vezina nominees.

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