HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Looking Ahead: Our 2012 UFA/RFA's

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-11-2011, 10:28 AM
  #51
azrok22
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,448
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
And yet, besides Stepan - who has an incredible hockey mind, all of these players took a few years to develop playing in professional leagues like the AHL or SEL. Thats the natural progression. I have to understand you see this.

Thats why I cant understand your make such definitive statements about guys like Kreider and Miller who obviously need a lot more time to develop. You just said that theres "no way" Kreider plays in Hartford. Would you like to make a bet? Or will you just backtrack and spin your incorrect declarations like you tried to do when Kreider went back to college.

Miller stepping into the NHL next season is even more ridiculous.
He's made the same declarations about Hagelin too. Optimism is one thing, but expecting every single prospect to step right into the NHL is something else entirely.

azrok22 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2011, 10:34 AM
  #52
eco's bones
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Elmira NY
Country: United States
Posts: 12,563
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
And yet:

Dubinsky
Callahan
Stepan
Staal
Girardi
Sauer
McDonagh
Erixon
Anisimov
Lundqvist

5 of six (at least) defense positions are homegrown.

And every year more homegrown forwards are being plugged in.
And all excellent young players but what worries some folks is there's no Crosby's, Malkin's, Ovechkin's, Stamkos's or Kane's to be found in the lot. To satisfy them we'll either have to rip off some bottom feeders or tank to get the lottery picks to have any chance of getting the elite talent that they're pining for.

The Bruins just won the cup without a single elite forward in their lineup. They have some very good ones--Bergeron, Krejci, Lucic, Horton and a Seguin who may one day be an elite forward. They more or less got there with good goaltending, a solid defense, good depth throughout their lines including 3rd and 4th line physical players a little short in the talent dept. and hard work. They also stick up for each other. In some respects the Rangers present day model isn't very different from the Bruins only we might be younger and more talented and with a better future prospect pool--which isn't to say we're going to win the cup but I expect this team to become a legit contender in the near future.

eco's bones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2011, 10:37 AM
  #53
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,915
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
And all excellent young players but what worries some folks is there's no Crosby's, Malkin's, Ovechkin's, Stamkos's or Kane's to be found in the lot. To satisfy them we'll either have to rip off some bottom feeders or tank to get the lottery picks to have any chance of getting the elite talent that they're pining for.

The Bruins just won the cup without a single elite forward in their lineup. They have some very good ones--Bergeron, Krejci, Lucic, Horton and a Seguin who may one day be an elite forward. They more or less got there with good goaltending, a solid defense, good depth throughout their lines including 3rd and 4th line physical players a little short in the talent dept. and hard work. They also stick up for each other. In some respects the Rangers present day model isn't very different from the Bruins only we might be younger and more talented and with a better future prospect pool--which isn't to say we're going to win the cup but I expect this team to become a legit contender in the near future.
Theres this too. Noone denies the Rangers have done a much better job stocking the system with a high quantity of players that can possibly contribute at the NHL level.

The problem is that you eventually run out of roster spots for redundant 2nd-4th liners.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2011, 10:46 AM
  #54
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,193
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
And yet, besides Stepan - who has an incredible hockey mind, all of these players took a few years to develop playing in professional leagues like the AHL or SEL. Thats the natural progression. I have to understand you see this.

Thats why I cant understand your make such definitive statements about guys like Kreider and Miller who obviously need a lot more time to develop. You just said that theres "no way" Kreider plays in Hartford. Would you like to make a bet? Or will you just backtrack and spin your incorrect declarations like you tried to do when Kreider went back to college.

Miller stepping into the NHL next season is even more ridiculous.
Nah, it isn't the natural progression. Sorry. It isn't. It is for some players its iant for others.

Anisimov spent time in the AHL because he a) was under developed both physically and as a hockey player b) never once played a game in NA and had to adjust to a new continent.

I never back tracked on Kreider. Never. Just because I didn't insult the kid to no end like other idiots doesn't mean I back tracked. I questioned and supported his decision. And looked for official confirmation in the decision. Which you claimed wouldn't come, yet it did.

You THINK you know what your talking about. You don't.

Saying a first round pick, with an accelerated development plan could crack the NHL lineup in a year or two is off base...mm hmm.

Defense being the toughest position in hockey to learn, you'd know that though since you know so much, is a he'll of a lot different then developing forwards.

And comparing different situations is also just as idiotic.

Dubinaky and Callahan had to crack a veteran lineup with Jagr, Straka, Nylander, Shanahan, Cullen.

NOW they have accelerated development paths for some of these players. This isn't a veteran club that doesn't have a cupboard full of cheap young talent it can plug in to fill holes like it lacked in 2005-2006.

Miller is going to get consideration.

Kreider will be there.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2011, 10:52 AM
  #55
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,193
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Theres this too. Noone denies the Rangers have done a much better job stocking the system with a high quantity of players that can possibly contribute at the NHL level.

The problem is that you eventually run out of roster spots for redundant 2nd-4th liners.
Ignoring the fact we have Richards and Gaborik locked up. Why is developing 2nd line quality players a concern?

SupersonicMonkey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2011, 10:55 AM
  #56
SERE 24
LGR
 
SERE 24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 9,785
vCash: 500
I'm not trying to join the argument, but I can't help myself.

Kreider is a big question mark still for us. The only thing we know for sure is that he has elite potential. He could be a friggin stud. I'm pretty confident he will be here next year, but we'll have to wait and see. I would definitely not be penciling him in as more than a ?? for 2012-13 rosters at this point. In my opinion, while I'm optimistic for Kreider, there's a greater likelihood of seeing Thomas as things stand right now.

JT Miller... DOUBT he'll take a spot next year. Wouldn't even consider including him in potential lineups at this point. Considering he went the college route as well, it's very unlikely he leaves after his freshman year.

And a note on your list of "homegrown players" currently on the roster:

1. Erixon hasn't made the team yet so he can't be counted.
2. Both McDonagh and Erixon never played in our farm system before joining our team (if Erixon makes it this year). McD was already playing in college and we had almost zero hand in his development. Erixon was just acquired a few weeks ago. They are not "homegrown" players.

SERE 24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2011, 11:08 AM
  #57
MSG the place to be*
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,783
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prustqvist24 View Post
I'm not trying to join the argument, but I can't help myself.

Kreider is a big question mark still for us. The only thing we know for sure is that he has elite potential. He could be a friggin stud. I'm pretty confident he will be here next year, but we'll have to wait and see. I would definitely not be penciling him in as more than a ?? for 2012-13 rosters at this point. In my opinion, while I'm optimistic for Kreider, there's a greater likelihood of seeing Thomas as things stand right now.

JT Miller... DOUBT he'll take a spot next year. Wouldn't even consider including him in potential lineups at this point. Considering he went the college route as well, it's very unlikely he leaves after his freshman year.

And a note on your list of "homegrown players" currently on the roster:

1. Erixon hasn't made the team yet so he can't be counted.
2. Both McDonagh and Erixon never played in our farm system before joining our team (if Erixon makes it this year). McD was already playing in college and we had almost zero hand in his development. Erixon was just acquired a few weeks ago. They are not "homegrown" players.
McD went to prospects camp, traverse city, big camp, preseason games, then spent half a year in Hartford.

screw montreal

MSG the place to be* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2011, 11:13 AM
  #58
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,507
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
And yet, besides Stepan - who has an incredible hockey mind, all of these players took a few years to develop playing in professional leagues like the AHL or SEL. Thats the natural progression. I have to understand you see this.

Thats why I cant understand your make such definitive statements about guys like Kreider and Miller who obviously need a lot more time to develop. You just said that theres "no way" Kreider plays in Hartford. Would you like to make a bet? Or will you just backtrack and spin your incorrect declarations like you tried to do when Kreider went back to college.

Miller stepping into the NHL next season is even more ridiculous.
I will make a bet that Kreider starts in the NHL next season and bypasses Hartford.

NYR Viper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2011, 11:13 AM
  #59
OldStanley
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 103
vCash: 500
Most of these guys will be traded away to get Richards and or Gaborik "going" anyway.

OldStanley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2011, 11:23 AM
  #60
Hellion
Stone Age Hockey
 
Hellion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Stavanger, Norway
Country: Norway
Posts: 5,098
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Nah, it isn't the natural progression. Sorry. It isn't. It is for some players its iant for others.

Anisimov spent time in the AHL because he a) was under developed both physically and as a hockey player b) never once played a game in NA and had to adjust to a new continent.

I never back tracked on Kreider. Never. Just because I didn't insult the kid to no end like other idiots doesn't mean I back tracked. I questioned and supported his decision. And looked for official confirmation in the decision. Which you claimed wouldn't come, yet it did.

You THINK you know what your talking about. You don't.

Saying a first round pick, with an accelerated development plan could crack the NHL lineup in a year or two is off base...mm hmm.

Defense being the toughest position in hockey to learn, you'd know that though since you know so much, is a he'll of a lot different then developing forwards.

And comparing different situations is also just as idiotic.

Dubinaky and Callahan had to crack a veteran lineup with Jagr, Straka, Nylander, Shanahan, Cullen.

NOW they have accelerated development paths for some of these players. This isn't a veteran club that doesn't have a cupboard full of cheap young talent it can plug in to fill holes like it lacked in 2005-2006.

Miller is going to get consideration.

Kreider will be there.
Calling people Idiots, sour and saying they have no idea what they are talking about when they express their opinion is not arrogant? But I am for suggesting being a little diplomatic when postin? Hehe, I think you should try looking up arrogant in the dictionary sir.

PS: I would post this as a reply to the post where you called me arrogant, but it seems to have disapeared from the forum

Hellion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2011, 11:29 AM
  #61
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,915
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
You THINK you know what your talking about. You don't.

.
Been a member of this board for about 5 years, and quite possibly have not seen a more ironic statement.

Generally, I dont take a stand on prospects. If they make it as far as playing preseason games, I watch them and form an opinion then. I find that viewpoint refreshing because, if any of us really knew what we were talking about in terms of prospects, we wouldnt be posting here.

Its one thing to be excited about prospects, but your definitive demeanor when talking about them really irks me. And whenever you are challenged about it, you resort back to the same tired talking points. Its so predictable.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2011, 12:02 PM
  #62
Son of Steinbrenner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Tromelin
Posts: 9,487
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Several times.

And im not the only one suggesting he could compete for that spot as early as the 12-13 season. Sioux fans suggest it as well. He isn't expected to stay in College long at all. He isn't worried about his degree. He's focused on being an NHL player. He's focused on expediting his development. He was willing to discuss Plymouth and the CHL if he got a guaranteed ELC off the bat. He chose UND, which is better because he will play against older more mature players in a great league in a great hockey program that develops good Pro hockey players.
I don't doubt if Miller signs he will COMPETE for a spot but I think it's way to early to pencil him on the 2nd line ahead of Callahan and Zuccerello. I understand why he choose UND and I think it should help his development.

Quote:
Miller doesn't need to develop in certain areas as much as Zuccarello and Thomas.
I didn't bring Thomas into this debate but I do think he is ahead of Miller RIGHT NOW and probably even during next years training camp. Would I bet on it? No, but that extra year of development is a big year when these players are this young. Thomas will have 2 training camps under his belt before next year, and 3 rookie camps. Zuccerello lead the SEL in points already, it's hard to compare Zuccerello and Miller because of the age diffrencence. Curious you didn't bring Callahan into the equation considering that is who Miller will have to beat for a 2nd line spot. It's hard for me to believe Miller can do that during his first camp. It's unlikely.....I think we can both agree on that. I mean, really to say Miller makes the team next year is a long shot. Although I think this prediction is more or less one of those "say it and if it works out you look like a genius, if you it doesn't you don't bring it up." Kinda like Ethan Werek was supposed to make the team last year. Remember that one?

Quote:
Miller is already a big strong kid, he is also a very intelligent player that's already a developed two way player. All of which Thomas and Zuccarello are not (Zuccarello is intelligent but awful defensively).
As somebody that admits Zuccerello is a smart player don't you think by the time Miller is in camp next season, Zuccerello will have improved defensively? I'm not getting a Thomas Vs Miller debate. It's stupid to bring Thomas into this when he will most likely be in Hartford to start the season next year. I don't know if you have been paying attention but the Rangers usually have the kids start in Hartford..right? So lets keep the debate with players that Miller will be competing for a spot with, not other long shots. We also don't know if the Rangers will sign or trade for another winger before Millers first camp. It's impossible for either of us to know...right? That's why speaking in absolutes is dangerous when it comes to prospects, a month after their draft, who isn't signed to a contract, that isn't going to Junior, that hasn't been to an NHL training camp yet. Do you want me to keep listing reasons?

Quote:
And if you guys saw him play and knew how much skill he has, this wouldn't be a debate.

Miller>Thomas and Zuccarello.
I disagree, I don't like when people lump me into "you guys." debate me or don't but don't but don't bring other peoples debates into our conversation. Really, I don't think Miller has more skill then Zuccerello. I'm not sure about Thomas but these things work themselves out as the players get older. Right now I'd say you are wrong but that could change as Miller and Thomas get older.


Quote:
Thomas racking up points in the OHL is nice but he hasn't ever had to play in international tournaments, never had to play against players from a higher level.
Ok....I don't care...really....I didn't mention Thomas. I disagree but as I said above these things change so fast with young players.

Quote:
Miller already has experience against D1 NCAA teams. Games in which he excelled. He was also a dominant player in international tournaments such as the U-18 WJC against the best players in the world in his age bracket. And I mean dominant as in one of the best players in the entire tournament.
So Miller deserved being selected in the 1st round. You prove that with the above statement but that has no bearing on Miller being penciled in as the 2nd line RW, as a 19 year old, on a team that has a first line RW, a second line RW, a 3rd line RW, and countless other prospects for Miller to compete with...

Quote:
Kreider is graduating BC next summer, and he's going pro. There is zero chance he plays in Hartford. None. Detractors like Bleed Ranger Blue can troll behind their keyboard all they want, doesn't change the fact the organization is higher on Kreider then they have been on any prospect since the 90's. He's not going to have to pay in Hartford. And his skills aren't going to rot away on the third line getting 10 minutes per game. Simply not happening.
We dont' know what Kreider is doing after this season. Zero chance he will play in Hartford? So if Kreider doesn't have a good camp he makes the team? Don't insult other posters when you are speaking with me. Keep your catfights between yourself and other posters. You don't know how high the Rangers are on Kreider, none of us do. For all we know the Rangers are frustrated with Kreider not playing Junior, not signing after his Freshman year, and not signing after last year. You don't know what the Ranges plans are for Kreider. Honestly, does Torts seem like the type of coach that will give a player minutes he hasn't earned? This whole argument above is nonsense....I mean I'm sure you thought it out and I apperciate the response but I can poke holes through it all day. Kreider has to earn his spot like every other prospect. Also, Kreider might play his Senior season and become a free agent. It's not out of the question. You can claim to know but none of us do. Are you an insider? Do you claim to be?

Quote:
I was wrong about him going pro this year, that's fine. I wont be wrong this time next summer.
you never know...

Quote:
Some of you want to gang up on me, go ahead. Wont change things.
Yes, we all woke up this morning and called each other to gang up on you. Get a grip. Really, who do you think you are? Do you think your opinion is that important that people "gang up" on you? Step away from the computer and go outside if you can't handle people disagreeing with you.

Son of Steinbrenner is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:00 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.