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Old
07-11-2011, 02:10 PM
  #1
Mats Zuccarelli
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Defensive Pairings

Assuming we don't sign/trade for another defenseman, what do you think our pairings should be? We still only have two right-handed defensemen on our roster (Girardi and Sauer)

I was thinking something along the lines of:

Staal-Girardi
Erixon-Sauer
McDonagh-Valentenko


Kundratek and Del Zotto as the #7 and #8 defensemen



Or maybe we should split up the Staal and Girardi pairing to solidify each pairing?

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07-11-2011, 02:14 PM
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wolfgaze
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Keep McD & Sauer together. They have chemistry and were effective last year.... I envision that Valentenko will make the team and be paired with one of MDZ/Erixon (whichever is better in camp). One of these 3 guys (all lefties) will have to play on the right side, but I don't envision it being a big deal.

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07-11-2011, 02:17 PM
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Stugots
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If we didn't sign anyone else, I would expect the pairings to be:

Staal-Girardi
Erixon-Sauer
McD- Valentenko/DZ

I know Sauer and McD were good together last year, but if we don't sign a veteran then putting 2 rookies together on the bottom pairing is a bit of a concern for me.

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07-11-2011, 02:21 PM
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Brian Boyle
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With no additions:

McDonagh - Staal
Erixon - Girardi
Del Zotto - Sauer

only because Staal is the most experienced at playing the right side.

but there needs to be another addition or two.

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Old
07-11-2011, 02:39 PM
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Ani simov mal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnCenafearsTheRock View Post


Or maybe we should split up the Staal and Girardi pairing to solidify each pairing?
Girardi is terrible without Staal.

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07-11-2011, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
With no additions:

McDonagh - Staal
Erixon - Girardi
Del Zotto - Sauer

only because Staal is the most experienced at playing the right side.

but there needs to be another addition or two.
When did Staal play the right side?

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07-11-2011, 03:13 PM
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People need to stop breaking up Staal/Girardi and McSauer; these are potentially two of the best shutdown d-pairings we've had in the LONGEST time...the third pairing will work itself out in camp...

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07-11-2011, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
With no additions:

McDonagh - Staal
Erixon - Girardi
Del Zotto - Sauer

only because Staal is the most experienced at playing the right side.

but there needs to be another addition or two.
Staal has played his entire pro career on the left side. Why break up the Staal-Girardi combo when they've proven capable of logging tons of minutes against the top lines in the league?

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Old
07-11-2011, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by we want cup View Post
Staal has played his entire pro career on the left side. Why break up the Staal-Girardi combo when they've proven capable of logging tons of minutes against the top lines in the league?
Because that allows peoples fantasies of having two rookies make the team out of camp come true.

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07-11-2011, 03:34 PM
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I've said it before and I still think it makes the most sense:

Staal Girardi
McDonagh Erixon
Del Zotto Sauer

Torts isn't going to break up a top pair who he trusted to play 30 minutes a game in the playoffs.

The team, based on past comments, views McD and Erixon as top-4 guys with first pair potential. That, combined with Erixon's history of playing either side, makes this the most ideal 2nd pair.

Del Zotto needs a defensive rock next to him to get his game back. Sauer provides that. DZ and Sauer will get their minutes on special teams (PP for DZ and PK for Sauer), but they just make sense as the 3rd pair.

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07-11-2011, 03:48 PM
  #11
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Originally Posted by we want cup View Post
Staal has played his entire pro career on the left side. Why break up the Staal-Girardi combo when they've proven capable of logging tons of minutes against the top lines in the league?
When a right d-man goes down with an injury Staal is normally the guy who plays both sides. He played a lot of right side in Sudbury.

I don't think Staal should play the right side, though. the team desperately needs a veteran right d-man. it would be stupid to go into the season with 4 defensemen with a year or less of experience, and one of them playing the wrong side.

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07-11-2011, 03:53 PM
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Would love to see V-tank make the team, even as a rotating D man... i think he has a lot of potential as high risk/reward... sure there are defensive lapses, but he also goes for the big hit, big slapper...
Does anyone know if he has a legit shot at making the team? or is Kund that much ahead of him (sorry, dont know much about the "K")

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07-11-2011, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
When a right d-man goes down with an injury Staal is normally the guy who plays both sides. He played a lot of right side in Sudbury.

I don't think Staal should play the right side, though. the team desperately needs a veteran right d-man. it would be stupid to go into the season with 4 defensemen with a year or less of experience, and one of them playing the wrong side.
I don't think it will be much of an issue on the 3rd pairing. They'll see limited minutes, and when you look at some of the defensemen we have fielded in that 3rd pairing role, I don't think we should be overly concerned.


Last edited by wolfgaze: 07-11-2011 at 04:22 PM.
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Old
07-11-2011, 04:19 PM
  #14
Brian Boyle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
I don't think it will be much of an issue on the 3rd pairing. They'll see limited minutes, and when you look at some of the defensemen we have fielded in that 3rd pairing role, I don't think we should be overly concerned.
All the more reason it shouldn't be 2 rookies on the bottom pair

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07-11-2011, 04:19 PM
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iamitter
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I see it as being

Staal-Girardi
Private Donut-Erixon
Del Zotto-Sauer
Eminger

I think they'll trade Valentenko away for something like a 6th. Can't see him beating anyone in the top 6 now and I don't think they'll want a rookie as a spare. Sather will sign a vet.

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Old
07-11-2011, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoneil View Post
I've said it before and I still think it makes the most sense:

Staal Girardi
McDonagh Erixon
Del Zotto Sauer

Torts isn't going to break up a top pair who he trusted to play 30 minutes a game in the playoffs.

The team, based on past comments, views McD and Erixon as top-4 guys with first pair potential. That, combined with Erixon's history of playing either side, makes this the most ideal 2nd pair.

Del Zotto needs a defensive rock next to him to get his game back. Sauer provides that. DZ and Sauer will get their minutes on special teams (PP for DZ and PK for Sauer), but they just make sense as the 3rd pair.
Plug in Valentenko or Eminger as the #7 defenseman, and this is exactly what I think we see.

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Old
07-11-2011, 04:21 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoneil View Post
I've said it before and I still think it makes the most sense:

Staal Girardi
McDonagh Erixon
Del Zotto Sauer

Torts isn't going to break up a top pair who he trusted to play 30 minutes a game in the playoffs.

The team, based on past comments, views McD and Erixon as top-4 guys with first pair potential. That, combined with Erixon's history of playing either side, makes this the most ideal 2nd pair.

Del Zotto needs a defensive rock next to him to get his game back. Sauer provides that. DZ and Sauer will get their minutes on special teams (PP for DZ and PK for Sauer), but they just make sense as the 3rd pair.
This is how it should be.

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07-11-2011, 05:00 PM
  #18
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Staal - Girardi
McDonagh - Sauer

Have very good chemistry together. Chemistry between defense partners is an important and profound thing. They need to have a read on eachother and know eachothers tendencies.

The third pair, who ever develops that chemistry with Erixon in camp, hopefully gets the 6th spot. Hoping its Del Zotto because of his offensive skills, which could really help our Power Play. And Erixon is very good defensively, that could help give Del Zotto the confidence he needs to jump into the play or rush the puck and get more involved offensively like he's capable of.

Hoping Eminger gets re-signed as the 7th.

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Old
07-11-2011, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
All the more reason it shouldn't be 2 rookies on the bottom pair
Why? 2 rookies comprised our 2nd pairing last year and did a damn good job to boot. Valentenko has 150+ games of Pro experience... MDZ has 120+ NHL games under his belt. Erixon has 130+ games experience in the SEL.... These are not guys coming straight out of Juniors/NCAA with zero Pro experience under their belt... They'll be fine.

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07-11-2011, 05:25 PM
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Brian Boyle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Why? 2 rookies comprised our 2nd pairing last year and did a damn good job to boot. Valentenko has 150+ games of Pro experience... MDZ has 120+ NHL games under his belt. Erixon has 130+ games experience in the SEL.... These are not guys coming straight out of Juniors/NCAA with zero Pro experience under their belt... They'll be fine.
Well in the post your responding to, I was saying that there shouldn't be two rookies on the bottom pair because you were saying how little they would play.

But overall, 2nd year players have a tendency to regress, Erixon is a rookie, and Del Zotto is a trainwreck. All of those players could use another experienced dman back there that they can lean on.

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07-11-2011, 05:31 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Why? 2 rookies comprised our 2nd pairing last year and did a damn good job to boot. Valentenko has 150+ games of Pro experience... MDZ has 120+ NHL games under his belt. Erixon has 130+ games experience in the SEL.... These are not guys coming straight out of Juniors/NCAA with zero Pro experience under their belt... They'll be fine.
Agree. Its likely it could be two rookies.

Sather doesn't seem like he's worried about that. Currently focused on our RFA's.

That could change, but he might want to keep the extra cap space handy for when the trade deadline cones around, he would be able to add a piece or two for a hopeful deep playoff run.

There aren't many veteran UFA's available that would be tremendous upgrades to our current options.

Unless we make a trade. Which is also possible.

In any case, two rookies, or at least one, on the third pair won't hurt us. Not when they're quality players like Erixon.

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07-11-2011, 05:33 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Well in the post your responding to, I was saying that there shouldn't be two rookies on the bottom pair because you were saying how little they would play.
13-15 minutes a night would be fine for their development. There's always special teams too.

Quote:
But overall, 2nd year players have a tendency to regress, Erixon is a rookie, and Del Zotto is a trainwreck. All of those players could use another experienced dman back there that they can lean on.
Don't agree that MDZ is a trainwreck..... However, consider some of the 'experienced' players we have utilized on our 3rd pairing since the lockout:

Strudwick
Mara
Kalinin
Backman
Ozolinsh

Looking at what we've gone with in the past, I'm perfectly fine with going with these younger players. Signing any veteran player other than Eminger would be a mistake, because we have too much defensive depth to only allow for 1 opening for a young player.

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07-11-2011, 05:44 PM
  #23
Brian Boyle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
13-15 minutes a night would be fine for their development. There's always special teams too.



Don't agree that MDZ is a trainwreck..... However, consider some of the 'experienced' players we have utilized on our 3rd pairing since the lockout:

Strudwick
Mara
Kalinin
Backman
Ozolinsh

Looking at what we've gone with in the past, I'm perfectly fine with going with these younger players. Signing any veteran player other than Eminger would be a mistake, because we have too much defensive depth to only allow for 1 opening for a young player.
False equivalency. Because we've had bad veteran defensemen in the past, we shouldn't bring in any veteran defensemen? Please.

Let me approach this from another angle: Do you want this team to be successful? Have you ever seen a tesam with 4 dmen with under 150 games of NHL experience be succesful?

People love to ignore the effect of leadership and influence of people who have succeeded at this level before.

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07-11-2011, 05:46 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
False equivalency. Because we've had bad veteran defensemen in the past, we shouldn't bring in any veteran defensemen? Please.

Let me approach this from another angle: Do you want this team to be successful? Have you ever seen a tesam with 4 dmen with under 150 games of NHL experience be succesful?

People love to ignore the effect of leadership and influence of people who have succeeded at this level before.
I'd rather have those 4 than Bryan McCabe.

Who could we realistically sign for under 2 mil that would slot in nicely on our 3rd pair.

I have no problem going with two rooks that will play their butts off.

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07-11-2011, 05:48 PM
  #25
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Staal-Girardi
Erixon-Sauer
McDonagh-Del Zotto

I really hope that Sather can sign a veteran defenseman to help anchor that third pair, but I just don't think there are many signs pointing to that happening. I'd at least like to re-sign Eminger, who was admirable in his 3rd pairing role, and was very good when asked to play top-4 minutes. We could role with this, then:

Staal-Girardi
McDonagh-Sauer
Erixon-Eminger

Looks much better than the jumbled mess above it.

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