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Old
07-11-2011, 06:48 PM
  #26
JeffMangum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckface NYR View Post
I'd rather have those 4 than Bryan McCabe.

Who could we realistically sign for under 2 mil that would slot in nicely on our 3rd pair.

I have no problem going with two rooks that will play their butts off.
Steve Eminger.

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07-11-2011, 06:53 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckface NYR View Post
I'd rather have those 4 than Bryan McCabe.

Who could we realistically sign for under 2 mil that would slot in nicely on our 3rd pair.

I have no problem going with two rooks that will play their butts off.
Bryan McCabe is a name I would like. Brent Sopel is another.

I have no doubts that rookies would play their butts off. That's not my issue.

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07-11-2011, 06:56 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Steve Eminger.
Im hoping he's brought in either way as the 7th, at least.

Can't have a rookie in that role.

Eminger filled the 7th/6th well for last year.

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07-11-2011, 06:58 PM
  #29
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Neither of McCabe or Sopel are NHL caliber defenseman. They are both slow beyond believe, and in regards to Sopel, I believe he has indicated that he may retire because he doesn't want to keep moving around the country with his family in Chicago.

Veteran leadership is a good thing, but if it comes at the expense of actually defense, no thanks. I'd be interested in Hannan, Eminger, or Staios.

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Old
07-11-2011, 08:03 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
False equivalency. Because we've had bad veteran defensemen in the past, we shouldn't bring in any veteran defensemen? Please.
No, the point is that we've utilized these questionable defensemen just about every year since the lockout, and I think these younger players, at worst, can provide the same level of effectiveness as those players ever did.

What effective 3rd pairing defenseman are you going to land out there on a 1 year deal? And it better be a one year deal, because if you look at the Rangers organizational strength in the system, it's the depth we have among defenseman, and there's no chance in hell we're tying up all 5 roster spots and asking V-Tank, MDZ, Erixon, Kundratek to fight for 1 roster spot over the next 2 years....

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Let me approach this from another angle: Do you want this team to be successful? Have you ever seen a tesam with 4 dmen with under 150 games of NHL experience be succesful?
Guess what? Teams do not have to build their anticipated playoff rosters in July. Nothing wrong with entering the season with spots to be earned and shopping for depth pieces at the deadline if need be.

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People love to ignore the effect of leadership and influence of people who have succeeded at this level before.
Please yourself... What is some washed up 3rd pairing veteran defenseman going to provide in the form of leadership that you can't get from Richards, Callahan, or Staal? Bryan McCabe? Are you serious? McDonagh & Sauer excelled last season in the absence of any veteran defenseman providing a 'leadership' role, so let's not pretend like adding leadership in the name of a 3rd pairing defenseman is a vital necessity here.

I'll take Eminger on the grounds that he'll sign for cheap, he'll sign a short-duration contract, and the Rangers won't hesitate to utilize him as a 7th defenseman if need be. But I'm certainly not adding him because of any leadership attributes. We have plenty of character on the team as is.


Last edited by wolfgaze: 07-11-2011 at 08:10 PM.
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07-11-2011, 08:16 PM
  #31
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Torts likes to give his top 2 D pairings a ton of ice time, so I would expect to see the same pairing as last year (Staal-Girardi, McD-Sauer) until one of the young guys (Erixon, MDZ, V-Tank, etc.) shows that they can handle more minutes or one of the top 4 faulters. Torts has shown he is willing to go with an inexperienced bottom pair D, so that really isn't an issue. Of course, this goes out the window if they sign a veteran D to play with Erixon on the bottom pair.

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07-11-2011, 08:57 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
No, the point is that we've utilized these questionable defensemen just about every year since the lockout, and I think these younger players, at worst, can provide the same level of effectiveness as those players ever did.
I think these players can be effective, too. I just don't think a situation where 4 players on the blueline are experiencing growing pains at once is a good environment for them to develop.

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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Guess what? Teams do not have to build their anticipated playoff rosters in July. Nothing wrong with entering the season with spots to be earned and shopping for depth pieces at the deadline if need be.
They may not have the exact roster set out in July, but they should try to be as close as can be. Why waste the asset at the deadline when you can get it now?

I'll re-word them: Have you ever seen a team start the season with 4 defensemen with under 150 games of NHL experience go on to be successful?

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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Please yourself... What is some washed up 3rd pairing veteran defenseman going to provide in the form of leadership that you can't get from Richards, Callahan, or Staal?
Well, I'd argue that Richards and Callahan don't have a firm grasp on what it takes to be an NHL defenseman, but I'm sure you'll fight me on that.

I'm not going to give specific examples as to what the vets will do or say, but teams with veteran leadership tend to to better than those without.

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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Donagh & Sauer excelled last season in the absence of any veteran defenseman providing a 'leadership' role, so let's not pretend like adding leadership in the name of a 3rd pairing defenseman is a vital necessity here.
Well 52 of 82 of the games were played with either McCabe or Rozsival in the lineup.

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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
I'll take Eminger on the grounds that he'll sign for cheap, he'll sign a short-duration contract, and the Rangers won't hesitate to utilize him as a 7th defenseman if need be. But I'm certainly not adding him because of any leadership attributes.
Cool. You should be proud.

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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Neither of McCabe or Sopel are NHL caliber defenseman.
Tell that to the NHL teams that are going to sign them to NHL contracts.

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Old
07-11-2011, 09:13 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
I think these players can be effective, too. I just don't think a situation where 4 players on the blueline are experiencing growing pains at once is a good environment for them to develop.


They may not have the exact roster set out in July, but they should try to be as close as can be. Why waste the asset at the deadline when you can get it now?

I'll re-word them: Have you ever seen a team start the season with 4 defensemen with under 150 games of NHL experience go on to be successful?
Who is available? Let's name some names first and then discuss their pros/cons.


Quote:
Well, I'd argue that Richards and Callahan don't have a firm grasp on what it takes to be an NHL defenseman, but I'm sure you'll fight me on that.
You think guidance can only come from roster players? What about Jim Schoenfeld? He has worked extensively with our defensemen in the past... What leadership attributes are you talking about here that Staal and Girardi cannot provide? What did Paul Mara, Strudwick, or Derek Morris ever provide that they couldn't????

Quote:
I'm not going to give specific examples as to what the vets will do or say, but teams with veteran leadership tend to to better than those without.
You should be more specific.... Teams with veteran leadership in which those players can also play the game effectively.... Just adding "leaders" with no regard to their effectiveness on the ice gets you no where... Think the Caps were reeling from the loss of Chris Clark, their captain, out on the ice?

Let's get into specifics... Who did you have in mind for the Rangers?


Quote:
Well 52 of 82 of the games were played with either McCabe or Rozsival in the lineup.
Yes, Rozsival & McCabe, ideal leaders! One guy was as soft as the 3-ply toilet paper in in my bathroom, and the other came here on a short stint and proved he was washed up and could barely keep up with the game the way it's played today... I hope Sauer & McD were taking notes.


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Cool. You should be proud.
Real mature.


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Tell that to the NHL teams that are going to sign them to NHL contracts.
So what? Lots of teams make regrettable signings, it happens every summer... Simply being signed implies nothing of what will transpire on the ice for those teams. Was Kalinin supposed to be a valuable 3rd pairing addition since we signed him to a contract?


Last edited by wolfgaze: 07-11-2011 at 09:32 PM.
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Old
07-11-2011, 09:33 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Who is available? Let's name some names first and then discuss their pros/cons.
I've already named two. The pros are what I'm arguing for here, and I'm well aware of their cons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
You think guidance can only come from roster players? What about Jim Schoenfeld? He has worked extensively with our defensemen in the past...
Guidance from coaches is essential, but it's not a replacement for leadership among the players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
What leadership attributes are you talking about here that Staal and Girardi cannot provide? What did Paul Mara, Strudwick, or Derek Morris ever provide that they couldn't????
I'm not saying that Staal and Girardi don't provide leadership or that their experience doesn't matter, rather that more is necessary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Just adding "leaders" with no regard to their effectiveness on the ice gets you no where...
Likewise a compiling skill with no regard for leadership will get you nowhere as well. I'd argue that the team has plenty of skill, as reflected in the GF-GA last season. However, the W-L didn't reflect that, and I think that's because the team didn't know how to win, because a large amount of the players haven't won at the NHL level before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Yes, Rozsival & McCabe, ideal leaders! One guy was as soft as the 3-ply toilet paper in in my bathroom, and the other came here on a short stint and proved he was washed up and could barely keep up with the game the way it's played today... I hope Sauer & McD were taking notes.
They've been a part of good teams at the NHL level in the past. They know what it takes to win at the NHL level.

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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
So what?
So that makes them NHL players, doesn't it?

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Old
07-11-2011, 09:36 PM
  #35
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If it stays the way it is, I think the bottom 4 are wide open. I think Sauer is probably a lock for right D 2nd pair, but I could see Erixon, Del Zotto or McDonagh on the other side out of camp.

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Old
07-12-2011, 12:07 AM
  #36
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If it stays the way it is, I think the bottom 4 are wide open. I think Sauer is probably a lock for right D 2nd pair, but I could see Erixon, Del Zotto or McDonagh on the other side out of camp.
Why would McDonagh not make the team?

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07-12-2011, 12:16 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Staal-Girardi
Erixon-Sauer
McDonagh-Del Zotto

I really hope that Sather can sign a veteran defenseman to help anchor that third pair, but I just don't think there are many signs pointing to that happening. I'd at least like to re-sign Eminger, who was admirable in his 3rd pairing role, and was very good when asked to play top-4 minutes. We could role with this, then:

Staal-Girardi
McDonagh-Sauer
Erixon-Eminger

Looks much better than the jumbled mess above it.
Sean O'Donnell would have been the perfect 7th dman for us in my opinion

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07-12-2011, 12:17 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by rangersfan30 View Post
Sean O'Donnell would have been the perfect 7th dman for us in my opinion
I was actually hoping Sather would inquire myself. For 800k, he's a great insurance policy.

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Old
07-12-2011, 12:21 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by JohnCenafearsTheRock View Post
Why would McDonagh not make the team?
I think he was suggesting that he may switch over to the right side. But he should have to earn his spot in camp.

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07-12-2011, 12:40 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Steve Eminger.
I completely agree. But i was referring to full-time play. I would prefer to have Erixon, MDZ or V-tank in the lineup to begin the season than have Eminger there.

Eminger as our 7th is ideal.


And McCabe is absolute garbage. He was getting left in the dust constantly. I don't want him back on this team unless he took the min and was willing to be the 7th.

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07-12-2011, 01:39 AM
  #41
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Is it not abundantly clear that we're going to have to acquire a right defenseman before having this conversation? Erixon, McD and MDZ cannot and will not switch to their offside as so many are penciling them in to do.

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07-12-2011, 05:36 AM
  #42
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According to Finnish MTV3(the largest tv station in Finland) NY Rangers are negotiating with Sami Lepistö:

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Sami Lepistö might enjoy next season in Manhattan's bright lights.

Defenseman Sami Lepistö is currently without a club. According to a source, the Helsinki native is negotiating a contract with the New York Rangers.

- More than one club has shown interest. I do not want to mention any team names, things are still open. I do not yet know where I will play next season, Lepistö commented to MTV3.
http://translate.google.com/translat...-kultaleijonan


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Old
07-12-2011, 06:03 AM
  #43
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I'd be OK with Lepisto...he isn't exactly the strapping veteran, but he's a smooth skating puck mover. Could look good paired with Erixon.

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07-12-2011, 07:10 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timanGi View Post
According to Finnish MTV3(the largest tv station in Finland) NY Rangers are negotiating with Sami Lepistö:



http://translate.google.com/translat...-kultaleijonan
ANOTHER lefty D?????

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Old
07-12-2011, 07:29 AM
  #45
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People need to stop breaking up Staal/Girardi and McSauer; these are potentially two of the best shutdown d-pairings we've had in the LONGEST time...the third pairing will work itself out in camp...
This.

The 3rd pairing will most likely be MDZ - Erixon. If MDZ stinks it up like last year, a cheap vet will take the spot. But that last pairing is MDZ's and Erixon's to lose.

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Old
07-12-2011, 11:57 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnCenafearsTheRock View Post
Why would McDonagh not make the team?
Because he's only played 40 games, and a bad camp combined with Del Zotto and Erixon having a good camp could mean he's starting in Hartford. Do you guys not know John Tortarella? Nothing is guaranteed for a rookie who has half a season under their belt.

Is it likely McDonagh will make it? Sure. But as far as I'm concerned the bottom 3 spots are wide open.

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07-12-2011, 12:00 PM
  #47
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Is it not abundantly clear that we're going to have to acquire a right defenseman before having this conversation? Erixon, McD and MDZ cannot and will not switch to their offside as so many are penciling them in to do.
How can you make that assumption? Look at all the defensemen in the league who play on the opposite side as their handedness... What is so unique about those 3 mentioned players that you're so confident that neither of them could play the opposite side??

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Old
07-12-2011, 12:04 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
Because he's only played 40 games, and a bad camp combined with Del Zotto and Erixon having a good camp could mean he's starting in Hartford. Do you guys not know John Tortarella? Nothing is guaranteed for a rookie who has half a season under their belt.

Is it likely McDonagh will make it? Sure. But as far as I'm concerned the bottom 3 spots are wide open.
Doubtful. Top 4 are set...and I'd go so far as to say Erixon is also penciled in as #5. MDZ/Valentenko and perhaps Lepisto (if he's signed) will fight it out for 6/7.

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07-12-2011, 01:52 PM
  #49
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Doubtful. Top 4 are set...and I'd go so far as to say Erixon is also penciled in as #5. MDZ/Valentenko and perhaps Lepisto (if he's signed) will fight it out for 6/7.
Agreed.

Quick Q: Do the Rangers typically carry 7 D on the bench, or is that 7th guy usually in the press box? Just wondering b/c I'd love to see Erixon, DZ and V-Tank round out the last 5-7, but if one of them would be upstairs just observing, that wouldn't be beneficial for anyone (then I'd prob give Eminenger the spot...)

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07-12-2011, 02:08 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
Doubtful. Top 4 are set...and I'd go so far as to say Erixon is also penciled in as #5. MDZ/Valentenko and perhaps Lepisto (if he's signed) will fight it out for 6/7.
The defense is awfully green, but all signs point to this being the plan.

Staal-Girardi
McDonagh-Sauer
Erixon - MDZ/Valentenko/Eminger/Camp invite

Makes zero sense to have a younger player around as the #7, but some sort of insurance policy in the form of a vet needs to be around in case some of these kids cant cut it.

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