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Phillies' Baseball (MLB): Contreras to Popular Belief

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07-12-2011, 01:52 AM
  #976
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Lets say in a few years Dom Brown has blown up into the top of his ceiling... and Ryan Howard is a poor fielding 1B (he's already that) struggling to keep his average above .250 and his OPS has slid to the low .800s...

Still want Howard over Dom Brown?
is howard still hitting 40 homeruns with 140 rbis?

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07-12-2011, 01:53 AM
  #977
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Being proactive no? Anytime you have a player like Howard you get bidding wars in Open Markets... In fact any player on the Open Market is open to an increased contract. Do you honestly expect me to believe that you don't see Howard being out there would increase his contract... And you are talking as if the Phillies are that bad managed team of the past and not a well built team that has success season after season and is in great shape this season; would you have us believe they are inept and merely lucky?
I never said anything about the Phillies being inept or lucky. Do not claim that I said things that I did not say.

Here's the bottom line: the Phillies bid against themselves and paid for it. You can try to spin it any which way you like, but there isn't a single team in baseball that would have given him 125/5, or anything close to it.

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We are in a discussion and I can voice my opinions as I see fit... We were talking about what you deem a bad contract and I stated my belief that all modern day MLB contracts for stars are ridiculously high; it is my opinion... You don't want to debate that yet you ask me to comment on if Howard's is the worse. Please make up your mind
It's amazing that you don't understand this. If you think all MLB contracts are bad, Ryan Howard's contract is still one of the worst. You're just sliding the scale.

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I do so by saying that your blanket statement where is applies is often due to those who like me feel that being the second most high it is attune to the ridiculous trend... And often it is said by negative bloggers... Many pundits understood what Amaro did... and many pundits spewed sour grapes.
Absolutely no idea what you're talking about in the first few lines here.

Sour grapes? You think fans/writers of other teams are jealous of the contract that the Phillies gave Howard? Are you nuts?

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Of course errors are not the total gauge... for outfielders it is often a case of not getting to the ball; ergo no error.

Howard has worked at his fielding and is adequate in the position and handles throws at times very well... He loses the Phillies few games with his fielding and keeps them in many due to being fairly solid. He may still have a bad rapt from those who have not seen him grow there and from those who hold him up to the elite first basemen.
He's not a good first baseman. Literally every single defensive statistic has him as below average, and the fan scouting report agrees with that as well. You are wrong.

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As I said before HR hitters put fannies in the seats... and often a trade can be made where people believe it can't. There are ways o move a contract and in MLB you can eat salary where you can't in other sports... I was just commenting on the fact that Amaro did no paint himself into a corner.
Put up or shut up. What team would take on that contract?

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Again I stated that only because you refused to admit that there was talk of Howard signing with another team on the Open Market and how there was little belief that the Phillies would be able to out bid the bigger spenders... I was being sarcastic because IMO you had to have known that had you followed them a couple years back... I still believe you know that was the case.
Except that there really wasn't. Yes, the possibility was discussed that he could leave, but it was never serious talk. He never even made it to his contract year. Find me one article that put the chances of Howard leaving at greater than 50%.

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And not once did I question you intelligence, nor insult you credibility for your opinion as I was insulted here tonight... Only now have you guys stared discussing rather than merely saying "did not happen"
Yes you did. You insinuated that I was a new fan. Well, I have news for you, almost every baseball analyst/insider agrees with what we are saying. I guess they're all new baseball fans as well?

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07-12-2011, 01:55 AM
  #978
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i think it is naive to think ryan howard wouldn't get a contract comparable on the open market..

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07-12-2011, 01:55 AM
  #979
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hextall89 View Post
No I agree with you there Jester. I had seats in left field since 2004 and I ****ing HATED how many people berated him when there was absolutely no reason to at all. It was the most frustrating **** ever, to the point where I'd yell back at people in my misguided teenage years.

I can agree about the high note, but it still sucks that he was my favorite player and left. I'll always love the "ass-out strikeout" when the pitch is high and away
Philadelphia fans, generally speaking, are some of the most ungrateful fans in sports. Burrell can join the list with guys like, Werth, McNabb, Schmidt, Carter, Richards, etc.

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07-12-2011, 01:56 AM
  #980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Well, I think the natural tendency is to want to pull the ball, so you have to work at it to keep yourself more centered. I just remember when Howard came up so many of his HRs were left/left-center and now almost none of 'em are.
That might be due to the fact that when he came up he was seeing way more fastballs and he just muscled the ones that were on the outer half of the plate over the fence. Nowadays he's lucky to see 1 hittable fastball per AB, especially if he can't lay off the soft stuff.

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07-12-2011, 02:00 AM
  #981
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Originally Posted by Phileeguy View Post
That might be due to the fact that when he came up he was seeing way more fastballs and he just muscled the ones that were on the outer half of the plate over the fence. Nowadays he's lucky to see 1 hittable fastball per AB, especially if he can't lay off the soft stuff.
Nah, he was golfing a lot of low and away stuff then that he just waives at now.

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07-12-2011, 02:11 AM
  #982
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Originally Posted by triqsix View Post
is howard still hitting 40 homeruns with 140 rbis?
Only two players hit 40 last year, they had a .995 and 1.011 OPS. So, no, he isn't hitting 40 with a low .800 OPS. More importantly, Howard is projecting to 32/128 right now (and yes I'm aware of his splits). He had 31/108 last year while missing a few games. In the era of steroid testing, don't bank on guys carrying monster numbers into their mid 30s.

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Originally Posted by triqsix View Post
i think it is naive to think ryan howard wouldn't get a contract comparable on the open market..
I think it's naive to assume that he would. Not only that, I thinkits silly to make out losing Howard to another team on that contract as some kind of tragedy. Just like how I don't feel bad about losing Werth to his deal.

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07-12-2011, 02:29 AM
  #983
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Nah, he was golfing a lot of low and away stuff then that he just waives at now.
Sure, he did golf a few, but I'd hazard guess a lot of those opposite field shots were off fastballs, especially since when he first came up opposing pitchers had less of a book on him. You'd think pitchers would try fastballs away 'til they realized he'd hit them too if they're strikes. If he was golfing a lot, pitchers wouldn't be throwing as much soft stuff low and away like they do now. Yes, both sides make adjustments, but it would be counterproductive for Howard to make an adjustment that made him not able to hit the low and away off speed stuff over the fence, especially considering that limits him to swing more often at stuff inside that increases chances of him to hit into the shift if he doesn't lift it.

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07-12-2011, 03:05 AM
  #984
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Found this online pretty sweet

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07-12-2011, 09:58 AM
  #985
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phileeguy View Post
Sure, he did golf a few, but I'd hazard guess a lot of those opposite field shots were off fastballs, especially since when he first came up opposing pitchers had less of a book on him. You'd think pitchers would try fastballs away 'til they realized he'd hit them too if they're strikes. If he was golfing a lot, pitchers wouldn't be throwing as much soft stuff low and away like they do now. Yes, both sides make adjustments, but it would be counterproductive for Howard to make an adjustment that made him not able to hit the low and away off speed stuff over the fence, especially considering that limits him to swing more often at stuff inside that increases chances of him to hit into the shift if he doesn't lift it.
I think he's made a counter productive move towards being a weaker hitter... You see spurts where he stays on the away pitch when he gets hot, but most of the time that owns him.

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07-12-2011, 10:00 AM
  #986
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It's about time for a new thread. Anybody have title ideas?

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07-12-2011, 10:03 AM
  #987
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All your pitcher are belong to us

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07-12-2011, 10:06 AM
  #988
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
It's about time for a new thread. Anybody have title ideas?
Leeding the Pack
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07-12-2011, 10:27 AM
  #989
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"Where Management is Excoriated"

or is that not specific enough?

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07-12-2011, 10:37 AM
  #990
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Ut-Lee

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07-12-2011, 11:01 AM
  #991
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"Where Management is Excoriated"

or is that not specific enough?
That covers pretty much every Philly sport

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07-12-2011, 11:41 AM
  #992
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Inglorious Bastardos

Back to work from Halladay

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07-12-2011, 11:55 AM
  #993
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Is it October yet?

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07-12-2011, 12:16 PM
  #994
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I like the Bastardos one.

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07-12-2011, 12:17 PM
  #995
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