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Old
07-10-2011, 06:12 PM
  #801
OriginJM
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I think we're done making moves, by the way. Can't really see us doing anything anymore.

edit: also found this, thought it was funny:



Last edited by OriginJM: 07-10-2011 at 06:24 PM.
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Old
07-10-2011, 09:40 PM
  #802
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Originally Posted by Girouxxxxx28 View Post
worst comes to worst Couturier would at least have the size to matchup with the Malkins and Staals
he has height, but he's still 18 and doesn't have the muscle or speed/agility yet. He probably won't be ready.

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07-10-2011, 09:41 PM
  #803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginJM View Post
I think we're done making moves, by the way. Can't really see us doing anything anymore.

edit: also found this, thought it was funny:

I saw that guy at prospect camp the other day.

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07-10-2011, 09:43 PM
  #804
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Originally Posted by OriginJM View Post
I think we're done making moves, by the way. Can't really see us doing anything anymore.

edit: also found this, thought it was funny:

thats awesome

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Old
07-11-2011, 07:01 PM
  #805
Nikita Filatov
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Originally Posted by lancer247 View Post
if there aren't more moves and they still have cap space I see Walker stsrting the season as a #6 dman. i think homer gives him a shot to atleast show other teams he is healthy. Especially if they decide to move/waive Shelley. Unless Gus just blows up in the pre-season.

carle - pronger
mez - kimo
coburn - walker

hartnell - briere - jagr (the"you need to score 2 goals for each one you give up" line)
Jvr - giroux - voracek (the "really no pressure just because we gave up carter & richards" line)
nodl - talbot - simmonds (the "gang that can't shoot straight" line)
sestito - schenn - holstrom * (the crash line)
betts

* i wouldn't mind schenn cutting his teeth on a high energy crash line. no pressure, just go out and throw his body around. i remember forsberg saying how starting on a
4th line with Simon and Deadmarsh (?) helped him play and not feel the pressure when he first got into the league. after a few months see if he can move up.
It's a shame both Jagr and Voracek dont play on the left side just because they would be considered the best hockey hair duo.

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Old
07-12-2011, 10:45 AM
  #806
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CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Jaromir Jagr ($3.300m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($2.250m)
Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m)
Andreas Nodl ($0.845m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Jody Shelley ($1.100m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m)

DEFENSEMEN
Matt Carle ($3.437m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Braydon Coburn ($3.200m)
Scott Hannan ($2.400m) / Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.737m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,900,039; BONUSES: $3,815,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $399,961

With Lappy placed on LTIR and Bartulis sent down (who cares if someone picks him off waivers?) we'd have plenty of money add either Hannan or McCabe on a +2M contract.

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Old
07-12-2011, 11:29 AM
  #807
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Originally Posted by Nikita Filatov View Post
It's a shame both Jagr and Voracek dont play on the left side just because they would be considered the best hockey hair duo.
I could very well be mistaken here... but I think I remember them playing on the same line for the Czech national team at some point. Can't remember if it looked as if they found some chemistry however.

I wouldn't mind a line of Voracek-Brière-Jagr if they could convince Voracek to try the left wing.

It could be a disaster defensively though, but almost any way I try to figure out our lines for next season there's (at least) one forward line that makes me shudder.

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Old
07-12-2011, 11:54 AM
  #808
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Originally Posted by mirimon View Post
I could very well be mistaken here... but I think I remember them playing on the same line for the Czech national team at some point. Can't remember if it looked as if they found some chemistry however.

I wouldn't mind a line of Voracek-Brière-Jagr if they could convince Voracek to try the left wing.

It could be a disaster defensively though, but almost any way I try to figure out our lines for next season there's (at least) one forward line that makes me shudder.
This is funny to me. Everyone seems convinced that this line would be bad defensively.

Jagr has never ever been a good defensive player and yet has always been one of the leaders for forwards in +/-. His offense is his defense. He plays a possession game and when he has the puck, even offensive lines (including Ovechkin lines like Ovechkin, Malkin or Crosby) are left chasing the puck.

In 2005-06 the Rangers first line was not a good defensive line yet Nylander, Straka and Jagr were all in the top 10 among forwards in +/-. Who ever plays on his line will benefit from this.

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Old
07-12-2011, 11:59 AM
  #809
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TSN did a big special on Brayden Schenn last night and how he is going to be dominant. They showed clips of him at the World Juniors last year when he broke the record for team Canada points (fans were chanting and holding up signs TSN=The Schenn Nation, etc. So, I think this kid is not a third liner:

JVR-Schenn-Giroux
Voracek-Briere-Jagr (Based on last guys post that Voracek can play left)
Hartnell-Talbot-Simmonds (Huge cycle/energy line)
Holmstrom-Betts-Rinaldo
Betts

Pronger-Carle
Timonen-Coburn
Mezsaros-Lauridson/Gustaffson/Bartulis
Lilja

Bryz
Bob

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Old
07-12-2011, 12:03 PM
  #810
CS
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
So, I think this kid is not a third liner:
Hold your horses man.

This kid is a third liner until proven otherwise. (Assuming he's already made the team.)

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Old
07-12-2011, 12:08 PM
  #811
sa cyred
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
TSN did a big special on Brayden Schenn last night and how he is going to be dominant. They showed clips of him at the World Juniors last year when he broke the record for team Canada points (fans were chanting and holding up signs TSN=The Schenn Nation, etc. So, I think this kid is not a third liner:

JVR-Schenn-Giroux
Voracek-Briere-Jagr (Based on last guys post that Voracek can play left)
Hartnell-Talbot-Simmonds (Huge cycle/energy line)
Holmstrom-Betts-Rinaldo
Betts

Pronger-Carle
Timonen-Coburn
Mezsaros-Lauridson/Gustaffson/Bartulis
Lilja

Bryz
Bob
Talbot doesnt play center that much (if at all)... plus he can't win faceoffs. Schenn is the 3rd line center till proven otherwise.

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Old
07-12-2011, 12:09 PM
  #812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
TSN did a big special on Brayden Schenn last night and how he is going to be dominant. They showed clips of him at the World Juniors last year when he broke the record for team Canada points (fans were chanting and holding up signs TSN=The Schenn Nation, etc. So, I think this kid is not a third liner:

JVR-Schenn-Giroux
Voracek-Briere-Jagr (Based on last guys post that Voracek can play left)
Hartnell-Talbot-Simmonds (Huge cycle/energy line)
Holmstrom-Betts-Rinaldo
Betts

Pronger-Carle
Timonen-Coburn
Mezsaros-Lauridson/Gustaffson/Bartulis
Lilja

Bryz
Bob
Oh come on. Schenn will be 20 when the season starts, and the Flyers have two better centers. Let him work his way up the roster like everyone else did.

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Old
07-12-2011, 12:10 PM
  #813
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
TSN did a big special on Brayden Schenn last night and how he is going to be dominant. They showed clips of him at the World Juniors last year when he broke the record for team Canada points (fans were chanting and holding up signs TSN=The Schenn Nation, etc. So, I think this kid is not a third liner:
Right now he most definitely is.

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07-12-2011, 12:12 PM
  #814
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This is funny to me. Everyone seems convinced that this line would be bad defensively.

Jagr has never ever been a good defensive player and yet has always been one of the leaders for forwards in +/-. His offense is his defense. He plays a possession game and when he has the puck, even offensive lines (including Ovechkin lines like Ovechkin, Malkin or Crosby) are left chasing the puck.

In 2005-06 the Rangers first line was not a good defensive line yet Nylander, Straka and Jagr were all in the top 10 among forwards in +/-. Who ever plays on his line will benefit from this.
Nylander was far from a spectacular center defensively, but he was at least somewhat average. Brière is terrible. Voracek could still improve his game, but I wouldn't bet on him turning into a Selke caliber winger anytime soon. Jagr is Jagr. When he wants to he can be a really good player all over the ice, but far too often in the NHL he's lost interest below the red line.

That line would have to survive simply by outclassing the line they are up against. I think they could be that on most nights, that's kind of why I proposed that line, but if they don't click or if they face a hotter line they could be eaten alive.

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Old
07-12-2011, 12:12 PM
  #815
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Originally Posted by OriginJM View Post
I think we're done making moves, by the way. Can't really see us doing anything anymore.

edit: also found this, thought it was funny:

Haha I saw the owner of that jersey at prospect camp on Saturday.

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Old
07-12-2011, 12:58 PM
  #816
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Originally Posted by mirimon View Post
Nylander was far from a spectacular center defensively, but he was at least somewhat average. Brière is terrible. Voracek could still improve his game, but I wouldn't bet on him turning into a Selke caliber winger anytime soon. Jagr is Jagr. When he wants to he can be a really good player all over the ice, but far too often in the NHL he's lost interest below the red line.

That line would have to survive simply by outclassing the line they are up against. I think they could be that on most nights, that's kind of why I proposed that line, but if they don't click or if they face a hotter line they could be eaten alive.
He wasn't. He was prone to brain farts on certain nights to the point where Renney actually used to bench him sometimes.

If anything Straka was the most responsible of the 3 on defense. Straka though used to also play Center in Pittsburgh.

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07-12-2011, 01:27 PM
  #817
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Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
He wasn't. He was prone to brain farts on certain nights to the point where Renney actually used to bench him sometimes.

If anything Straka was the most responsible of the 3 on defense. Straka though used to also play Center in Pittsburgh.
I agree that Straka was the most responsible of those three, I still maintain that Brière is far worse defensively than Nylander was though.

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07-12-2011, 01:28 PM
  #818
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I agree that Straka was the most responsible of those three, I still maintain that Brière is far worse defensively than Nylander was though.
We shall see. I think with Brière being one of the "leaders" of this team now we will see more of his form from Buffalo.

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07-12-2011, 02:07 PM
  #819
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We shall see. I think with Brière being one of the "leaders" of this team now we will see more of his form from Buffalo.
Where he was bad defensively also...

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Old
07-12-2011, 02:17 PM
  #820
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Hold your horses man.

This kid is a third liner until proven otherwise. (Assuming he's already made the team.)
You say that as if the third line is....om, better for him/Philly? I prefer to have a line that goes against the other teams Crosby/Ovechkin lines each shift. Last year, that was the Richards line. This year - Schenn? I don't like that. I say build your third line with a Talbot/Hartnell/Simmonds and let them cycle, let them hit and make life hell on the other teams best. Put Schenn on a top 2 line and let him play with great players like Carolina did with Skinner, or Tampa with Stamkos or Edmonton with Hall, etc (And yes, Schenn compares to those players. THE BEST PROSPECT WE HAVE HAD SINCE LINDROS!!!!). You put him on the third line in a grind role and prepare for comparisons to Tyler Seguin last year. Bruins put him in third/fourth line duty with unskilled players and were surprised he didn't succeed. I say put him with Giroux and lets see what hes got. If he isn't good enough, fine, send him to dominate the AHL until he is. But a third liner, that isn't who Brayden Schenn is.

Remember, this is the first top end prospect we have had in years. We gave up Mike Richards for this kid. I say, lets use him the right way.

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07-12-2011, 02:25 PM
  #821
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You say that as if the third line is....om, better for him/Philly? I prefer to have a line that goes against the other teams Crosby/Ovechkin lines each shift. Last year, that was the Richards line. This year - Schenn? I don't like that. I say build your third line with a Talbot/Hartnell/Simmonds and let them cycle, let them hit and make life hell on the other teams best. Put Schenn on a top 2 line and let him play with great players like Carolina did with Skinner, or Tampa with Stamkos or Edmonton with Hall, etc (And yes, Schenn compares to those players. THE BEST PROSPECT WE HAVE HAD SINCE LINDROS!!!!). You put him on the third line in a grind role and prepare for comparisons to Tyler Seguin last year. Bruins put him in third/fourth line duty with unskilled players and were surprised he didn't succeed. I say put him with Giroux and lets see what hes got. If he isn't good enough, fine, send him to dominate the AHL until he is. But a third liner, that isn't who Brayden Schenn is.

Remember, this is the first top end prospect we have had in years. We gave up Mike Richards for this kid. I say, lets use him the right way.
I kind of agree, but for a different reason. Everybody keeps saying that Richards went up against Crosby/Ovechkin to shut them down.

Did he even do that? Richards is a fantastic all around player, but Crosby/Ovechkin/Malkin/Stamkos (when around) shredded us. They have some of the highest PPG against the Flyers versus any other team. It's pretty obvious that Richards didn't do much 'shutting' down - ES or otherwise.

Instead of the Flyers playing a counter role to the elite stars (i.e., have a 'shutdown' guy) I think they're realizing the way to shut them down is to not let them have the puck.

They're gearing towards a more puck possession game - Simmonds, Talbot, Jagr, Voracek - and playing away from our own net.

Personally, I'm tired of everybody saying shutdown centers - you don't shut down players like Crosby by giving them the puck and trying to play good D - they're too smart for that and will adapt - and most likely score anyway. You just prevent them from getting the puck altogether. I'm not saying it'll work, but I like it. Make them play D instead of the other way around for a change.

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07-12-2011, 02:52 PM
  #822
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I kind of agree, but for a different reason. Everybody keeps saying that Richards went up against Crosby/Ovechkin to shut them down.

Did he even do that? Richards is a fantastic all around player, but Crosby/Ovechkin/Malkin/Stamkos (when around) shredded us. They have some of the highest PPG against the Flyers versus any other team. It's pretty obvious that Richards didn't do much 'shutting' down - ES or otherwise.

Instead of the Flyers playing a counter role to the elite stars (i.e., have a 'shutdown' guy) I think they're realizing the way to shut them down is to not let them have the puck.

They're gearing towards a more puck possession game - Simmonds, Talbot, Jagr, Voracek - and playing away from our own net.

Personally, I'm tired of everybody saying shutdown centers - you don't shut down players like Crosby by giving them the puck and trying to play good D - they're too smart for that and will adapt - and most likely score anyway. You just prevent them from getting the puck altogether. I'm not saying it'll work, but I like it. Make them play D instead of the other way around for a change.
Exactly, not shut them down, send out a line whose focus it is to cycle, hit, cycle, hit, cycle, hit. If you put in a goal, great, but not the point. Get the puck, chip it in, start a cycle, punish the D, punish the star player, skate off after 40 seconds. That is Flyer hockey. I want to see them PUNISH Crosby. Not skate with him. Put it along the boards in the oppositions end, hammer him when he gets the puck. Cycle it again. Hammer him when he gets the puck again.

Richards was supposed to be that guy. But, since he became a very good offensive center, his line was confusing. Was it a shutdown line? Or a scoring line? It would be Richards and two plugs, but Richie was still counted on to score, so you couldn't list it as a solid checking line.

Bring back the checking line. Put our top offensive players on 2 lines and make a third line of bruisers who can take the puck, chip it in and keep it in. Cycle, Cycle, Cycle.

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07-13-2011, 05:15 PM
  #823
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Holmgren Not Done With Philly Overhaul; Pronger Speaks
http://nhlhotstove.com/holmgren-not-...ronger-speaks/

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07-13-2011, 05:54 PM
  #824
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
You say that as if the third line is....om, better for him/Philly? I prefer to have a line that goes against the other teams Crosby/Ovechkin lines each shift. Last year, that was the Richards line. This year - Schenn? I don't like that. I say build your third line with a Talbot/Hartnell/Simmonds and let them cycle, let them hit and make life hell on the other teams best. Put Schenn on a top 2 line and let him play with great players like Carolina did with Skinner, or Tampa with Stamkos or Edmonton with Hall, etc (And yes, Schenn compares to those players. THE BEST PROSPECT WE HAVE HAD SINCE LINDROS!!!!). You put him on the third line in a grind role and prepare for comparisons to Tyler Seguin last year. Bruins put him in third/fourth line duty with unskilled players and were surprised he didn't succeed. I say put him with Giroux and lets see what hes got. If he isn't good enough, fine, send him to dominate the AHL until he is. But a third liner, that isn't who Brayden Schenn is.

Remember, this is the first top end prospect we have had in years. We gave up Mike Richards for this kid. I say, lets use him the right way.
I think you make some very good points. Let a skilled player play with skilled people. Asking Schenn to play any kind of a checking role really isn't fair to the kid.

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Old
07-13-2011, 06:17 PM
  #825
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
You say that as if the third line is....om, better for him/Philly? I prefer to have a line that goes against the other teams Crosby/Ovechkin lines each shift. Last year, that was the Richards line. This year - Schenn? I don't like that. I say build your third line with a Talbot/Hartnell/Simmonds and let them cycle, let them hit and make life hell on the other teams best. Put Schenn on a top 2 line and let him play with great players like Carolina did with Skinner, or Tampa with Stamkos or Edmonton with Hall, etc (And yes, Schenn compares to those players. THE BEST PROSPECT WE HAVE HAD SINCE LINDROS!!!!). You put him on the third line in a grind role and prepare for comparisons to Tyler Seguin last year. Bruins put him in third/fourth line duty with unskilled players and were surprised he didn't succeed. I say put him with Giroux and lets see what hes got. If he isn't good enough, fine, send him to dominate the AHL until he is. But a third liner, that isn't who Brayden Schenn is.

Remember, this is the first top end prospect we have had in years. We gave up Mike Richards for this kid. I say, lets use him the right way.
Because he'll never learn to develop his defensive game unless he is put in a situation where he is forced to. Briere is bad at defense because he never learned defense when he was developing. The Coyotes and Sabres basically just put him in a scoring role and he never needed to worry about defense.

Did starting JVR out on a checking line really hurt him in the long run? How about Giroux? Or Carter or Richards?

And when Seguin was in the lineup early in the season with the Bruins, he played on a line with Michael Ryder and Blake Wheeler, those aren't unskilled grinders. They are both guys with scoring ability. Seguin didn't work early on because the Bruins play a tough defensive system, that he was never used to playing. They could have stuck him out there and said, "whatever, just play you're game, don't worry about defense." But they want him to ultimately be a two-way forward that fits their system, so they forced him to learn it. It was painful at times, but he'll be better for it.

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