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Realigned!!! [3/7 update: CHI - COL - DAL - MIN - NSH - STL - WPG; NHLPA approves]

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07-09-2011, 06:50 PM
  #201
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Originally Posted by TaLoN View Post
The NHL is doing anything and everything in it's power to prevent Phoenix from moving... I don't see that philosophy changing anytime soon. They wouldn't just shrug and say KC here we come on a whim.
Oh I know, it was supposed to be a joke. But on that note, the NHL may be doing everything in its power to stay in Arizona, but Glendale is doing absolutely everything in its power, and a few things beyond that to get them out. The Goldwater Institute's extreme efforts couldn't possibly be related to the fact that they're led by the wife of one of the bigwigs for the Arizona Diamondbacks, who stand to greatly benefit if suddenly there was one less sport to compete with...

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07-09-2011, 07:17 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
Oh I know, it was supposed to be a joke. But on that note, the NHL may be doing everything in its power to stay in Arizona, but Glendale is doing absolutely everything in its power, and a few things beyond that to get them out. The Goldwater Institute's extreme efforts couldn't possibly be related to the fact that they're led by the wife of one of the bigwigs for the Arizona Diamondbacks, who stand to greatly benefit if suddenly there was one less sport to compete with...
Whether or not a group stands to gain from a verdict has no bearing on the validity of their legal arguments. The fact is, the deal in place is probably illegal under Arizona law, and either way it's tearing apart the small city's credit and financials to prop up an entirely unsustainable business model. I'm honestly surprised it took the city so long to lose confidence. I just hope Quebec can be ready for a team in time, because I would hate to see them miss their chance at a re-do.

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07-09-2011, 07:44 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by llamapalooza View Post
Whether or not a group stands to gain from a verdict has no bearing on the validity of their legal arguments. The fact is, the deal in place is probably illegal under Arizona law, and either way it's tearing apart the small city's credit and financials to prop up an entirely unsustainable business model. I'm honestly surprised it took the city so long to lose confidence. I just hope Quebec can be ready for a team in time, because I would hate to see them miss their chance at a re-do.
In many instances, the Goldwater Institute has been making threats when they could take action. If they were truly in the right, and they simply wanted the law to be obeyed, they would take action instead of just causing FUD. From what I've seen, their behavior has been intended to prevent any deal from occurring, regardless of the legality of the deal. Most importantly, in regards to the conflict of interest, the parties who could clearly gain from the departure of the Coyotes should have recused themselves, rather than becoming even more deeply involved.

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07-10-2011, 11:41 AM
  #204
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I stand corrected on Winnipeg. I really thought nationalism and traditional rivalries might trump travel/timezone concerns on that one. Glad to be wrong, as this would definitely be a boon to the Wild. Made for tv Heritage Classic up on Lake of the Woods. Draw center ice right down the US-Canadian border.
Well, there will always be those that will prefer to stay in a division with the Cannots, The Femes and the Coilers. Those rivalries do go back 30+ years. But at the same token, there are also many others that want to be in a division with Minnesota, simply because there has been a strong economical/tourism/trade relationship that has developed between Manitobans and Minnesotans over the last 20 years or so, with many Peggers coming down to the Twin Cities for various reasons and with economic development between Manitoba and Minnesota.

I simply HATE the Flames and have had to adopt the Oilers as my team since I live in this bloody city (which is currently under the worst mosquito infestation I have ever seen in a large urban setting in my entire life, and keep in mind I'm from Winnipeg!) and have little regard for the Canucks. I do love watching the Blackhawks play though, always have and always will (although that might change a little if we end up in the same division lol). And I will now enjoy watching the Wild play as well, and I think I've decided to adopt you guys as my second favorite team, gladly bumping the Oilers out of their recently acquired #2 spot (I will only cheer against you when they play my Jets of course), for no other reason than that I really like you guys

Let the games begin!

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07-10-2011, 12:16 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
In many instances, the Goldwater Institute has been making threats when they could take action. If they were truly in the right, and they simply wanted the law to be obeyed, they would take action instead of just causing FUD. From what I've seen, their behavior has been intended to prevent any deal from occurring, regardless of the legality of the deal. Most importantly, in regards to the conflict of interest, the parties who could clearly gain from the departure of the Coyotes should have recused themselves, rather than becoming even more deeply involved.
Threats are much cheaper than lawsuits, and honestly they shouldn't deter someone unless that person already realizes they'd lose in court.

The conflict of interest thing: I agree that there's a vested interest there, but as a private entity they have absolutely no obligation to recuse themselves. You can say they're being misleading about their motives, and I'll back you on that. But that's not illegal, nor does it affect the validity of their case; there would be no civil trials if you couldn't bring a case just because you stood to gain.

Anyway, back on topic: welcome aboard, Puckschmuck! Were you one of the many who made the trip down for the draft?

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07-10-2011, 01:14 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by llamapalooza View Post
Anyway, back on topic: welcome aboard, Puckschmuck! Were you one of the many who made the trip down for the draft?
Thanks!

No, stuck in Deadmonton. However, I am planning to catch a Jets game in what could possibly be the last year of the NHL in Arizona and maybe the Twin Cities as well time and money pending. But when I move back to Winnipeg, I'm hoping to catch a few more in Minnesota as well. And of course all this will depend on the new divisional alignment too.

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07-12-2011, 11:20 AM
  #207
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So, the Jets will play in the Central Division in 2012-2013 according to TSN.

Detroit will most likely be moved in the Eastern Conference.

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07-12-2011, 11:29 AM
  #208
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In a point of view I would love to see Detroit go to the east. But overall it would be weird, 5 original teams in east and basically you are taking away a big hockey market team that could help weak markets teams like dallas, nash and colombus.
I think Colombus going to east would make more sense, IMO.


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07-12-2011, 11:42 AM
  #209
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Originally Posted by Fel 96 View Post
So, the Jets will play in the Central Division in 2012-2013 according to TSN.

Detroit will most likely be moved in the Eastern Conference.
If a wholesale divisional re-alignment doesn't happen, that statement is wonked, considering that St. Paul is closer to the Central than Winnipeg. Also, considering that they would have to figure out which team moves into the SE...

If the 4 divisions happens, then yeah, that pretty much falls in line with everything else.

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07-12-2011, 12:00 PM
  #210
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Here's the link.

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07-12-2011, 12:07 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by bozak911 View Post
If a wholesale divisional re-alignment doesn't happen, that statement is wonked, considering that St. Paul is closer to the Central than Winnipeg. Also, considering that they would have to figure out which team moves into the SE...

If the 4 divisions happens, then yeah, that pretty much falls in line with everything else.
It's going to be the 4 divisions. So ours will be Chicago, Columbus, Dallas, Minnesota, Nashville, St Louis, and Winnipeg. Glad we don't have to face Detroit 6 times a year or whatever.

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07-12-2011, 12:28 PM
  #212
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It's going to be the 4 divisions. So ours will be Chicago, Columbus, Dallas, Minnesota, Nashville, St Louis, and Winnipeg. Glad we don't have to face Detroit 6 times a year or whatever.
I like this division, and I can see the Wild doing well against those teams. No Detroit or Vancouver helps a lot although we would still play Chicago.

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07-12-2011, 12:46 PM
  #213
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It's going to be the 4 divisions. So ours will be Chicago, Columbus, Dallas, Minnesota, Nashville, St Louis, and Winnipeg. Glad we don't have to face Detroit 6 times a year or whatever.
Am I the only one here who thinks that if we were going to be playing in that division this year that we would have a really good chance of winning it?

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07-12-2011, 12:50 PM
  #214
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I like this division, and I can see the Wild doing well against those teams. No Detroit or Vancouver helps a lot although we would still play Chicago.
Meh, Detroit is finally on a downswing anyway. If Winnipeg can build around Evander Kane, and Chicago can hash out their goaltending issues, this might be a pretty difficult division. St. Louis looks poised to make a jump and Columbus now has a first line center for Nash. Chicago has Toews and Kane, Minnesota will have Granlund and Koivu, CBJ has Nash and Carter, Winnipeg has E. Kane, St. Louis has all the pieces they obtained in the Johnson trade. Nashville is always a threat with their drafting.

As for teams we got away from, I'm more enthused about dodging Edmonton. So many years of high draft picks, and it doesn't look like they squandered them.

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07-12-2011, 01:03 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
It's going to be the 4 divisions. So ours will be Chicago, Columbus, Dallas, Minnesota, Nashville, St Louis, and Winnipeg. Glad we don't have to face Detroit 6 times a year or whatever.
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Originally Posted by Avder View Post
Am I the only one here who thinks that if we were going to be playing in that division this year that we would have a really good chance of winning it?
I think we'd have an almost sure shot at making the playoffs, but Chicago should finish better than us, and I think St. Louis and Columbus are probably pretty close to us this season. Nashville is always a threat, but I don't see Dallas or Winnipeg making the playoffs this year. I think we'd finish 3-5 in that division.

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07-12-2011, 01:55 PM
  #216
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Meh, Detroit is finally on a downswing anyway. If Winnipeg can build around Evander Kane, and Chicago can hash out their goaltending issues, this might be a pretty difficult division. St. Louis looks poised to make a jump and Columbus now has a first line center for Nash. Chicago has Toews and Kane, Minnesota will have Granlund and Koivu, CBJ has Nash and Carter, Winnipeg has E. Kane, St. Louis has all the pieces they obtained in the Johnson trade. Nashville is always a threat with their drafting.

As for teams we got away from, I'm more enthused about dodging Edmonton. So many years of high draft picks, and it doesn't look like they squandered them.
With the mayor of Glendale saying that they won't cover another year's losses of the Coyotes and no arena quite ready in QC, I think that potential move will affect the divisions. Seattle has been being mentioned more and more in relocation discussions now that Winnipeg has their team back. That is the only potential destination that wouldn't cause a major borqing of the theorized divisions...

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07-12-2011, 02:19 PM
  #217
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With the mayor of Glendale saying that they won't cover another year's losses of the Coyotes and no arena quite ready in QC, I think that potential move will affect the divisions. Seattle has been being mentioned more and more in relocation discussions now that Winnipeg has their team back. That is the only potential destination that wouldn't cause a major borqing of the theorized divisions...
KC wouldn't mess things up either. People are still obsessed with the idea of 15 "East" teams and 15 "West" teams, and I don't think that's necessary. We could have these divisions:

Northeast: DET, TOR, BUF, OTT, MTL, QC, PIT, BOS

Atlantic: TB, FLA, CAR, WAS, PHI, NJD, NYR, NYI

Central: WPG, MIN, CHI, STL, DAL, CBJ, NSH

Pacific: VAN, CGY, EDM, COL, SJS, LAK, ANA

A layout like this works well for realignment as the only region that's certain not to have PHX move there (if they relocate) is the Atlantic. SEA, KC, QC, and even HAM or Hartford would be easily resolved with this setup.

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07-12-2011, 02:30 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by bozak911 View Post
With the mayor of Glendale saying that they won't cover another year's losses of the Coyotes and no arena quite ready in QC, I think that potential move will affect the divisions. Seattle has been being mentioned more and more in relocation discussions now that Winnipeg has their team back. That is the only potential destination that wouldn't cause a major borqing of the theorized divisions...
If Quebec has no arena quite ready I would hate to think what position Seattle is in.

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07-12-2011, 03:03 PM
  #219
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I'd guess they NHL goes to Quebec City. I'm still not convinced KC is a viable market. That would push Detroit back west I'd bet, and one of Winnipeg or Dallas would have to go to the Pacific. And I'd be 99% sure that the NHL will keep 15 teams west and 15 teams East, unless there's league-wide re-seeding after the first round (which would make no sense).

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07-12-2011, 03:11 PM
  #220
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Quebec has a new arena in place for 2015 and I really don't think anyone in QC would complain about watching games at Colisée Pepsi for a few years until it's ready.

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07-12-2011, 03:15 PM
  #221
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In a point of view I would love to see Detroit go to the east. But overall it would be weird, 5 original teams in east and basically you are taking away a big hockey market team that could help weak markets teams like dallas, nash and colombus.
I think Colombus going to east would make more sense, IMO.
Wait, what?

Nashville and Dallas are strong markets. Well Nashville is starting to build a stronger market but Dallas isn't weak.

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07-12-2011, 03:15 PM
  #222
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Quote:
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Quebec has a new arena in place for 2015 and I really don't think anyone in QC would complain about watching games at Colisée Pepsi for a few years until it's ready.
Exactly.


But I guess with all the recent bickering, the project might start a little more late than expected.

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07-12-2011, 03:23 PM
  #223
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Nashville's a stronger market than Dallas by almost any metric.

Attendance? Nashville played to 94% capacity; Dallas to 81% capacity. And it's not like you can blame ticket prices: Dallas is dead last; Nashville's 17th.

Fel: I think that an actual team waiting to move in would probably convince some people to hurry things along on the arena.

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07-12-2011, 03:29 PM
  #224
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Quebec has a new arena in place for 2015 and I really don't think anyone in QC would complain about watching games at Colisée Pepsi for a few years until it's ready.
Quebec would take our prospect pool a couple years ago and ice them if it meant a NHL team. They're that desperate (not that I blame them...we were once in the same boat).

In the end though, it's not about which market is the best or worst. It just depends on having good ownership and an arena.

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07-12-2011, 03:35 PM
  #225
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Quebec would take our prospect pool a couple years ago and ice them if it meant a NHL team. They're that desperate (not that I blame them...we were once in the same boat).

In the end though, it's not about which market is the best or worst. It just depends on having good ownership and an arena.
Well, yes, but Seattle doesn't even have an arena in the planning stages, and I really doubt a team could successfully play out of Key Arena (hockey capacity 11,000) while they got that sorted out.

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