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Old
07-09-2011, 10:25 PM
  #151
NYRangers16
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If he truly wanted a trade to the leafs, just sign an offer sheet with them and force Tmpa's hand...that's how you know this rumor is false...makes no sense.

If he would actually sign an offer sheet he'd have 4 sitting on his agent's desk by the morning, including at least 2 for the max(Leafs and Flames). Obviously he is still intending on staying with Tampa.

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07-09-2011, 11:12 PM
  #152
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I'd trade anyone on this team for Stamkos. ANYONE.

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07-09-2011, 11:19 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by NYRangers16 View Post
If he truly wanted a trade to the leafs, just sign an offer sheet with them and force Tmpa's hand...that's how you know this rumor is false...makes no sense.

If he would actually sign an offer sheet he'd have 4 sitting on his agent's desk by the morning, including at least 2 for the max(Leafs and Flames). Obviously he is still intending on staying with Tampa.
thats not true at all. an offer sheet only forces tampa's hand if its for an insane amount that tb won't match. if he signs an offer sheet for a realistic amount tb matches it and keeps him

teams aren't making offer sheets because they know that the price it would take to get tb to not match is more than they want to pay

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Old
07-09-2011, 11:22 PM
  #154
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I'd trade anyone on this team for Stamkos. ANYONE.
Stamkos - Richards - Gaborik


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Old
07-10-2011, 12:44 AM
  #155
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Let's get ovechtrick and crosby while we're at it.

First line:

Ovechkin - Crosby - Stamkos

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Old
07-10-2011, 10:33 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by CM PUNK View Post
replace del zotto with staal...kreider with dubinsky and wolski with callahan and tb doesn't hang up LOL
When do GMs get full market value for disgruntled players? I'm not saying you could get him for Avery, Boyle and a 2nd round pick. But IF Stamkos was dead set on getting out of TB, I can guarantee the return would be less than Staal, Dubinsky AND Callahan. Remember, it was just a short while back that Heatley was traded for Milan Michálek, Jonathan Cheechoo and a second-round draft pick. That's hardly an equal return for a guy who had just averaged 40+ goals and 90+ points the previous 4 seasons. Yes, Stamkos is a better player...but the point remains the same...you never get fair market value when you need to move a player.

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Old
07-12-2011, 12:13 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
When do GMs get full market value for disgruntled players? I'm not saying you could get him for Avery, Boyle and a 2nd round pick. But IF Stamkos was dead set on getting out of TB, I can guarantee the return would be less than Staal, Dubinsky AND Callahan. Remember, it was just a short while back that Heatley was traded for Milan Michálek, Jonathan Cheechoo and a second-round draft pick. That's hardly an equal return for a guy who had just averaged 40+ goals and 90+ points the previous 4 seasons. Yes, Stamkos is a better player...but the point remains the same...you never get fair market value when you need to move a player.
How many teams will Stamkos invite into the after-market of potential suitors?
That is the question.
If it's the rest of the league, no holds barred, there will many competitive offers.
If SS says my list is just two or three teams, the shorter the list, the lower are those few lowball offers and nominal competitive offers to pay just enough to get him.

Stamkos
for
Stepan
Gaborik
Christian Thomas
Stacjer
Girardi
and choice of
M. Staal
or
McDonaugh + Sauer

would probably be basis of difficult but worthwhile overpayment (not including AA, Cally, Dubi).
Lightning would ship out deadwood or trade more expensive items (Gaborik) to highest bidder to maintain cap and financial risk acceptable, but would have flexible summer to decide how to do so.

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Old
07-12-2011, 12:18 PM
  #158
RidinwitdaKING
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
How many teams will Stamkos invite into the after-market of potential suitors?
That is the question.
If it's the rest of the league, no holds barred, there will many competitive offers.
If SS says my list is just two or three teams, the shorter the list, the lower are those few lowball offers and nominal competitive offers to pay just enough to get him.

Stamkos
for
Stepan
Gaborik
Christian Thomas
Stacjer
Girardi
and choice of
M. Staal
or
McDonaugh + Sauer

would probably be basis of difficult but worthwhile overpayment (not including AA, Cally, Dubi).
Lightning would ship out deadwood or trade more expensive items (Gaborik) to highest bidder to maintain cap and financial risk acceptable, but would have flexible summer to decide how to do so.
April Fools Day?

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Old
07-12-2011, 12:20 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by RichardsRngrs View Post
April Fools Day?
overpayment much? jeez..

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07-12-2011, 12:21 PM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
How many teams will Stamkos invite into the after-market of potential suitors?
That is the question.
If it's the rest of the league, no holds barred, there will many competitive offers.
If SS says my list is just two or three teams, the shorter the list, the lower are those few lowball offers and nominal competitive offers to pay just enough to get him.

Stamkos
for
Stepan
Gaborik
Christian Thomas
Stacjer
Girardi
and choice of
M. Staal
or
McDonaugh + Sauer

would probably be basis of difficult but worthwhile overpayment (not including AA, Cally, Dubi).
Lightning would ship out deadwood or trade more expensive items (Gaborik) to highest bidder to maintain cap and financial risk acceptable, but would have flexible summer to decide how to do so.
please....just give up trade proposals forever. It's not your strong suit.

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Old
07-12-2011, 12:34 PM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
How many teams will Stamkos invite into the after-market of potential suitors?
That is the question.
If it's the rest of the league, no holds barred, there will many competitive offers.
If SS says my list is just two or three teams, the shorter the list, the lower are those few lowball offers and nominal competitive offers to pay just enough to get him.

Stamkos
for
Stepan
Gaborik
Christian Thomas
Stacjer
Girardi
and choice of
M. Staal
or
McDonaugh + Sauer

would probably be basis of difficult but worthwhile overpayment (not including AA, Cally, Dubi).
Lightning would ship out deadwood or trade more expensive items (Gaborik) to highest bidder to maintain cap and financial risk acceptable, but would have flexible summer to decide how to do so.
Lindros laughs at this and hangs up.

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Old
07-12-2011, 01:25 PM
  #162
broadwayblue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
How many teams will Stamkos invite into the after-market of potential suitors?
That is the question.
If it's the rest of the league, no holds barred, there will many competitive offers.
If SS says my list is just two or three teams, the shorter the list, the lower are those few lowball offers and nominal competitive offers to pay just enough to get him.

Stamkos
for
Stepan
Gaborik
Christian Thomas
Stacjer
Girardi
and choice of
M. Staal
or
McDonaugh + Sauer

would probably be basis of difficult but worthwhile overpayment (not including AA, Cally, Dubi).
Lightning would ship out deadwood or trade more expensive items (Gaborik) to highest bidder to maintain cap and financial risk acceptable, but would have flexible summer to decide how to do so.
First of all that proposal is beyond ridiculous. But that aside, why on earth would an unhappy Steven Stamkos demand to be traded...and then further complicate matters by limiting the number of teams he would play for to 2 or 3? That makes no sense at all.

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Old
07-12-2011, 01:48 PM
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
How many teams will Stamkos invite into the after-market of potential suitors?
That is the question.
If it's the rest of the league, no holds barred, there will many competitive offers.
If SS says my list is just two or three teams, the shorter the list, the lower are those few lowball offers and nominal competitive offers to pay just enough to get him.

Stamkos
for
Stepan
Gaborik
Christian Thomas
Stacjer
Girardi
and choice of
M. Staal
or
McDonaugh + Sauer

would probably be basis of difficult but worthwhile overpayment (not including AA, Cally, Dubi).
Lightning would ship out deadwood or trade more expensive items (Gaborik) to highest bidder to maintain cap and financial risk acceptable, but would have flexible summer to decide how to do so.
The highlight of this trade is Stajcer being thrown into the mix before Girardi is listed.

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Old
07-12-2011, 02:39 PM
  #164
bernmeister
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
...why on earth would an unhappy Steven Stamkos demand to be traded...and then further complicate matters by limiting the number of teams he would play for to 2 or 3? ...
The title of the thread is "Stamkos offer sheet?".
The extrapolation of discussion has been he MAY not want to sign {with the Lightning}, and IF so, speculate.

No one is saying Stamkos has demanded a trade or is making unreasonable demands Stamkos himself has everyone else abuzz by simply not rushing to sign.

In line with the OP, is a question of whether or not he wants a short term deal to set up UFA somewhere other than TB sooner rather than later.

No club wants to sign him short term, however, though the Lightning COULD because they would not be surrendering assets to keep him.

The thought is enough $$$$$$$ front loaded might tempt Stamkos.

In response to that, TB might actually have to trade Stamkos IF the # is large enough, whether that be in excess of 7.5 m, or the max of 13.xm or whatever that league max is.

To effect a deal with TB, which a team can negotiate a long term deal w/SS making it worthwhile to give up substantial compensation, some substantial payment/overpayment of assets is likely to be in order. The Lightning is not going to gift wrap him for us free of charge.

IF Stamkos says I'll only play in ___________ (fill in the blank) the lower the number of teams designated, the less return TB can expect in return.

The return I suggested was maximum without giving up Richards, Lundqvist AA, Dubi, Cally, Kreider. It's the return you may have to go so far if Stamkos says: I've decided I'll play ANYWHERE except TB. This is not likely. If he decides to set up where he'll play, he likely has a short list, which may or may not include the Rangers, but absent a rejection of that, it is ok to speculate.

To answer your question more precisely,
As long as Stamkos is manipulating things, IF indeed it turns out that such is the case, then he may well say I have a short list of places I prefer to play.

Clarification:
OF COURSE, it would be nice if we didn't have the summer cap implications of Redden and the last bit of deadwood was gone and we could flip a couple of guys profitably and have enough room to make a play for Stamkos, including with a high(er) cap during the early years, so that we could just offer sheet the guy for a comparatively cheap four firsts.

However, setting aside that is not the status of the team at the moment, and Redden cannot be presumed to be jettisoned as easily as a Wolski, there is another consideration brought up in this thread: retaliation and poaching, thus mandating a trade as the only realistic means of acquisition (should Stamkos become available at all). {I expect Sather will get in all our RFAs; but other league GMs will be inclined not to play ball, and could look to poach at first opportunity.}

In sum, as I said in an earlier post, I think Stamkos is doing the NHLPA a favor and trying to push up the price to top dollar. I'm not aware of any reason why he would not actually sign with Tampa. The speculation addresses only the outside possibility that he might be dealt at all, for a ridiculous bounty, in lieu of 4 firsts, which would be required to get him pre-signed to an acceptable length contract to make such surrender of assets worthwhile.

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Old
07-12-2011, 02:43 PM
  #165
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Title edited. It seems this has become the everything Stamkos thread so we're better off just keeping it all in here.

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Old
07-12-2011, 02:46 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by NY Ranger86 View Post
overpayment much? jeez..
I call your bluff.
Assume the conditions of my last post.

Assume Stamkos wants more $$ than TBL can offer in the short/interemediary term (next 5 years). Assume he will be shopped.

Assume we must acquire via trade, because it is the only way we can negotiate a long term deal.

Assume we do not want to deal with poaching by other clubs, or any other de facto retaliation. In other words, assume we have to pay top dollar.

Assume further you prefer to keep Richards, Lundqvist AA, Dubi, Cally, Kreider.

Again paying top dollar, what do you offer for Stamkos?

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07-12-2011, 02:48 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by allstar3970 View Post
please....just give up trade proposals forever. It's not your strong suit.
Great minds do not always think alike.

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Old
07-12-2011, 02:51 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by BlueCollarBlueBlood View Post
Lindros laughs at this and hangs up.

But can you give a serious critique?

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Old
07-12-2011, 02:55 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Great minds do not always think alike.
Maybe its because one of the minds being spoken for is not really a great mind. Stamkos is the face of Tampa Bay and is perfectly happy, I don't see him going anywhere, the only reason there is talk like this is because his camp is trying to get as good of a contract as possible.

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Old
07-12-2011, 02:55 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by ColonialsHockey10 View Post
The highlight of this trade is Stajcer being thrown into the mix before Girardi is listed.
Girardi has good league-wide value, including to TBL.
However, it varies in degree from team to team, and he's more superfluous to a team of Hedman and co.

Stacjer is the kind of G prospect TBL on paper is interested in, if the price is right.

But not an intentional dis of DG, to all his loyalists.

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07-12-2011, 03:02 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by LyNX27 View Post
Maybe its because one of the minds being spoken for is not really a great mind. Stamkos is the face of Tampa Bay and is perfectly happy, I don't see him going anywhere, the only reason there is talk like this is because his camp is trying to get as good of a contract as possible.
You overlooked my post at #164
"In sum, as I said in an earlier post, I think Stamkos is doing the NHLPA a favor and trying to push up the price to top dollar. I'm not aware of any reason why he would not actually sign with Tampa. The speculation addresses only the outside possibility that he might be dealt at all, for a ridiculous bounty, in lieu of 4 firsts, which would be required to get him pre-signed to an acceptable length contract to make such surrender of assets worthwhile."

I agree with your conclusion:
Stamkos is the face of Tampa Bay and is perfectly happy, I don't see him going anywhere, the only reason there is talk like this is because his camp is trying to get as good of a contract as possible.

My post as to a deal was simply as to IF a deal were to be a reality anytime soon, then for the rationale suggested, some variation on that deal would be more likely (as opposed to giving up Richards, Hank, AA... etc.).

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07-12-2011, 03:07 PM
  #172
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Bern, what is it you exactly smoke before you make incredible terrible and grandiose proposals?

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Old
07-12-2011, 03:12 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post

Assume further you prefer to keep Richards, Lundqvist AA, Dubi, Cally, Kreider.
Nearly all of those guys are on the table if you are talking about dealing for a 21 year old former first overall pick who has exceeded his hype. I'd prefer to keep Hank, but honestly if you are talking about Stamkos everyone has to be in play.

That said, I'd actually rather offer sheet him and pay the 4 first rounders than deal a huge part of our core to get him.

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Old
07-12-2011, 03:41 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
You overlooked my post at #164
"In sum, as I said in an earlier post, I think Stamkos is doing the NHLPA a favor and trying to push up the price to top dollar. I'm not aware of any reason why he would not actually sign with Tampa. The speculation addresses only the outside possibility that he might be dealt at all, for a ridiculous bounty, in lieu of 4 firsts, which would be required to get him pre-signed to an acceptable length contract to make such surrender of assets worthwhile."

I agree with your conclusion:
Stamkos is the face of Tampa Bay and is perfectly happy, I don't see him going anywhere, the only reason there is talk like this is because his camp is trying to get as good of a contract as possible.

My post as to a deal was simply as to IF a deal were to be a reality anytime soon, then for the rationale suggested, some variation on that deal would be more likely (as opposed to giving up Richards, Hank, AA... etc.).
So, your basically doing a mash up of Devils Advocate / Trollface?

Because rarely is one star traded for about 10 different pieces with decent value, generally they try to get the 2nd best player in the trade possible.

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Old
07-12-2011, 11:34 PM
  #175
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Quick question...

If a team offers a player an offer sheet and and the player wants to play for that team for that contract(say Stammer gets offered a contract from another team) but the original team(TBL in this case) matches, does the player have to sign with his original club or can he choose?

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