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Jagr expectations?

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Old
07-10-2011, 09:49 AM
  #76
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Anything more than Leino's production is a win.

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07-10-2011, 10:36 AM
  #77
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15 points before he gets his back hurt for lifting both stick and puck at the same time.

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07-10-2011, 11:42 AM
  #78
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I think Jagr will be in the top 10 in scoring.......

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07-10-2011, 12:48 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luggstah View Post
15 points before he gets his back hurt for lifting both stick and puck at the same time.
What!?


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07-10-2011, 02:33 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by flyersjamminontheone View Post
Jagr expectations ?
I expect this time next year were all *****ing how much we paid for this guy.

Not often does a team take on a aged "Superstar" and have it pay off.

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07-10-2011, 02:45 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy D View Post
I expect this time next year were all *****ing how much we paid for this guy.

Not often does a team take on a aged "Superstar" and have it pay off.

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07-11-2011, 03:02 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Tommy D View Post
I expect this time next year were all *****ing how much we paid for this guy.

Not often does a team take on a aged "Superstar" and have it pay off.
Basically I agree.

I am hopeful though that Jagr is an exception to the "aged superstar" and can find a home next to Briere or Giroux.

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

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07-11-2011, 06:40 AM
  #83
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I expect Jagr to have 60-70 points (20 goals).

At the same time, I dont think points will be the most important Jagr contribution to the team...

1) I expect him to be a great mentor for Voracek (and not only him). Voracek has allready expressed his excitement about playing on the same team with JJ.
2) More space on the ice for his linemates. Even mediocre players started to shine next to JJ (Kip Miller, Hrdnina, Cervenka last year in Omsk etc.).
3) JJ work attitude - I guess it will be very beneficial for other players to see how 39 years old "daddy" can practise.

"It was a great pleasure to work with him" - Anatolij Bardin, Avantgard Omsk boss.

"It's a great professional. It was amazing to watch how he adds in the training sessions, grind and keep working on himself. We are grateful for the seasons that he played with us." Anatolij Bardin from the same today´s article ( http://hokej.idnes.cz/omsk-jagrovi-o...725_evropa_lge ).

I expect him also to be much better in PO than regular season.

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07-11-2011, 08:47 AM
  #84
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This might have been already discussed but here is Jagr's take on the NHL and KHL:

Quote:
“It’s much harder to become the best scorer in Russia than NHL. The rinks are much bigger here and one really has to skate a lot. In the NHL, once you get by one person, you have a chance to score. And here? You can get around one defender, but you still have about 20 meters to go. Everyone can skate very well here. I would say, even better than in the NHL. You can’t outrun anyone, really.”

“I spend a lot of time on the ice and in the gym now. I know that I will have to work a lot. Training is much harder in Russia than in the NHL. I would not want people to laugh at me at the first skating session. It’s very important to me not to fall below my personal level even in training.”
I personally think the time spent in the KHL will have healed his body and he has far less wear and tear than any player his age or even players in their mid 30's. Jagr's game is more suited for the NHL than the KHL anyways. His great cycling skills were seldom used in the KHL. He had to learn to play the game differenty and was still a PPG player in a league that is notoriously known for being low scoring. That shows that Jagr can adapt to different styles of game and he has shown the ability to do what it takes to be dominant in different styles. The same league saw guys like Kovalchuk (who was 22) score far less than PPG in the KHL / RSL back in 2004-05 despite having PPG the previous year in the NHL and then scoring 52 goals the following year. Ovechkin also (yes he was 19 but would be 20 when he scored 52 goals in the NHL the following year) was far below the PPG mark with 27 pts in 37 games.

You guys should go check out the RSL/ KHL stats back in 2004-05 and see how so many superstar players struggled mightly there and then had great seasons the following year in the NHL.

Also this whole argument of Jagr having " lost a step or two" is rather premature. He looked slow in 2007-08 but that was 2007-08. I think the KHL game has made Jagr work on his speed and he will be a faster player than he was 3 years ago just for the fact the KHL rinks are bigger and that he had to shed 15-20 lbs which will only help with his speed:

Quote:
"I think after three years in Russia, I'm going to be a better player than I was before I left. I know that. I found out during the lockout when I played the whole year in Russia and I came back [to the NHL] and I had probably my best year in New York," Jagr said. "The skating on the big ice [in the KHL], the practices, it's not easy to play there. You practice a lot harder than in the NHL. On the big ice, you have to skate; I played a lot on the big ice, sometimes I play on two lines. If I decided to come back [to the NHL], I think I would be a better player than before I left."
Also it wasn't only against the USA at the Worlds that Jagr displayed great skill. Check out this goal against Russia, it's vintage Jagr. BTW where is that lack of speed and "losing a step" in this video? I don't see it.



Last edited by livewell68: 07-11-2011 at 10:50 AM.
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07-11-2011, 11:14 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
Also it wasn't only against the USA at the Worlds that Jagr displayed great skill. Check out this goal against Russia, it's vintage Jagr. BTW where is that lack of speed and "losing a step" in this video? I don't see it.
It's the Worlds, it doesn't count. Only inferior players participate in this tournament. Look at that clown with #8, he can barely skate with the 60 years old Jágr.

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07-11-2011, 11:22 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Rexor View Post
It's the Worlds, it doesn't count. Only inferior players participate in this tournament. Look at that clown with #8, he can barely skate with the 60 years old Jágr.
It's ok Rexor. With the low expectations that people have of Jagr, when he dominates it will only surprise them.

I have watched enough games in the KHL to know at least one thing, Jagr is not as slow people think he is. In fact I have watched about 25 games in the KHL of his in the last 3 years and he is (and I can say with 100% conviction) faster than he was before he left. This 39 year old version of Jagr is faster than anything we've seen of him after he left Pittsburgh.

I think people will be shocked when Jagr pots 30 + goals and is a PPG player.

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07-11-2011, 11:30 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Rexor View Post
It's the Worlds, it doesn't count. Only inferior players participate in this tournament. Look at that clown with #8, he can barely skate with the 60 years old Jágr.
I mean, #8 isn't exactly known for his ferocious defensive play.

But no, I really think Jagr will surprise a lot of people with production. He has always kept good care of himself, and his legs are as strong as it gets.

Will he be a league leader? Doubtful...but I wouldn't be surprised if he puts up 60+.

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07-11-2011, 11:33 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
I mean, #8 isn't exactly known for his ferocious defensive play.

But no, I really think Jagr will surprise a lot of people with production. He has always kept good care of himself, and his legs are as strong as it gets.

Will he be a league leader? Doubtful...but I wouldn't be surprised if he puts up 60+.
I agree with you. About the Ovechkin comment. Jagr apparently never back checks either but at the Worlds he was constantly backchecking and playing defense (although he's not the best at it LOL). It is quite obvious just by looking at the goal. It is Jagr who starts the rush by taking the puck off the player on the boards in his own zone and passing it on.

I think Jagr still has what it takes to be a top 10 scorer in the league (points wise).


Last edited by livewell68: 07-11-2011 at 11:54 AM.
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07-11-2011, 06:17 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by flyersjamminontheone View Post
How many goals does everybody think old balls is good for? Is at least 25 reasonable?
i expect him to be like teemu last year (80 pts 73 gamesplayed )

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07-11-2011, 06:27 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by luggstah View Post
15 points before he gets his back hurt for lifting both stick and puck at the same time.
You have him confused with Lemieux?

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Old
07-12-2011, 08:44 AM
  #91
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I guess no one wants to discuss how Jagr will do eh?

Maybe too many people have unrealistically low expectations of him?


Last edited by livewell68: 07-12-2011 at 08:59 AM.
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07-12-2011, 12:14 PM
  #92
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i have a feeling he will eclipse 100. I honestly think he can stay healthy, he is so huge it will be hard for him to get knocked down. He knows people will be gunning for him like Ovechkin did so he will be prepared and be okay. If the flyers can manage to get a lot of PPs, you could easily see Jagr kill it there. He is still an AWESOME passer and has amazing vision, so even if his shot leaves he will still be able to setup others.

There is a reason he came to Philly, and i think it was to prove to everyone that he can still be the best in the world. I understand him, he knows that he is one of the best and this team was perfect for him to display his awesome skills.

If all goes well, and he puts up over 101 points this season, he would have 1700 points. He COULD come back in 2012 and put up only 23 points and he will pass Mario on the all time points leader and put himself at #7. All he needs is 123 points in two seasons to pass Mario.. is this what he wants? It could be as easy as 1.. 2... 3!

Reasons on why he can achieve over 100: A happy Jagr with players he likes is a motivated Jagr. Look at the Rangers when he scored 125, he had his buddies around him. Once the Rangers focused on those scrubs Drury and Gomez ($14million a year LOL), they stopped focusing on Jagr for some unknown reason. He could have retirerd as a Rangers, just like Gretzky and Messier did.. how amazing would that have been? You could tell that it was a horrible move by the rangers and Jagr felt hurt and promised the KHL that he would come over.

Also he LOVES helping young players out. His teammate on the KHL that died was a future rangers super star that he was mentoring. He will be AWESOME help to your young players, especially the czech kid.


Last edited by jagrgodr: 07-12-2011 at 12:21 PM.
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07-12-2011, 12:36 PM
  #93
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i'm not expecting jagr to produce like he used to, but i think his presence will be nothing but good for young guys like giroux and jvr. kinda hard to argue against that, IMO. did we overpay? time will tell.

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07-12-2011, 01:18 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by jagrgodr View Post
i have a feeling he will eclipse 100. I honestly think he can stay healthy, he is so huge it will be hard for him to get knocked down. He knows people will be gunning for him like Ovechkin did so he will be prepared and be okay. If the flyers can manage to get a lot of PPs, you could easily see Jagr kill it there. He is still an AWESOME passer and has amazing vision, so even if his shot leaves he will still be able to setup others.

There is a reason he came to Philly, and i think it was to prove to everyone that he can still be the best in the world. I understand him, he knows that he is one of the best and this team was perfect for him to display his awesome skills.

If all goes well, and he puts up over 101 points this season, he would have 1700 points. He COULD come back in 2012 and put up only 23 points and he will pass Mario on the all time points leader and put himself at #7. All he needs is 123 points in two seasons to pass Mario.. is this what he wants? It could be as easy as 1.. 2... 3!

Reasons on why he can achieve over 100: A happy Jagr with players he likes is a motivated Jagr. Look at the Rangers when he scored 125, he had his buddies around him. Once the Rangers focused on those scrubs Drury and Gomez ($14million a year LOL), they stopped focusing on Jagr for some unknown reason. He could have retirerd as a Rangers, just like Gretzky and Messier did.. how amazing would that have been? You could tell that it was a horrible move by the rangers and Jagr felt hurt and promised the KHL that he would come over.

Also he LOVES helping young players out. His teammate on the KHL that died was a future rangers super star that he was mentoring. He will be AWESOME help to your young players, especially the czech kid.
We're being unrealistic and crazy to think Jagr can still score 100 Pts.

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07-12-2011, 02:07 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
I guess no one wants to discuss how Jagr will do eh?

Maybe too many people have unrealistically low expectations of him?
No, we just agree with you...

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07-12-2011, 02:17 PM
  #96
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No, we just agree with you...
Agreeing with my actual expectations or when I'm being sarcastic? lol

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07-12-2011, 05:43 PM
  #97
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We're being unrealistic and crazy to think Jagr can still score 100 Pts.
I think it's a bit unrealistic to expect him to score 100+ points. Sure, he can, but that's not probable. Even if he played with Crosby and/or Malkin, it would be in the upper range of his possible production.

Still, it does seem like many are underestimating his abilities, even as he approaches age 40. Those thinking he will score less than 50 points (if healthy) must not have much respect for him, because there's no way he's coming back to the NHL after a three year absence to score 50 points or less.

Things to remember when assessing his upcoming season:

- He's never scored less than 57 points in 17 NHL seasons, and that was an 18 y/o rookie with very limited playing time. Aside from that his low seasons were 69 in his second season and 71 in his last season three years ago.

- His KHL production did not suffer a significant decline during his three seasons in Omsk.

- He scored 71 points in his previous NHL season, while playing with a center (Gomez) that didn't mesh well with his style before ending up on a line with a promising rookie (Dubinsky) and an old friend (Straka) who was only staying in the NHL to play with Jagr.

- This is the first time he's actually been able to choose the NHL team for which he will play. Again, I don't think he's coming back to the NHL after three years to choose to embarrass himself.

- Other great players of similar age (late 30's or older) and somewhat similar ability have put up very good seasons recently:

Lidstrom has averaged 60 points from age 37-40, including 62 last season.

Sakic hit 87 and 100 points at ages 36/37 and had 52 points in 59 games during his last two injury-filled campaigns at ages 38/39.

Gretzky scored 97, 90 and 62 points at ages 36-38 with a bad back.

Selanne was 35 before playing a game after the lockout and has scored 389 points in 380 games at ages 35-40, including 80 points in 73 games last season.

Lemieux scored 153 points in 127 games from ages 36-40, which doesn't include his marvelous 2001 season with Jagr.

Messier scored (or was on pace for) 60+ points from ages 37-40.

Oates scored 82 and 78 points at ages 38/39.

Other examples of players scoring at a 60+ point pace for more than one season in their late 30's include Alfredsson, Francis, Hull, Shanahan, Recchi and Brind'Amour.

Realistically, barring significant injury, I would expect:

Minimum of 60 points. Anything less and he probably leaves the NHL for good, except possibly to give it one last run on a team he thinks has a very good chance at a Cup. I would expect something in the range of 20-25 goals and 65-75 points. If he's healthy (not just playing every game... he will play thru most injuries) and has great chemistry with his linemates from the start, then who knows, 30 goals and 90 points are not impossible. Much more than that in such a competitive and low-scoring league would be truly incredible from a player who has been out of the league for three seasons and will turn 40 during this season while playing with new teammates.

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07-12-2011, 09:16 PM
  #98
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Do people really think that Teemu Selanne is a better hockey player than Jagr? I mean i guess it is a close discussion, but i think Jagr is better.

Selanne: 1.06ppg
Jagr: 1.25ppg

Selanne: 41 years old
Jagr: 39 years old

I guess you can argue that Teemu has better team mates but i don't know about that ( i rarely watch west coast games, let alone anaheim games..) so someone will have to school me on that. But based on Teemu being 2 years older and producing OVER a point per game last year, to me, it's easy to see how Jagr could easily get 1.0 ppg or up to his season average, 1.25 at 80 games: 100 points. I CALL 100 POINTS.

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07-12-2011, 10:31 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by jagrgodr View Post
Do people really think that Teemu Selanne is a better hockey player than Jagr? I mean i guess it is a close discussion, but i think Jagr is better.

Selanne: 1.06ppg
Jagr: 1.25ppg

Selanne: 41 years old
Jagr: 39 years old

I guess you can argue that Teemu has better team mates but i don't know about that ( i rarely watch west coast games, let alone anaheim games..) so someone will have to school me on that. But based on Teemu being 2 years older and producing OVER a point per game last year, to me, it's easy to see how Jagr could easily get 1.0 ppg or up to his season average, 1.25 at 80 games: 100 points. I CALL 100 POINTS.
There's not that much difference between 39 and 41. Their career PPG averages are basically irrelevant as well. I don't know if Teemu's teammates are better, but Anaheim's forwards are likely as good or better than Philadelphia's current forwards. More importantly is the continuity that Selanne has had with Anaheim and many of his teammates. Still, to a large degree in Jagr's case I think it has less to do with how good his linemates are and more to do with how well their styles complement his. Also, Anaheim has had a very good power play the past three seasons, to which Selanne was been a big contributor and from which he also has benefited. Philadelphia had a very good power play recently, until last season. If Jagr can get the power play back to previous form for the Flyers, then he could surpass Selanne's recent performance, otherwise I am doubtful that he can do so. Finally, it's not only a matter of what Jagr could/can do... but what he will do, which likely includes saving himself a bit for the playoffs. Even at age 40, he will be a focal point for the opposition and take a lot of punishment, so he has to leave something in the tank for spring.

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07-13-2011, 12:09 AM
  #100
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Agreeing with my actual expectations or when I'm being sarcastic? lol
Both!

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