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Would Weber get us Stamkos?

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Old
07-11-2011, 04:48 AM
  #26
JawandaPuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave is a killer View Post
Erat - Legwand - Stamkos
Suter - Weber
Lindback

Filthy starting lineup
Are you implying something along the lines of Rinne for Stamkos?

EDIT: Oh, I guess you are: http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=944243

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07-11-2011, 07:51 AM
  #27
RaiderDoug
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We'd need to add significant pieces to Weber to get Stamkos.

Rinne won't come close to getting Stamkos - goalies are fickle. Unless you're talking about Brodeur in his prime, you really don't ever know what you're going to get with a goaltender. IMHO, that why the value of goaltenders are low as UFAs and on the trade market. And considering the history of goaltenders who leave Nashville's system and coaching, (Ellis flop, Mason flop, Vokoun only solid), Tampa won't touch that with a 10' pole.

Weber would be the start of a package that could do it, but Stamkos's value is probably just below that of an Ovechkin/Crosby. As rare as guys like Weber are, a guy like Stamkos comes along even less often. We'd be in a bidding war with every team in the league.

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07-11-2011, 09:42 AM
  #28
Seth Lake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
We'd need to add significant pieces to Weber to get Stamkos.

Rinne won't come close to getting Stamkos - goalies are fickle. Unless you're talking about Brodeur in his prime, you really don't ever know what you're going to get with a goaltender. IMHO, that why the value of goaltenders are low as UFAs and on the trade market. And considering the history of goaltenders who leave Nashville's system and coaching, (Ellis flop, Mason flop, Vokoun only solid), Tampa won't touch that with a 10' pole.

Weber would be the start of a package that could do it, but Stamkos's value is probably just below that of an Ovechkin/Crosby. As rare as guys like Weber are, a guy like Stamkos comes along even less often. We'd be in a bidding war with every team in the league.
I'd actually do Suter and Colin Wilson for Stamkos and Brett Clark.

Suter and Clark are UFA at season's end and effectively replace each other in terms of D and Wilson gives Tampa a young offensive player to fit into their system and cushion the blow of losing Stamkos. Suter would be an incredible fit in Boucher's system and Stamkos in ours.

A win-win...

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07-11-2011, 10:03 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by SLake View Post
I'd actually do Suter and Colin Wilson for Stamkos and Brett Clark.

Suter and Clark are UFA at season's end and effectively replace each other in terms of D and Wilson gives Tampa a young offensive player to fit into their system and cushion the blow of losing Stamkos. Suter would be an incredible fit in Boucher's system and Stamkos in ours.

A win-win...
That's my idea of what would nab Stamkos. I think TB fans would balk at the proposal as Suter is perpetually undervalued by NHL fans, but that's a good prospect and a top 5 Dman for Stamkos and Clark.

If I'm Tampa, I would do everything possible to avoid trading Stamkos. But I question the intelligence of having 4 forwards signed to $30M/yr. It just seems like a concentrated investment for a midlevel team. Suter is likely a cheaper option for Tampa than Stamkos and would diversify that portfolio.

I would hate to trade Stamkos, but I'm not sure they have a lot of options unless they are content with 3 players (excluding Malone) signed for another 5 years at 24M annually. But Stamkos stands out as the best trade chip.

Lecavalier is almost untradeable. Cap teams will be afraid of the cap hit and non cap teams will be afraid of his $50M in salary owed over the next 5 years. And that's a lot of many/cap space to stomach for a player that, outside of two great seasons, is a 25/30g, 70pt player.

Outside of Stamkos, Malone and St. Louis are nice trade chips. But it seems crazy to get rid of St. Louis who is a ppg player on a 2nd liner contract. He's only had one year below 80 points since the year before the lockout. He's also been a PPG playoff guy too, which further inflates his value relative to his $5.6M contract.

Malone stands out as the most obvious trade piece. But his contract only grants temporary relief as after next year, his salary drops to $3M or less for the final 3 years of the deal. So it's not huge savings. But if I'm Tampa, he's the guy I'm looking to unload. He provides a valuable element to them, but I think his numbers are significantly improved by the quality of his linemates and the opportunities he receives on that team. I think he's a modified version of what NBA circles call "a looter in a riot." He gets points, but so would almost anyone in that position.

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Old
07-11-2011, 10:14 AM
  #30
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While he is one of the best, I just don't see a UFA-to-be Suter being enough to land Stamkos. Suter + Wilson for Stamkos alone...maybe, but I still think we add a first. If Stammer is indeed on the block, there will be about 10-15 teams (those who have space) scrambling to put together an insane package.

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07-11-2011, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlantaWhaler View Post
While he is one of the best, I just don't see a UFA-to-be Suter being enough to land Stamkos. Suter + Wilson for Stamkos alone...maybe, but I still think we add a first. If Stammer is indeed on the block, there will be about 10-15 teams (those who have space) scrambling to put together an insane package.
I think before this deal with Suter as the main piece from us gets done there would have to be an understanding between Yzerman and Suters agent that he would agree to an extension. I dont think adding provisional picks in case he doesnt extend would be enough

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07-11-2011, 11:08 AM
  #32
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I guess I just don't understand why Tampa would consider moving Stamkos. I also question the value of Stamkos playing away from St. Louis.

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07-11-2011, 11:24 AM
  #33
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I agree that Stammer likely stays in Tampa, but I think he would look pretty good on a line with SK

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07-11-2011, 11:50 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinOneel View Post
I guess I just don't understand why Tampa would consider moving Stamkos. I also question the value of Stamkos playing away from St. Louis.
Who does he normally play with? In the game I saw in the regular season, he played with Malone and Gagne and Lacavalier played with St. Louis and Purcell. On the PP, St. Louis and Stamkos were together, but not at ES.

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07-11-2011, 12:03 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
I think it's equal value but I think Stamkos's disappearing act for the back half of the season is a concern and I think he benefits from playing with Martin St. Louis. I think if you take MSL away, he's not as dynamic a player and I'm not sure if we have anyone that he can play with that makes him that dynamic. Possibly SK would be a good match with him since he's a great passer/playmaker.

I would rather go add a guy like Parise, Perry, Getlaf or Nash if we're going to trade Weber or Suter. They're all proven players over time.
I agree with you Parise would be a better fit than Stamkos with factors included. That Parise is used to playing in defensive style mode team. Tampa is more offensive minded. How much will Trotz system will hamper a Stamkos style of play. New Jersey would value defense more than Tampa even they could use a Suter badly. As far as Stamkos disappearing act I read where some think it had to do with the contract status and when negioations broke off and it affected his play and the fact that MSL and Lecavalier does affect how teams defend lines

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07-12-2011, 05:13 PM
  #36
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So here comes a crazy thought. Why even give up Weber to get Stamkos? Why not give him an offer sheet. We have the space to sign him. We have the picks. I think with our farm system and the way Poile drafts, we could survive a few years without a number 1 pick. I wouldn't offer Stamkos money that would require 4 1st's but what if had to give up two firsts, a second and a third to land Stamkos? Is that worse than what we would have to give up in a trade or is that fair value and we'd have to hope that our farm continues to feed players to the pros. All of a sudden we'd have our top 3 in addition to having a bonafide sniper. Add Radulov back possibly next season and then we've got two pure snipers. I think if Rads would come back, we can then absorb the loss of the draft picks in addition to having a healthier franchise because we'd be filling our barn because people would come to see us more than ever.

Sure this goes against everything Poile is, quiet, doesn't ruffle feathers, does the right thing and is patient and keeps his draft picks but this would be a bold move for sure. Would it hurt his standing with other GM's in the future in trying to make deals is the other component of a deal like this.

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07-12-2011, 05:28 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
So here comes a crazy thought. Why even give up Weber to get Stamkos? Why not give him an offer sheet. We have the space to sign him. We have the picks. I think with our farm system and the way Poile drafts, we could survive a few years without a number 1 pick. I wouldn't offer Stamkos money that would require 4 1st's but what if had to give up two firsts, a second and a third to land Stamkos? Is that worse than what we would have to give up in a trade or is that fair value and we'd have to hope that our farm continues to feed players to the pros. All of a sudden we'd have our top 3 in addition to having a bonafide sniper. Add Radulov back possibly next season and then we've got two pure snipers. I think if Rads would come back, we can then absorb the loss of the draft picks in addition to having a healthier franchise because we'd be filling our barn because people would come to see us more than ever.

Sure this goes against everything Poile is, quiet, doesn't ruffle feathers, does the right thing and is patient and keeps his draft picks but this would be a bold move for sure. Would it hurt his standing with other GM's in the future in trying to make deals is the other component of a deal like this.
Doesn't Stamkos want in the neighborhood of 9ml per year?

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07-12-2011, 05:31 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by roseyc View Post
Doesn't Stamkos want in the neighborhood of 9ml per year?
LOL. He isn't worth that money. If St. Louis was coming with him I'd say maybe but there are only 2 or 3 guys worth that and he isn't one of them.

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07-12-2011, 05:50 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
LOL. He isn't worth that money. If St. Louis was coming with him I'd say maybe but there are only 2 or 3 guys worth that and he isn't one of them.
Ovechkin makes 9 and Crosby and Malkin make 8 and Datsyuk makes 6.7 Stamkos is worth what? Stamkos had a 50 and 45 goals season the last 2 years


Last edited by roseyc: 07-12-2011 at 06:46 PM.
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Old
07-12-2011, 07:47 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roseyc View Post
Ovechkin makes 9 and Crosby and Malkin make 8 and Datsyuk makes 6.7 Stamkos is worth what? Stamkos had a 50 and 45 goals season the last 2 years
Ovechkin had two 100+ pts seasons and one 90+ pts season before signing his deal. Crosby had two 100+ pt seasons and one 70+ pt in season in just over 50 games (53 I believe). Datsyuk had been in the league for five or six seasons before signing his deal with a $6.7m cap hit. Malkin also had two 100+ pt seasons and one with over 80 pts before signing his deal.

Stamkos has yet to break 100pts. He might get a contract comparable to the big three (87, 71, and 8), but I don't think he's worth as much as those guys. He's scored over 50 goals once in three seasons, and has broken the 90 pt plateau twice. Both of those are impressive feats. There are still questions of whether or not he can produce at the same rate without a Martin St. Louis-type player beside him for at least PP time. I'd say he should get somewhere in the $7m range (cap hit) with maybe a season or two at the beginning of the deal around $9m. That's if the contract is front loaded.

Personally, I think Stammer should look for a 2-3 yr deal at a reasonable cap hit of $6.5m, improve on his numbers (because I think he will), and then look for a bigger pay day. He has plenty of time before he hits his prime.

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